Art: Evin, elven girl

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  1. #1
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    Evin, elven girl

    I really should post here more often.
    I would love feedback on the colours and genereal impression. You know, trying to improve and be m4d 1337 :p

    cheers!
    /Alice

    Evin, elven girl
    details at:
    http://www.heybaberiba.com/images/176.jpg

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    nicely done but it seems as if her hair your eyes done even see it it blends in and something odd about her face like its not joined onto her next and a little out of place or something... but very well done

    -a few seconds later! AHA that's it!!! her jaw seems a little low

    O_o *tweak*
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    I like her face but I agree about her hairline, I find it too low and too blended into the forhead.

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    Guess thats a matter of personal taste...
    Thanks for the comments tho!
    No thoughts on the colours?

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    I think what they're trying to say is that it appears the hairline goes right up to her eyebrow.

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    My first impression says that you worked hard on the face. (The reflected light on that upper lip is a nice touch!) Maybe used reference. Something about were the jawline and neck meet seems wrong though to me . . . Like it is too sharp or something? However, compared to the face, everything outside of it seems to have been carelessly done. Or maybe no reference? The shirt, hair and body are not as convincing as the rest of the peice. They are not subject to the same lighting either. . . . As far as color harmony goes (I am by no means the expert on light and color) I dig it. Nice execution of an analogous scheme, and the overall saturation level of the piece seems to be balanced. Nice work!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowlin
    I think what they're trying to say is that it appears the hairline goes right up to her eyebrow.
    That is true, but its not a human, things can look different on a fantasy creature. The greenish tint is ment to go so far down to make a difference to her red cheeks.

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    There are a bunch of things I really like in this, and a bunch that bug me. Please excuse my quick and dirty paintover. Here's what I did:
    Lowered and shrank the face.
    Shrank the mouth slightly.
    Rotated the left eye slightly, and moved the pupil to correct the gaze.
    Lowered and rotated her ear.
    Trimmed in the shape of her jaw.
    Shifted most of her hair towards yellow so it doesn't look like it's two different colors, and defined it from the background a little more.
    Cropped the bottom to improve the composition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Indigo
    My first impression says that you worked hard on the face. (The reflected light on that upper lip is a nice touch!) Maybe used reference. Something about were the jawline and neck meet seems wrong though to me . . . Like it is too sharp or something? However, compared to the face, everything outside of it seems to have been carelessly done. Or maybe no reference? The shirt, hair and body are not as convincing as the rest of the peice. They are not subject to the same lighting either. . . . As far as color harmony goes (I am by no means the expert on light and color) I dig it. Nice execution of an analogous scheme, and the overall saturation level of the piece seems to be balanced. Nice work!

    Well, Im not arguing over what your saying here. I just wonder...
    Thing is, loads of people focus on the essencials when drawing faces, ofcourse I have been looking at Linda Bergkvists work now and then and she has a fantastique way of blurring the non essentials.
    Your thoughts that the rest of the portrait, everything but the face has had less love, is it cause its your personal taste that everything should be detailed or is it cause I have not detailed it just enough to get away with it?

    I have a blurrline right now that goes from the ear and inwards in the picture, should I maybe move it back or towards the camera?

    As for reference, the picture is inspired by a photo of a girl named Evin but its not a reference or copy in any way as she is not an elf And mostely, colours are verry different. I did try however, to imitate some of her natural assymetry , toning it down a bit. The real life evins mouth is offset and her nose is a bit bigger... and her eyes are different.. and the rest is different. Anyhow

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    the forehead needs to be bigger and the jawline brough up and more redefined
    other than that good job

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell
    There are a bunch of things I really like in this, and a bunch that bug me. Please excuse my quick and dirty paintover. Here's what I did:
    Lowered and shrank the face.
    Shrank the mouth slightly.
    Rotated the left eye slightly, and moved the pupil to correct the gaze.
    Lowered and rotated her ear.
    Trimmed in the shape of her jaw.
    Shifted most of her hair towards yellow so it doesn't look like it's two different colors, and defined it from the background a little more.
    Cropped the bottom to improve the composition.
    Thanks for your input.
    I think that most of the things you have corrected are matters of taste. Things like making the hair yellow makes no sense, and correcting assymetric things in the face takes away the personality she has.
    Im thinking about painting a couple more of them though as this one didnt take so long so I'll keep your thoughts on beauty and characteristics in mind.

    I'm not trying to brush you off here, I like hands on critics, thankyou!
    cheers!
    /Alice

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    I do prefer Elwells version i have to say, but then that does come down to taste. You could omit a few of the corrections but the cropping is essential i feel.

    Last edited by Hybridstar; November 8th, 2005 at 06:38 AM.
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    cropping of the whole picture?

    edit, guess thats what you mean, I tried to go for a "tall and majestic" creature. Isnt that taken away a bit by the corrections and cropping?

    Last edited by Alice; November 7th, 2005 at 09:36 AM.
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    Thats fine, but because you havent indicated the width of the body the length doesnt really read.

    Last edited by Hybridstar; November 8th, 2005 at 06:41 AM.
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  16. #15
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    You know what, you asked for feedback but to each and every comment that was made you replied that it was a matter of taste. Please, keep something in mind, if you are making paintings for your own fun it's all right but if you ever intend to sell your work, or get job as an artist, listening to what people say becomes important, if 9 ppl out of 10 think your forehead is too low, then it's too low.
    If you don't want crits, don't ask for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qitsune
    You know what, you asked for feedback but to each and every comment that was made you replied that it was a matter of taste. Please, keep something in mind, if you are making paintings for your own fun it's all right but if you ever intend to sell your work, or get job as an artist, listening to what people say becomes important, if 9 ppl out of 10 think your forehead is too low, then it's too low.
    If you don't want crits, don't ask for them.
    One word: Chill.
    Take a deep breath.
    Calmed down?
    good.

    First, I'm swedish and english is not my native tongue, so note that things may sometimes sound a bit more harsh than I intend them to sound. For this I am sorry.
    Then, on to your answer:

    What I asked for was critics and pointers on general impression and mainly colours. What I'm reading here is pointers on how to achive the perfect female ideal. I already know how to draw an anatomically, symetric female. So that is not the feedback I'm asking for, nor a thing I want to achive with the picture. I am sorry if you think I sound ungrateful for the answers I have recieved. I have mainly stated that some of the suggestions, tho they are good, is not what I am striving to achive.

    If someone posts a naked woman, asking for critics. Some people aswer "the joints here looks dislocated, etc. The anatomy needs to be corrected here..." that is a helpful criticism. When someone answers " I think she should have bigger boobs!" then its a matter of personal taste.

    Same goes for width of hips, amounts of fat or the size and tint of an elvish forehead.

    Again, I'm not trying to be agressive or ungrateful. I do appreciate all the input I'm getting. As I said before, even if I'm not changing certain details of this one, its a good thing to keep in mind for the future. (though I really like creatures that are asymetrical and have personality )

    cheers!
    /Alice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybridstar
    Thats fine, but because you do not indicate the width of the body the length doesnt really read.
    I see what your getting at. The detailed picture is cropped a bit up. I added the details to the collar, and I guess I should add defenition out to atleast one shoulder.

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    It really bothers me that her shirt is so pixelated. You spent so much time on the face, especially the eyes, and then her shirt is horribly gradated. Her face pops out so much it would almost be better if you didn't put hair in there at all, since it doesn't look like they're attached. But I know since I didn't mention the color, you won't really take it into account.

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    You mean its blurred?

    edit:
    ofcourse I have been looking at Linda Bergkvists work now and then and she has a fantastique way of blurring the non essentials.
    Your thoughts that the rest of the portrait, everything but the face has had less love, is it cause its your personal taste that everything should be detailed or is it cause I have not detailed it just enough to get away with it?


    You mean that I didnt got away with it and that I should add more details to the shirt? (is the collar ok?)

    Last edited by Alice; November 7th, 2005 at 09:34 PM.
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    well maybe it's my browser, but to me it's not blurred at all. I can actually see where the colors change. It's odd since the rest of the painting doesn't look like that. You don't even have to add more detail, I think the resolution on the shirt is for some reason too low. Maybe just spend some time blending it?

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    Well, Alice, I think you can see that your image has touched a lot of folks. There's something delightful about it, but things that distress some viewers. It may be the asymmetry, but it happens a lot in real life (Shannen Doherty, for example, has one eye about an inch below the other!), or the focal elements, but they are common in portraiture. Elwell's image is slightly more appealing because it does move the face closer to that "ideal", but that shouldn't take anything away from the original.

    What really jumps out at me (and you've been lauded for it) is the harsh reflection of some unidentified light below and to our right. Those shiny bits are so hard, that the light would have to be strong enough to make some other visible effect on the face and perhaps the clothing (we'll leave aside the probable atmospheric effects). The fact that there are none make this seem like one of those effects that was put in because it was seen somewhere else and was cool (which it often is). Here, however, it has nothing to do with personal preference, but is simply not a representation of a lighting effect which balances with the lighting effects on the rest of the image (which are very nice, especially the soft shine on the upper nose and the cheek).

    It's like mustard on your sundae; mustard's good, but not on everything.

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    Its been a bad habit lately, to put a yellow light from the left and a blue from the right.
    Guess it started when I needed to define the right side of the nose. And I wasnt consistent with it.
    That along with a rework of how the neck connects to the face will be tended to, I just gor wrapped up in a version of her as a child
    Thanks for the comments and poking me about the plain misstakes in the picture

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    I like the rendering of the face.... nice work!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinMint
    It really bothers me that her shirt is so pixelated. You spent so much time on the face, especially the eyes, and then her shirt is horribly gradated.
    I thought you where a weirdo for pointing it out, then I looked at the JPG on my inlaws flat monitor and it looks really weird. On my old 21" old fashioned heavy thing of a monitor at home, it looks Ok... I will toss the picture along to the printer next time I have something in need of printing to check it. Its painted rather large in 300 dpi so its prolly just compressionproblems

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    Hi Alice

    I like the painting you've got here. The eyes, nose, lips are beautifully painted. I even like the details such as the freckles on the cheeks and the glare in the eyes. My one crit would be that I think that the colors should be altered slightly. The skintones are fine, the problem i have is the color of the hair & the red costume in combination with the skintones. I just don't think it's matching up well together. Also, the skintones appear to be slightly warm/neutral but her hair and dress aren't. Also the glare/highlight in the eyes in extremely warm, making me think that if she's looking at something that warm and bright enough to reflect in her eye, than her skin tones and hair (especially the hair) would be much warmer.

    nice piece though.
    j.

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    I don't really like how you guys nitpick at this in some areas.

    for one when one of you kind of redrew his painting,
    and reshaped her head. In my opinion that is basically just you saying
    you don't like the shape of the woman in the painting, so you changed it.

    Should our art always include perfect beauties with the "perfect" figure?
    I don't think so, people are going to have oddly shaped features.

    I'm not saying his painting was perfect,
    but if you're going to critique, then do so about the technique used,
    not a persons choice of subject/material.

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    Look people, all Elwell did was try to give his critique of what he thought the picture needed help with.

    When you create a humanoid character, the anatomy has to be damn close to human, otherwise it will look wrong, no matter how "not human" it is. That is because the viewer will see the picture, recognize the obviously humanoid characteristics of the character and then wonder why it looks strange.

    As far as the haircolor, I would think it's more for contrast and coomposition than because Elwell prefers blondes.

    You don't have to incorporate the exact changes he made, in fact you shouldn't, but it's definitely worth taking the reason they were made to heart.

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    My gripe was that the girl basically just looked "big chinned"
    which looked ALITTLE awkward, yes,
    but maybe that was the artists intention? Maybe she's just a girl with a slightly imperfectly shaped head, just like many people in this world.

    that's not incorrect anatomy, it's just being out of the norm.
    which is good in my opinion.

    The proportions do seem alittle off though,
    like maybe the torso needed to be bigger, or the head smaller?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad
    My gripe was that the girl basically just looked "big chinned"
    which looked ALITTLE awkward, yes,
    but maybe that was the artists intention? Maybe she's just a girl with a slightly imperfectly shaped head, just like many people in this world.

    that's not incorrect anatomy, it's just being out of the norm.
    which is good in my opinion.

    The proportions do seem alittle off though,
    like maybe the torso needed to be bigger, or the head smaller?
    You are right, and I know Alice also said that this was based on a picture of her friend. Just remember that you need a reason to make something look "off" because the general viewing public isn't going to make excuses or try to figure out her personality.

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    the thing that Elwell changed on this portrait that was most notable to me is the woman's focal point for her eyes and the size of her head. I think these things appeared not as stylistic choices, but as errors.

    As for the rest. well the outfit to me neither says exotic nor 'fantasy' so it looks like a portrait (I happen to see a lot of Elizabeth Perkins in this picture) with an ear affixed so the green haze around the brow looks off. Now it its intended to be a marking such as Jadzia Dax has in Star Trek DS9 I could see this carrying down to her neck and even on to her breast. Because it almost doesnt read as 'hairline' to me since it seems to border on green, which her hair, for the most part, isnt. If you really want it to be percieved as hair, use it for more of the hair color and creep it into her eyebrow.

    of course we all serve our opinions... and some of which you probably wont care for. But instead of arguing with them look at them as sort of a buffet of ideas. Take what you like, pass on the rest. Ultimately its your choice.

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