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This is a bit of a spinoff of the other thread.
I'll be honest, I personally put various forms of visual art on a higher pedestal than others - as I'd imagine a lot of you guys would as well, perhaps if not consciously, then subconsciously.
I've always been keenly aware that I like the aesthetic design of anything, whether it be a product, a drawing, a painting, even the typography of a well made newsletter - when they were done right, you never noticed it, it sat in perfect zen and nothing detracted from the overall product or piece.
Originally, when I left college, I knew I wanted to pursue something in the visual field...anything would do, I just didn't want to do anything in computer science.
So I poked and looked in every nook and cranny and eventually landed a role as a standard lock stock graphic artist doing catalogues, advertising and such. I was ecstatic because I was doing something visual!
That enjoyment lasted about 3 months until I realised all my visual desgn principles and aesthetic principles were thrown out the window once money started to be a factor. Customers didn't care about proper kerning, didn't care about visual balance or consistency, they didn't care about alignment or use of negative space...9/10 customers wanted to fit as fucking much informaton on the page as possible, and made sure to have the "50% OFF!" was always in a giant red star with bold lettering and was placed "somethere...anywhere that fits" on the page.
I started to realise that this job was absolute baloney, the could have hired a rote trained monkey to do that job so I started to look at what else I could do in the visual field. Even being paid freelance, rediculous (imo rediculous - simply because for what they wanted, my prices were always high) amounts, I would abhor having to do this work. I occassionally still do it, I mean who would turn down $1500+ for one days work? That is a lot of reference and art materials =)
I wanted to then get into 3d modelling because heck that seemed like it would be great fun, but then, I thought about it and thought to myself "hmm...there must be someone else BEHIND the designs...I don't really want to be taking someone else's designs and turning them into visual assets...what happens if I get a crap designer then I'll be doing a variation of what i was doing before", s I finally stumbled across the field of concept design and that settled it.
I worked hard at my drawing skills for 6 months in my spare time before landing a position doing exactly that then climbing higher within the company quickly.
Now I get almost complete creativ freedom in what I do, except for the fact that I still take the visual cue from the scriptwriter's story (I'm kinda fortunate since I have some sway in that as well heh), so within the working environment of team based creative work, this is about as close as I will get to doing my own thing.
I recently became entranced with the renaissance periods and I am studying their techniques and art form, both the visual aspect and mental dispositon behind their works, from the theatrical stances and expression to classically balanced composition in an effort to pay hommage to those masters of humanism. I've also taken to learning of sculpture, which is something I would also love to master in the future next to oil painting.
Underneath all this, I understand that I was not seeking a style, or job, but I was seeking freedom - what path should I take in order to wrench the creative hand back from others and place it into my own, so that I am essentially the master of my own fate and work.
I can now understand why some artists NEVER accept commissions, and instead rely on exhibitions to make their living.
So I guess what I seek, ultimately, is freedom.
I feel through a fine arts approach I can gain that freedom, I can express my thoughts as freely as choosing the subject matter through which to express it, I can take any stance I want and not be reeled in my upper echleons looking to stem creative effort in order to reduce polarisation of the market place thus increased the target audience range which translated to a higher return on invested capital (thats my managerial degree speaking...don't mind him, he's an idiot).
I feel for me, that is the highest form of visual representation, or the basis of how I rank visual representation - the less tightly the reins are wound around your subject matter and socio-political stance.
Also connected to this belief, I feel is also the need of physically unique qualities, I find myself strictly using my digital skills and tools only for work, and reverting to physical tools and mediums to explore my own works.
I believe a part of me, like so many others seeks some form of their lives and existence living forever in limited and treasured quantity, working in finite degradeable materials increases the impact of each piece.
So, have you asked this question of yourself lately? I'm assuming everyone who reads this loves their art - do you just want to "draw cool shit" as someone said in the other thread?
I once did, I admit that much, but I want so much more than that now, I want to affect people's thoughts and stance of subjects, just like film directors - those who can make people interested in a subject matter because of their film, imo have gone above and beyond what their jobs call for and have ascended to a higher level.
I know for one thing, my life does not revolve around money, I don't feel very many artists would revolve their lives around money, for me I don't give two shits to be honest, as long as I have enough to feed myself and buy my supplies, I don't give two hoots, I could be working on minimum wage (I'm not heh) and I wouldn't feel any worse for wear.
I feel through art, I am searching for myself, I am presenting myself with a blank canvas, asking myself difficult questions and replying to myself on that blank canvas, I am forcing myself to confront questions I usually don't ask in the best way I know how. I am searching for the meaning of life through art and I am being free while doing it.
A bit heady this all is...but I am convinced many of us are beyond the "draw cool shit" stage, perhaps you are drawing cool shit to make your living, while in your spare time you are also contemplating with your brush?
So, through art...what is it that you ultimately, or will ultimately seek? Mine is ultimately, my soul.
What I seek is to make people happy by taking them to other worlds and connect on a very personal level with my art. I want people to have some kind of strong reaction to my work. Be it happiness, inquisitiveness or even sadness and anger. I just want to make people 'feel' the art rather than just glance at it.
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Well as far as I can look back I can remember that drawing has always been fun to me somehow. Everything started with copying some Dragonball characters from magazines and Akira Toriyma's Dragonball artbook. It was always fun to me, and I drew in my sparetime.....sometimes. Mostly I spent my time watching TV or playing Videogames, both of that happend in a very dumb-ass way and I just sat on the sofa without thinking about anything, school was never imortant to me, as stupid as it may sound. And I lived that way for about 15 years of my life ( well now I am 17 ) . And then for some reason I became interested in other peoples artwork, it still didn't mean that much to me but I began to take a closer look at all this great pieces and then somewhere in the beginning of the year 2005 I visited this forum for the first time. I saw all these motivated guys over here who seemed to do nothing but drawing all the fucking time and I asked myself why they do that and while I asked myself this question, the desire to create 'art' grew more and more inside of me, it just came on it's own. I saw the work of Marko Djurdjevic, HPX,Foster..... yeah and then I felt that this guys and their work made my hart bash inside of my chest. It seemed that this happened for no reason, it was simply there and it as beautiful. This was the moment when I decided that I want to learn to draw, just for the reason to 'kick some asses' and maybe even for no reason at all. I felt good having some kind of aim that I wanna reach in my life. And then I believe the moment came that changed my whole life till now:
Playing a Videogame.................a simple videogame, yeah one of the things I have done for almost my entire life but it wasn't only one random videogame it was 'Metal Gear solid 3 - Snake eater'. The bad guy, 'Volgin' was his name, I hated him. Yeah I felt pure hate and anger towards this guy and I still do each time I think about him. I hated a guy that was inside of my TV. That was the moment when it made 'click' inside my brain and that was the moment that determined what I am seeking for in my live. I want to create something that people hate.....well and that's not all, I wanna create things that the people love, or are angry about, just make them feel anything. I want to create things that make people feel something, something that they will not forget for a long time. And that's why I am drawing, that's why I put hard work into improving my skills.
A bit more particular: I am seeking to get into the game-or filmindusty to create characters or even whole worlds that touch the feelings of the people that are watching it, yeah that's what I am living for
Gloominati. YES! I know exactly what you mean, and Metal Gear is the example I always use.. When compared to a game like Splinter Cell, where after every level I said, "Who was that random Russian dictator I just assassinated?" In Metal Gear I recall feeling genuine sadness and remorse when Psycho Mantis and Sniper Wolf died. They were'nt just sprites, it felt like these were living people with real lives.
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as a young kid, comics were pure magic to me- once i started out in the comic biz, the magic was gone.
later reenactment was pure magic to me - once i started out in the reenactment biz, the magic was gone.
movies were always pure magic to me - once i got into the film biz the magic was gone.
music was always pure magic to me -once i started to hang out with musicians, learned to play an instrument (keyboard, some bass) and joined a band the magic was gone.
art was always magic to me - once i started producing art for others the magic was gone too.
I sat down and thought about all that. I asked myself, why I developed a love/hate relationship with all these things. I came to the conclusion, that all that magic faded away when I started to do things for others, visualising THEIR ideas, playing THEIR music and so on...
thats when I started to create my own projects in all these fields.. just for myself... and the magic came back...
I guess in my case, what I seek is total artistic freedom, making myself happy with it and hopefully making enough money with it to pay the rent...
sorry for the poetic form of this post.. just felt there was no other way to express an appropriate answer
"How do you know you're good enough?" "You know." "What if you're wrong?" "You find out."
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Personally, I've always create art for me. (That sounds repetitive) Otherwise there's no pleasure in it. No matter what the art is, when it's done, or even who it's for, it's always, ultimately for me. Whether it's simply drawing in my sketchbook, painting personal projects or working for an employer the art that I create is for me and for the experience that it takes to create the art.
Magic Man, we share a common past. I too am a graphic designer (by day).
I graduated college with a major in Illustration and was excited to enter the art world. I found a great job at a newspaper as a graphic designer and even though I never took any design courses at school, I quickly realized that essentially both fields were the same.
The newspaper was very small, and at times that caused frastration if only because resources were limited. (When I first started we didn't have any photographers and so all photos or artwork came from the writers, which 99% of time were sub par and cause me to stick my tounge out)
In the five years that I've been here though, our paper has grown considerably, and for every accomplishment that I've had, I know that there was huge challenges that I faced to get here, where I'm now the Art Director. I've also shared the experience of clients (and even a publisher) who didn't really care about a perfect design. Your story about the 50% and the giant RED star brings a tear to my eye. (Infact I've instated a rule now that no one here can use red starbursts under any conditions!) I also realize that none of this would have happened if I didn't inject my artisitic style and make it personal. Every single month, every single assignment, I would find a way to inject my peronsal style and take on the subject and even though was being employed by the publisher to design it, I would essentially own it. I never really take on the attitude that just because I work for someone else's creation, that it's not mine. IT IS!
Ultimately, it's for my enjoyment, my growth, my understanding. If it's something that I've created or something that someone hires me to create it all goes into the same pile.
I'll try and write more later, after thinking some more on the subject.
My Sketchbook :: Phantasmagoria
Illustration Portfolio :: jasonsnair.carbonmade.com
Design Portfolio :: jasonsnairdesign.carbonmade.com
My Blog -- Feed Me Toast!
I started as a graphic designer when it meant something, and worked as a "fine" artist as much as possible at the same time. That historical period was also coincidently extremely political, and I became one of those people who, for better or worse, came to believe that art of any kind could be an effective tool for change.
This is still with me today, and as I return to my own art exclusively (NO MORE FUCKIN' CLIENTS!!!!!!!), I can already see this becoming a major element in what I plan to do. The business side of me knows that I have to make a living, so I'm currently preparing myself to "do something" that will be acceptable to others in a monetary sense without forcing me back into the client/artist relationship mentally. Probably, what will happen is that I will become a sometimes "craftsman" producing one to 20 of something by hand that will fall into the "I'D buy that!" category as a base, with my painting, prints and scupture at the other extreme. This isn't as disgusting as it sounds, because the repetitive nature of multiples allows me to operate by feel, freeing up my mind to explore other things/themes/imagery for the "high" end of my work.
Right smack in the middle is the computer, which will allow me to create "my" opinions/imagery/belief statements and apply them in a manner that will reach more people than the handcrafted items would...illustrated posters, books, and such that would be short-run printed--sort of a "fine arts" as presented by a "graphic designer" in its execution and presentation.
The one advantage I know I have is 40+ years of advertising design and marketing. Working in the field was a nightmare, but throwing that knowledge and experience away completely would only make things worse. So...I'm going to use it. I will become my only client. I will find the niches, the possibilities, and the areas of interest and "inform" myself so I can make use of my skills to take advantage of them.
I'm not kidding myself. I am NOT going to live another 20 years. I'll be lucky to make another ten...but...I WILL use every second of that time doing something that makes me happy and hopefully blows people's minds at the same time.
Freedom. Yes. Doesn't everybody ? Currently what I seek is the courage to take the leap of faith that it requires. I don't mean going trough drastic changes in my life but also having to face yourself and all it entitles.
Summarize young padawan....summarize.
I have a lot of similar points to make with Magicman and Ilaekae (without their job experiences) and the conclusion I came to for a long time since before I graduated from my art diploma....was that I wanted to enjoy and be happy doing what I want to do. Who gives a shit about what others think?
Drawing is theraputic and like a sort of meditation and is a calming factor in my life.
Creation is a great love in my life.
Absorbing the knowledge I need to create the visions I dream about feels like a great way to waste my life.
The next thing closest to art, is a dog.
There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and THE TRUTH.
"I feel through art, I am searching for myself, I am presenting myself with a blank canvas, asking myself difficult questions and replying to myself on that blank canvas, I am forcing myself to confront questions I usually don't ask in the best way I know how. I am searching for the meaning of life through art and I am being free while doing it." (Magic Man)
"thats when I started to create my own projects in all these fields.. just for myself... and the magic came back...
I guess in my case, what I seek is total artistic freedom, making myself happy with it and hopefully making enough money with it to pay the rent..." (VirusArtist)
"Ultimately, it's for my enjoyment, my growth, my understanding. If it's something that I've created or something that someone hires me to create it all goes into the same pile." (Jason Snair)
"Absorbing the knowledge I need to create the visions I dream about feels like a great way to waste my life.
The next thing closest to art, is a dog." (Darth Massacre)
"I wish you the best of luck man."
Thank you, Magic, and the best back at ALL of you, because I can see there's a hell of a lot of understanding here of what it takes to live a real life...and that's something that convinces me I was right in coming here in the first place...
...and Darth...BITE ME. I'll take cats over dogs everytime. The closest thing to art IS a warm pussy...
graphic design is a bitch when you work with people that come from a marketing bcakground. They have a bunch of shitty ideas and no common sense at all.
My case: almost a year ago i started working for this company that has a few account (non US based) Nissan, Quaker, Panasonic, etc. So the people from Quaker came to us requesting a website redesign. They "benchmarked" the site against others by using some sophisticated tool. This was obviously made by a psycologist that at the time worked for he company. The client said I want a site like Bimbo's (http://www.bimbo.com.mx) (a mexican bread company) the site is actually very well done, all things considered, even though it is borderline kitsch, but it had been done through a long period of time with a lot of money investment.
SO the art director says during a moment of extremely shitty 80's ideas OK DUDES, LET'S MAKE A SUPERFRESH AND MEGACOOL DESIGN BY MAKING ALL OF QUAKER'S CHARACTER'S INTO RAPPERS.
I was like UH, Quaker's strong selling point is the traditional part. it's an old brand and you need to consider this. YOu can't make aunt Jemima look like missy elliot. so the guy says, ok, don't. Make her look like Beyonce. I strongly opposed the idea but in the end i was just a tool of his marketing mind. So i went ahead and redid two of the characters., one was the honey moster and the other was aunt jemima, just as a sample for the clients.
Man was i embarrassed but the clients loved it, except that whoever saw it wasn't the decision making person of the company. When THE DECISION MAKING GUY FROM THE BIG COMPANY saw the project he asked us if we were insane, that we couldn't do that to the barnd and other stuff. We never heard from them again. I quit the job after a while so i don't know the status of the project anymore. Basically, the project was wrong from the start based on a really shitty marketing decision made by someone whoul shouldn't be
a chief designer. Like Will Smith says in "I, robot" sometimes "i told you so" doesn't quite say it.
Right now and after that and other experiences in that place, i feel really adamant about working in that field again. I want to be independent or find a place with talented people to work with. A place where i can learn and teach at the same time not a place where money and shitty ideas dictate what to do and how to do it. But then i wake up and realize that's going to be pretty fucking hard.
so these are the final monstrosities that came from that project that shouldn't have been. I'm glad it didn't make it. they wanted the whole damn thing in flash. no amount of optimizing would have saved this dog from lagging. very bitmap heavy it would not only load slow but also run slow.
wow. by the word density of this thread i would assume its pretty good. but i lack the patience.
I spent 3 years in an art school studying to become a illustration major when I had an epiphany. Everything I was learning was not enough and the jobs it would grant me wouldn't be close to what I truly desired.
In reality I descovered I am a conductor. I wish to present the spectacular images I imagine to those who cannot, and to achieve this I must lead a group to accomplish the task. I retain more self satisfaction managing a project then working any single said part of it. I am happy to bare the weight of full responsibility if I am in control, and as long as I am, there is little to nothing I am unwilling to tackle.
Knowing this lead me to transfer to another school and study business. I am starting basically all over here, but once I graduate I will have all the knowledge I need to persue exactly the carrier that I desire.
My work: [link]
Can't argue with thatOriginally Posted by Ilaekae
There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and THE TRUTH.
This is an interesting & in my opinion encouraging thread . THX Magic man .
What I realize immediately is although we are all different ages - living in df places - with different backgrounds & characters - our goals are all quite similiar.
We are all artists - every one with a slightly different taste - but all with the goal of producing art - sounds stupid maybe - but I think there is some sense in the sentence.
Who am I ?
21 - German -male -awful hair style (more hair-mess).
Moved here to Highlands of Scotland in 200 at age of 16 with my parents .
3 years school - then two years of one year long art courses.
Currently trying to figure out what to do.
I decided 1.5 years ago that I wouldnt do a degree of 4 years & instead try to become an artist on my own without spending tons of money at some university..
My goal in life ?
Being a happy furfilled rich artist in one sentence.
Express my creativity in any medium that the idea requires.
With my art I want to - like many - touch the average person - I want my art to be not something in a art-gallery (well that as well .. but not only) but I want it to be accessible to everyone - so that everyone in their daily life can be influenced by my art - art which I hope to make people feel better & make people think .. by creating provocative and/or beautyful works (works of beauty as a former art-teacher of mine said) .
Because I think people nowadays actually interact properly less & less ... we send eachother txt messages (sms in German) - do instant messaging - or write emails .
As easy & comportable this might be ... it does not feel as lovely as a proper handwritten letter or actually talking to a real person .. seing & hearing their emotions .. (thats kinda were some of my "...what is CA.org" post comes from) .
Our world is more & more controlled & driven by technology and ends up in my opinion in a way being "colder" in daily life - we send eachother emoticons ((especially me <faint grin>) suggesting emotion because we can not easily scribble a little heart or a hand-drawn smilee .. the only thing be can easily control is the context of what we write & the formating ... not a very personal look .
With my art I hope to bring beauty & encourage individuality in everyone's daily life I think.That is I think where my love for abstract art - or more exactly - my love of positive lovely warm strong colours comes from.
Daily life can be so boring & "cold" that IMO people need to be encouraged to be individual ... to be confident in who they are ... encouraged to enjoy life .
I am not sure .. but maybe that is a bit where the expression "The good old days .. " maybe comes from ... the memory of a better more pleasant time .. I guess this expression might just be true in 10/20 years when we look back .
See what the future brings .
the "draw cool shit" guy was me, and I guess in this sense I'm mentally behind. Learning art for me seems to be a bit different from what I'm understanding it to be for most of you. I like to illustrate what excites me, and that just happens to be the things I loved as a kid. Art for me isn't about expressing myself, for me it's more about telling stories. Telling all the different kinds of stories I've always loved as a kid and creating entire worlds, lives, and personalities to go within those stories. I want to illustrate all the adventures I used to spend my time day dreaming about when I was younger because like you said, this why I loved art in the first place, and it's the reason I still do. You may see my views on this as immature, and that's fine (it's your opinion after all), but that's just how I feel about the whole subject. I phrased it as "draw cool shit" purposely because I wanted to keep the entire idea behind what I was saying as simple as possible. I guess you see yourself and your reasons for your art "beyond" mine, but I like to just keep it simple and have fun. Having fun is my main goal, which is probably why the video game industry is what I would be more suited for.
So to answer your question. I want to learn fine art. I want to learn realism. And then I want to twist it so that I can tell powerful visual stories to entertain people. That's about it.
I would love more than anything to find an answer your question. I have been in a creative slump that has lasted for years. I originally taught myself to draw out of comic books. My interests were comics, sci-fi and in general much of the type of work that can be seen in these forums. Eventually I went off to art school where some very good teachers helped me develop my craft further. After art school I found my interests shifted away from the comics & sci fi but where they were shifting to was unclear. The passion I had had for those previous interests was gone but was not replaced by anything new. This has left me in kind of a creative void.
I compensate for this by never missing a week of my life drawing group, drawing at least something in my sketchbook daily and maintaining my skills as best I can when I don't have an assignment. My rationale for this is so I can continue to earn my living as an illustrator & graphic designer. I know that there are many people on this forum who are stuck in horrible mind-numbing cubicle farms for their day job so I consider myself fortunate that I earn my living the way I do. But is that enough? Your thread topic has sent me into a major soul-search. The question "what do I seek" and why am I an artist? I truly envy anyone who can answer that for themselves.
Art Direction & Design
To continually challeneg my fear of failur. To grow from my failure. To twist reality and to better understand that same reality.
More and more art is becoming thefuel and energy to which I wake up every morning, it's a wonderful thing.
I sure hope I don't get my legs and arms choped off... well, I suppose I'll still have one more thing to at least push paint around with, and no, it's not my nose or tongue, that's disgusting!
@figure2 : Cant recommend or think of much of a solution - but - worst case my words are absolute waste - maybe try the sensory deprivation thing (mentioned in the depressed thread) - or - a more "extreme" kind of the same - something someone I knew at college did - she "locks" herself into a dark room once a month - total isolation - maybe that helps to find an answer - or - go for a loooooong walk - or stare at the sea - whatever calms you down - meditation - I have never tried it - but it is suppposed to do wonders .. .
Or look at all kind of creative things - & hopefully it "clicks" in your head - & your passion is back again .
Figure2, Look at your art, see where you need the most improvement and then push yourself to get there, that's usually what most motivated artists use as fuel, the next precipes. If you augment your mentality like this you'll never really run out of motivation, since there is always better.Originally Posted by figure2
Also, challenge yourself, take up an artistic task you think is above you and try your best to conquor it.
I hope you find something that helps, as long as it's not drugs and sex... well maybe drugs mixed in with se-- no... that's not cool either...maybe...no!
I totally agree with this statement, whether that improvement needs to come from composition, to design principles, to understaning of mechanics or whatever, there is too much to learn in one lifetime to become bored.Originally Posted by rasdasa
Doing the same thing over and over makes me bored too, which is a good and bad thing, bad in that I never sit still, good in that my art is always moving forward every single day.
Well, I'd love to live the "artist's" life as you are saying soon enough, but I in particular have a certain difficulty of following these kind of "life rules & goals" of pursuing eternal artistic happiness. Sorry to say, but in the real world, it is kind of tough to go & do that. You just simply have to go & let the real world handle you. Well, at least I'm speaking of myeself. One cannot just leave & quit jobs because they don't go along your ideals. You all seem baddasses when you mention quiting your jobs because of any excuse, and in my point of view that kind of attitude is laughable. Remember, what I think looks good or not, is totally relative to another person. I seem to find a strong sense of unprofessionalism & weakness when I hear this kind of stuff, cause these people just seem to think that the world revolves around them when it's quite the contrary. Learn to adapt!
A recent case of mine: I'm currently studying graphic design here in my country, and I was offered a freelance design job, which I thought i'd ask for some 50 dollars (printing and all). It wasnt that of a big job, and it was easy to do hence that price. I delivered the package & suddenly the next week when I went to ask for my pay, I got the designs returned. Supposedly it had errors & such, but then the client told me the truth with out remorse: he went out to a local printing shop & they had "the same" design done for $2. If it had errors, why the fuck didn't he tell me throughout the week before our meeting again? Or the fucking instant i gave the designs to him? A months work of mine gone to hell. All because of some asshole home printer guy with predesigned MSWORD sheets. I agree with Magic Man on this. People just dont give a shit when money is involved. But you have to live with it. Learn to adapt to what THEY want. The next time I'll just lower my prices when I sense some sort of monetary abscence in the client. & etc, etc.
In resume, I just want to tell people that I just want to constantly break my boundries in every way that it could relate to me! But never keep out in mind about that awful real world. Because it does restrict us in one way or another. View it as a normal person would. In a non designer - non illustrator/artist point of view