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  1. #1
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    Tarentino & Guy Ritchie... racism?

    I own and watch a lot of Tarentino & Guy Ritchie films. I love their style, stories, dialogue, and criminal capers. But I find it odd how they refer to blacks & Jews, and how blacks & Jews are portrayed in their movies. Their similarities of their movies in subject matter and racism is apparent.

    Mr. Orange (in Reservoir Dogs), refused to chip in $1 for the waitresses tip, consequently he was referred to as a Jew. Doug The Head (in Snatch), a gutless stolen-diamond dealer, was a proud Jew. Kill Bill Vol. 1 did have one black person (Vivica Fox), who was killed within the first 5 minutes, which allowed most of movie to focus on O-Ren Ishii (an asian). Kill Bill Vol. 2 had no black speaking roles. In Reservoir Dogs, Mr. Orange called his fellow bank robbers a bunch of niggers because their bautched, disorganized robbery. In Pulp Fiction, Samuel L. Jackson played a black assassin who was emotionally reactive, nearly shouting throughout the whole movie, quoted religious tomes from the New Testament before killing people, and believed that God saved him from getting killed (therefor prone to mysticism rather than rationalism). Not the mention the dozen times the word "" was used, and well as dozen times it was used in Resevoir Dogs. In Snatch, the comedic role went to 3 bumbling black amateur criminals who always got the short end of the stick, at their humerous expense. And in Lock, Stock, & 2 Smoking Barrels, the comedic role went to the "mad man with an Afro," funny-looking Rory Breaker.

    The only African-American character who had a flattering role in either of their movies was Marcellus Wallace (the black kingpin in Pulp Fiction)... who gets man rapped by a white southener. The only other flattering role an African-American had was Tarentino's "wife" in Pulp Fiction, whom we don't the front of. Tarentino uses a lot of soul music in his movies, which is positive.

    I'm not black or Jewish (I'm infact asian/pacific islander), which brings up a whole new subject. But anyone else notice this?


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  3. #2
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    you're forgetting that the heroine - i.e. the most flattering role in the movie - of jackie brown was a black woman, pam grier. as for guy ritchie's films, pretty much all of his characters except the heroes - and sometimes including them - are affectionately portrayed as being ridiculous.

    i don't think you've got much of a case, but if it's any consolation, spike lee agrees with you (on the tarantino point, at least).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gezstar
    you're forgetting that the heroine - i.e. the most flattering role in the movie - of jackie brown was a black woman, pam grier. as for guy ritchie's films, pretty much all of his characters except the heroes - and sometimes including them - are affectionately portrayed as being ridiculous.

    i don't think you've got much of a case, but if it's any consolation, spike lee agrees with you (on the tarantino point, at least).
    You got an interesting point on Guy Ritchie.

    But I'm still inclined to think of Tarentino's movies to be dismissive, at times insluting (particularly in Resevoir Dogs) toward african-americans. I've only seen one of Spike Lee's movies ("Do the Right Thing") which was I thought was very good. I forgot about Jackie Brown. Any thoughts on the Jewish matter?

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    you're reading too much into it. Jews are stereotyped as being cheap and blacks are stereotypically always angry and shit. tarantino does it all in good humor. I don't know much of Ritchie's work so I can't say anything about that. As a black guy, I think Spike Lee needs to shut the fuck up. I'm so tired of him and his desire to turn everything even REMOTELY related to african americans into some huge war between blacks and everyone else. I just wanna tell him to have a beer and chill the fuck out.

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    Though I recall the events that you're citing in your argument Parker, I have to say that white characters in these films aren't particularly glorified either.

    It could be said also that movies depicting eras of racial segregation could be racist as well.

    You only find something like this when you're looking for it.

    I don't really get why it's an issue really at all.

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    its spelled TarAntino...and as filmakers that are successfull i think they found a formula that works...

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    In Tarantino's case I feel he is trying to portray realistic characters...or characters anchored in realism anyway. Obviously his whole style lends itself to a very exaggerated reality. The characters he creates are most probably racist bastards, and it is up to you if you want to like them, relate to them, hate them, etc.. If a film maker, or writer only depicted lovable, politically correct personalities he/she would make for one boring creator. Mr. Spike Lee should take a page from Tarantino's book on how to create an interesting film, instead of dwelling inside a shallow, one-dimensional crap-pile.
    ******************
    *:*www.scottaltmann.com*:*

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    well said. One thing that's always pissed me off about Spike Lee's work is that I can't help but think he contributed to everyone's fear of getting into an argument with a black guy in professional work environments. Everyone thinks the black guy is gonna pull the race card and they dont want to be viewed as a racist. Well that and they're scared of getting shot.

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    I think you can still make an interesting character who ISN'T a racist, there are plenty of them out there. There isn't anything compelling about a person who used the term "monkeys," "niggers," and "Jews," as a way to insult their co-actors.

    People can use racial slurs in an affectionate, or humerous way. However, when it's done in contempt because they despise that group, how does that contribute positively or even make that person "interesting" and "realistic." It's insuating that all people are racists (therefor thats what makes a racist movie character "real"), and that racial biogtry is entertaining because it makes things "interesting."

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkerD
    Samuel L. Jackson played a black assassin who was emotionally reactive, nearly shouting throughout the whole movie, quoted religious tomes from the New Testament before killing people, and believed that God saved him from getting killed (therefor prone to mysticism rather than rationalism).
    So him being a christian is a bad thing?
    Rationalism or not, he's the only one in the movie who actually quits being a criminal and aims to redeem himself. He's the most dignified character in the whole movie. If you think that is derogatory for the stereotype of black people, then what's a good example in your opinion?
    Oh, and he quoted from the Old Testament. And that mysticism thing, as a christian, i could feel offended at that remark myself.

    In Reservoir Dogs, Mr. Orange called his fellow bank robbers a bunch of niggers because their bautched, disorganized robbery.
    That was Mr. Pink.
    Mr. Orange was passed out on the floor with a hole in his gut.
    You're talking movies about thieves and murderers. What did you expect them to say, "What the fuck, my African American friend, what posessed you to smear this towel with the blood of the colored citizen whole brains you splattered all over my car?"


    You wanna talk racism, check out the Lethal Weapon series. There's the all american good white guy who's a badass and invincible, and his trusty black sidekick who allways falls short in every way.

    ...this last part was a joke, but if you're going to act that paranoid towards those movies, you''l have a far wider spectrum than tarantino or ritchie

    EDIT: I don't mean to imply that you are paranoid or insult you or anything. It was just the only word that came to mind.
    Last edited by K-17; October 21st, 2005 at 06:54 PM.

  12. #11
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    its all in humor. If you're going to make a character you have to give him a real personality. You don't hold back certain things just because they're not PC, that just limits the character's personality. if people can't understand that A) it's a story/movie/whatever and B) it's all in humor. I mean look how far shows like Family Guy and South Park go to blatantly make fun of all kinds of groups. And I mean, if you're at a place where you can just laugh about that stuff, it really just says a lot about you. Tarantino taps into that to give some more down to earth dialogue and it works. Some people just don't get caught up in feeling all offended by crap like that, and if you do, then it's better that you just don't watch it.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkerD
    I think you can still make an interesting character who ISN'T a racist, there are plenty of them out there. There isn't anything compelling about a person who used the term "monkeys," "niggers," and "Jews," as a way to insult their co-actors.
    First off, I often times find racist characters to be extremely compelling. Thats like saying you hate murderers, so you don't think they should ever be protrayed in movies. Secondly, they aren't insulting their co-actors, they are ACTING.

    Im curious, are you also in agreement with people who think showing nude women in movies/magazines/whatever is degrading to women?

  14. #13
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    You guys are taking this too personally.

    I was questioning the racial stereotyping in these movies, there's no need to point fingers at me and accuse me of being offended by it. I own these movies and watch them often, and I enjoy them. However... I brought up the subject because I had wondered if anyone else noticed the consistent stereotyping. Instead, you respond by attempting to personally belittle and insult me. Do not turn this into a personal issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by K-17
    Rationalism or not, he's the only one in the movie who actually quits being a criminal and aims to redeem himself. He's the most dignified character in the whole movie. If you think that is derogatory for the stereotype of black people, then what's a good example in your opinion?. ...this last part was a joke, but if you're going to act that paranoid towards those movies, you''l have a far wider spectrum than tarantino or ritchie
    K-17,
    That is an interesting point you bring up about Sameul L. Jackson being the most dignified character in the movie. However, there is no need for the personal insult at the end. You made a point that I did not comprehend at first, but the accusation wasn't ncessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauge
    Tarantino taps into that to give some more down to earth dialogue and it works. Some people just don't get caught up in feeling all offended by crap like that, and if you do, then it's better that you just don't watch it.
    I never said I was offended by it. I mentioned that I own and watch these movies (and enjoy them). Why are you people jumping to conclusions and taking my questioning of these movie characters so personally?

    Quote Originally Posted by aesir

    Im curious, are you also in agreement with people who think showing nude women in movies/magazines/whatever is degrading to women?
    What does this got to do with my original post? What does any of these personal attacks got to with me, simply asking if anyone else has noticed the stereotyping? If you disagree, that is fine. But do not string me up on the stake for it.
    Last edited by CaptainInsano; October 21st, 2005 at 10:56 PM.

  15. #14
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    Like i said at the bottom of the post, i didn't mean it as an insult.

  16. #15
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    I didn't mean you personally, i meant the kind of "you" people use in conversation when they mean people in general.

  17. #16
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    parkerD: is that Elijah Wood's character in Sin City? I mean, in you're AV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Doom
    "You can do whatever you want son, I couldn't possibly be anymore ashamed of you than I already am."

    That what my father told my when I was ten and I told him I wanted to be an artist when I grew up.

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