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Oregano will be running this thread... ill give it over to him.
Oblio Update: umm.. i'll see about this too. thx
Last edited by S.C. Watson; February 2nd, 2008 at 03:05 PM.
(Takes mike from form, winces at feedback and clears throat nervously)
Okay, what I wanted to do is to give everyone a chance to start kicking ideas around about what they wanted, hoped for, expected from the CHOW.
*My* thoughts, for what they're worth, were to focus on the character aspect of this - regardless of species, except in instances where that was specifically required by the description. I've shared my thoughts on this with a couple of you, so bear with me, please. For example, what I'm thinking is something like this (for individual weeks):
An Alien Banker
Teela Brown (from Lary Niven's Ringworld - Description would be provided).
A Garbage Collector
An orc captain
Redesign young Anakin Skywalker
So you'll know if it's supposed to be human or not, or if it's open based on the description. Another thought is to back off slightly on the artist provided description, and include that as part of the CHOW brief. My thought is that these are characters, and we'll need to know something about them in order to really illustrate them and bring their personality out - but I'd like to hear your thoughts on this as well.
As with the COW, background imagery won't be necessary, but definately is welcome.
In the mean time, let's open it up and see what you people are thinking!
Honestly, I really don't want to see "redesign superman" type things. I want to see things more like in COW with themes like "Ultimate stand off" or "Broken spirit". Something where we are not just doing grunt work or fanboy crap. I want to do a few characters with the same challenging aspect in COW.
Here are a few suggestions for themes i would have.
I think its a great idea, having descriptive topics can be a good drill excersise, and also having room for variety in entries.
Also the possibility of making very human-like concepts but also humanoid characters like ogres, trolls, lizardmen, etc.
Charachter redesings also sounds great.
hahaha... ; POriginally Posted by Lord Blue
EDIT: the cow round 22 had a description to follow, the evil supply creature. That was a good experience, maybe the descriptions for the chow briefs could be somewhat along those lines, specifying what is needed.
For (rough) example:
Night Explorer: Our first person fantasy themed game needs a Night Explorer non player charachter. The main charachter encounters him/her in one of the forest stages. He/she needs to have design elements to relate him/her both to a forest setting and also a nocturne adventurer. We need this charachter to be really unique, please avoid the dark-elf design archetype as much as possible.
Last edited by brokk; October 18th, 2005 at 12:05 AM.
My only reservation with this is that those aren't characters. They're random words taken out of context that could really mean anything...Originally Posted by Lord Blue
Well those are meant to create something evocative, minus the last two.
I don't have a problem with them, if we can tie them directly to a character of some sort - which is why I was thinking going more descriptive in the CHOW brief than just a word or two.
Sounds like a plan to me.
id say you need to get really specific on the proportion of your critical weighting - abstract elements like the personality/traits design vs. the construct elements such as costuming, props, and of course critical framework of technical ability. Just some thoughts as to what directions need some solidifying.
I agree...those aren't bad some of the time (and stuff like Dark Assassin is perfect, I think), but to be honest I am not really interested in the COW this week, because "Massive Black" just doesn't really inspire me for any creatures. If it where "Massive Black Forest Creature", I might be more inclined since it narrows it down a bit. Yes I realize what "Massive Black" is, and there was a reason it was chosen as the topic this week, but I still think its just left far too open. I have enjoyed the "Freestyle" COW the least out of all of them that I have entered so far...just because there isn't much focus.Originally Posted by Oregano
I agree that fanwanky stuff can get kind of old. I mean how many times is someone gonna redesign Optimus Prime or Heman, you know? I'd like it to be more like COW, where you are creating your own character each time....just as you are doing with the creatures.
Some ideas from me would be:
I dunno.....just some ideas.
Some of those are silly, but I would like to see some silly topics mixed in with the serious ones as well.
IMO, the right proccedure is to base each character by a function and a secondary modifyer, mostly the same most people already stated. Adstract elements whould come from each piece according to the artist´s opinion about bouth function and the modifyer.
That way you get more possibilityes for unique pieces or different point of views of any given function.
Now the secondary modifyers is just to narrow the idea a little so the final pics wont looks way different from each other, making the choice of each winning pic easyer.
Examples of this were already made, like dark assasin, but in my opinion it would be nice if that modifyer wasnt a direct one, like for example the race or direct phisical appearance, for example " Elf King".....instead we could use: "fire monarch", being fire a more " free to interpretation concept", and monarch a wider function ( it could be a king, a lord, a wizard).
Mostly the modifyer sets the theme and conditions, ( tribal, dark/ hasty, drunk) and the function shows your point of view, for example some might reepresent an assasin as a quiet artist, some as a murderer bastard, some could just make it look like a regular office job , or some could show a different perspective of what assasin means in society, for example a guy who works in a pig slauther house ( all made as original as they can be made of cource).
Well thats all i got for now, hope it helps
Last edited by Shamagim; October 18th, 2005 at 02:33 AM.
Well I vote for a full description-
I don't think a topic like "Lizardman Necromancer" is restricting at all. In fact i might even go a little further and describe some of his personality or key items.
Ex: Lizardman Necromancer is considered crazy by other lizardfolk, spends most of his time as a hermit in the swamps. It wields a staff with a Jem on top, and a blade on the other end.
It's a shitty example, but I think it gives lots of room for creativity and freedom. It's being given a set of peremeters and pushing those boundaries as far as possible without breaking them. That is what i think would work well, especially seeing several artists tackle the same description.
The DSG already covers characters with simple name like "robot defender", i think we should push for something more then that.
rick hershey: in some respects i agree with you. COW and EOW will be run quite broadly and open to interpretation. Perhaps CHoW being run as a more specific brief would be a good idea??
HOwever i think over-describing the character might not be the way to go. Seeing as around 30 contenders will be here each round, its going to be pretty boring to look at 30 different takes on a lizard guy with a specific weapon etc.
WHat i would suggets is a contextual brief, FOR INSTANCE:
Topic: The Lizardman
This character is a member of a jungle tribe, and a member of the priesthood. This character holds a fair amount of authority and has a lot of presence in public, and as such must be dressed according to ceremonial ritual. The temple he is a member of is the Temple del Sol - Temple of the Sun. His design must reflect his affinity with the bringer of life, the giver of light. He should be armed, but not heavily.
This way you are describing all the parameters that the character must fit into - and there is room to work within that framework, whilst they are quite strict guidelines. It just saves giving to oheavy an indication of the characters appearance and will lead to more variation and interest in the topics. Thoughts?
I personally disagree about pre-create the context, that might become to technical and then it would really be as you say, 20 shots of the same lizard man. i would very much like to assemble the context myself if i were to participate.
And as i said before, to say "lizard man", "elf", "orc", "satir", etc is to close the possibilityes to much, and i think it would be to much like DSG characters...if not the same, with the only difference that you have more time to make it.
Inbterpreting wider concepts and creating contexts is fun....at least for me it is.
Well thats my opinion
Form, I really like your contextual setting - that is almost exactly what I have in mind and was proposing in my first post. Providing an occaisonal specific detail like Rick's jem topped bladed staff won't hurt either.
Of the character based CCG's that I've done, this is the type of stuff you get - it's contextual except in cases where the description has to be speific for whatever reason.
That's the format that I'd like to go with.
I agree with Dusty about avoiding the fanwanky stuff - though occaisionaly I'd like to throw a book character in just for git's and shiggles Oh, it'd be fun, admit it But I don't want that to be the main theme throughout this.
Something else to think about, since this is character driven, I don't have a problem with names for the characters as part of the description. For example:
Lord Charles Hemstreet, Admiral of The Imperial Fleet. Tall man, with a cold bearing, although warm to his friends. He has spent a life on board ships, starting as a ship's boy, and rising through the ranks to eventually become Admiral. Commands the Flagship Hope. He is missing his left arm.
Another one could be:
Paddy Joyce - Potato famine survivor.
Not every description has to be dead on specific, and not every one has be terribly vague - I think the idea here is to get enough of an idea about *who* the character is to come up with a picture. So long as we can build a picture of the person, or what they do in our minds eye, I think we'll be okay.
Looking forward to this.. I'm sure it'll be lots of fun.
I'd love it if we were given a fairly detailed description for each character.. pretty much as Form did with the lizardman. I don't think it's limiting at all, and I don't think we would see 20 shots of the same character... i know that if I had the time and were paid well enough I could 20 different very different characters from that description, and then I would still not have covered all different possibilites.
A rule I'd like to see too is that the character must be a full figure. With full figure I mean it must include hands, arms, legs, feets, and so on. If the focus is the character I expect to see all if it..
Thank you OLSEN - that was something I wanted to touch on.Originally Posted by OLSEN
For a visual reference, here's some examples of what I have in mind from a couple of better knowns:
Most of those have backgrounds, but I want to stipulate that the background is not necessary. For our purposes, any of these characters sans background would be acceptable.
That said, the above images should give a visual clue on what we're looking for.
So what? I Love the Idea of the CHOW, it will be next nice CA Activity, and the concept of this little competition is very good. Byt i disagree with idea of 'remodeling' characters that already exist - like 'Create new Batman' or 'New Anakin'. It will be better imho if the CHOW use for the topic things like you said before... something like 'Alien Banker' or 'Orc Milkman' So, I love the CHOW idea. When we Start?
Some Topic Ideas:
- Alien Intelligent Race Chaplain
- Crazy Steampunk Inventor
- Ogre Surgeon
- Lesser Super Hero (Like Six'-o'-Pack or Gluemaster ;3 )
- Demonic Vindicator (Demonic Tenant)
- Postnuclear Soldier
- Alien Plumber
-- Be not afraid of growing slowly, be afraid only of standing still. --
-- My New Not So Sick but Yet Sick Sketchbook is here! --
Thanks for putting this on. I'll be down in about 2 weeks or so (other commitments and weddings first).
Here are some suggestions (if anything was already mentioned, I apologize):
- Carnival Freak
- Vampire Lord
- Possessed Child
- Wasteland Bounty Hunter
- Escaped Mental Patient
- Drunken Master
My brain hurts, so more later.
I think this is coming along great Oregano- examples you provided really fit what I'd like to do. As an illustrator I guess I'm used to some form of description when it comes to characters, and I like trying to fight withen that mold.
If members really push the concepts and designs of these pics, i don't really think we'll see a lot of the same designs. I can draw an orc barbarian 1,000 different ways. That's the challenge.
The full figure has to be a rule- drawing busts or half figures is just wrong.
Hey Rick,Originally Posted by rick_hershey
I pretty well agree about the full figure rule, but the more I think about it, I'm not going to disqualify someone for doing only a half figure. Take Todd's Not So Byzantine picture for example. It's awesomely rendered (the print is even better ) *and* some folks may be up against a time issue as well.
However, I will get stinky if someone only submits a bust - that's a no-no for this. I think stipulating something like at least 3/4's of the figure, including head, must be seen in order to qualify for the vote.
maybe it could be a weekly type requirement? say one week the subject requires that certain limbs take importance over others, and in some cases it doesnt, such as...
-the messenger boy that uses mechanicly enhanced legs. or a king whose headwear is the most talked about accessory of the far reaches of his empire.
something like that?
No. No. Uh uh. No way. Ain't happening.
alright, gimme a sec.
The rules are fair so far, and i think you already have the theme equation ready and most of the rules would be the same as the other community activitys i guess ( such as: "dont go nuts with the size", " certain skill level required", etc)
This activity could start like C.O.W did, trying to find a coincidence between the first theme and the name "Chow"
I think is a synonym for feline or cat, theres also a race of dogs named Chow Chow and is a slang term for food....
When could this activity start? i love the idea ( and i was kinda waiting for it XD)
Shamagim I've already got the first CHOW character selected and am in the process of refining it some. No. You can't have a peek
We'll actually start on the 22nd, which is this coming Saturday. So be ready! And, for the most part, the general guidelines will be the same, though there will be a few new activity specific guidelines added.
abediah Not a bad idea, though I don't think it would work well with the character of the CHOW activity (pardon the pun). We'll have *all* kinds of interesting characters marching past us in the coming weeks - so don't worry. But what will be the most interesting is how people interpet the character descriptions!
just pointing out to all that the 'fan' characters i think oregano was implying we do were from BOOKS, hence, have no visual design thus far - just using the books to give us a textual stimulii. I will be doing something similar for EOW soon... a sponsor round... very exciting!
like??Originally Posted by Oregano
it has to be humanoid and/or wair clothes/weapons
Like I'll post a working list in the next day or soOriginally Posted by BrainBug