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  1. #1
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    I hope you all are watching Baghdad this morning

    Live on Al-Jazeera is the people of Baghdad, high-fiving American soldiers, desecrating Saddam's statue.
    So, to all you anit-war / Liberators of Iraq....

    I hope you are learning somthing.



    :chug:


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  3. #2
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    i think there is some symbolism to taking down that statue today in downtown bagdad. the people of Iraq tried to do it themselves but couldn't, There rope was too short and the statue too strong. they needed allied help to take down that statue. similarly they couldn't face the real saddam without outside help. but once that statue was down, what a party they are having!

  4. #3
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    its good to listen to both sides...

    if americans werent so critical of its own government than we wouldnt have the best government in the world...we would blindly follow our leaders

    dont try to discourage people from speaking their mind :o)

  5. #4
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    I'll say this one more time:

    I NOT trying to keep people from speaking their minds and opinions, ...but ranting irrational anger and unwarranted statements is foolish.

  6. #5
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    I NOT trying to keep people from speaking their minds and opinions, ...but ranting irrational anger and unwarranted statements is foolish.
    Are you going to do like your government? Read further...

    Uhmm. I have heard of the US telling north Korea, Iran and some other countries that now, it they don't listen him... it's going to be like Irak.

    Yeah. Pretty cool. Now we know the next objective of the US. But everybody has the right to imagine the rest...

  7. #6
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    "I have heard of the US telling north Korea, Iran and some other countries that now, it they don't listen him... it's going to be like Irak."


    Wow, never thought so many people in europe liked to believe so much B.S. Tell me or show me who and when that was said.
    Boy , you guys just love to hate the U.S. I bet you'll believe anything you hear about the U.S. as long as it makes us look bad. This reminds me how much you love your tabloids over there.


    Sorry for being so sarcastic, but show some proof.
    You just made my point.
    Last edited by otis; April 9th, 2003 at 05:54 PM.

  8. #7
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    otis - don't diss the europeans. generations of them have gotten to see war up close. when was the last time we really were invaded or had enemy soldiers moving through our cities? war of 1812? possibly the civil war? it makes sense that they dont easily want to support war. plus the united states is a fairly religious country, making it easy for people to see the world in black and white, evil and good. Seeing in absolutes isnt necessarily the best thing to do.

    north korean, iran, and iraq were singled out as being part of the "axis of evil" during bush's 2002 state of the union address. using the logic that the united states used to liberate iraq, one could conclude that north korea and iran could be next. (this is not taking in account the argument that the united states went to war over iraq's violation of un resolution 1440. this arguement could be considered void because the american public in recent polls would consider the war a victory if no weapons of mass destruction are found. sad, eh?) the precident now is we can attack to prevent acts of possible future terrorism on americans.

    dont get me wrong about "freeing" the iraqi people. the problem now is establishing a new government that will actually function well. we dont had a very good track record of setting up good new governments and since we pissed on the un and other countries, it's going to be a long hard path to rebuilding a nation. remember, were rebuilding afganastan too.
    "Nous sommes desoles que notre president soit un idiot. Nous n’avons pas vote pour lui."

  9. #8
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    Thumbs up

    uhh I don't want to sound like a flaming fruit cake....

    but I was in tears when saw people actually happy about what was happening. It was very emotional to know that it is not completely or at all in vain.

    -Joshua

  10. #9
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    This is what Orben was talking about I think...

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...a_warning_dc_1

    Just out of curiosity, were any weapons of mass destruction found?
    "The Jungle Creed
    says the strongest feed
    on any prey it can
    and I was branded beast
    at every feast
    before I ever became a man."

  11. #10
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    Otis: woah there,, this is not quite the time for the "i told you so" speach that im sure we were all expecting from one of you guys. because after all,, we havnt found those elusive weapons of mass destruction,, or the "smoking gun" yet.. you know,,, the REAL REASON were in this war.
    now granted,, they may actually show up, but that doesnt take any light away from the crappy way our entrance into this war was handled in my opinion.
    So, to all you anit-war / Liberators of Iraq....
    come on man,, you really dont think your schooling anyone do you? EVERYONE knew that there would be partys in the streets if Sadam was taken out,,, but thats not the reason were over there right now. were not world liberators spreading our american brand of justice and freedom throughout the world. thats not what all those kids joind the army to do. they are defenders of there home.

    there has never been any question as to wether or not sadam should have been taken out of power.. the only question was,, by what means and at what cost...

    -Lono

  12. #11
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    Lost:
    This is what Orben was talking about I think...
    wow,, that is fucked up and scary.

    -Lono

  13. #12
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    i won't say anything Otis, you know where i stand. except that I really like that one quote
    if americans werent so critical of its own government than we wouldnt have the best government in the world...we would blindly follow our leaders
    I like it, although it still shows how cocky america is, "best in the world" why say that even if we feel it, its just far too cocky for my taste. America should be more humble...
    also, what the hell was with that marine putting the american flag over the statue's face for the entire world to see. I love the flag, but that was not the place for it. was anyone else as bothered by that as i was?
    Pain is just weakness leaving the body

  14. #13
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    Clod, I agree with you about the US flag going up first briefly. But only because of this politically correct situation this war is in. i don't know if you heard the reporter on the scene when it happened, but he said when our flag whent up , the crowd roared and applauded....everyone down there knew we were liberating them and not conquering. I think it's only the people trying to make us look bad who are trying to convince the world that we are lying invaders.

    "generations of them have gotten to see war up close. when was the last time we really were invaded or had enemy soldiers moving through our cities?

    You proved my point for me. so, because they accepted these terrible rulers, kings, and dictators, this makes them more wise??
    George Washington could've easily become Americas first king after the revolution, because that is what people were familiar with. But thank god he didn't, and instead we developed our new gov't of the people and the Bill of Rights.

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    I am not sorry that Saddam is gone.. hell no! However, I do worry about what happens next.

    Otis, you asked for a link.. here is another:

    link

    Basically warning countries like Egypt (who happens to be an ally of ours) to look out. Now, this happened a few days ago.. but I kept it in mind because in response to that a number of Egyptian clerics called for Jihad against America. And today, Islamic leaders in Egypt called for Jihad again:

    link
    link

    While I too felt a twinge of national pride today seeing some of the reports, it is far too early to start strutting around. Hell, the implications of this war on Iraq may not be realized for twenty years.

  16. #15
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    good point oglzogl. I'm only trying to make a point to all the people who said in the begining of this war, that we were not welcome in Iraq. We still have a long, but hopefully short road ahead of us. I think that this is the decade for the Arab people. Not in some Jihad, or religous war, but for freedom and democracy. I believe that the Arab world is tired of living under such stupid ass repressive leaders.

    Sue me for believing in the people, i honestly don't think we need to worry that much about the minority religous fanatics.But we should definatley make an example out of those terroists.

    As for the CNN links: He is the "FORMER" CIA director. See in Washington its all political..when you have a different party in office all the "former cabinet members" will try to convince you of somthing that has not even happend. take everything these "formers" say with a grain of salt.

    All Former means means is that he's out of a job now, and holds no significant position at the time, so his party puts him on t.v or the news to politicaly hurt the current party in power. And it's sad cuase he's using his former title to make it sound legit. Basicall it's just his opinion, nothing more.

  17. #16
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    Fair enough.. you are right. He really has no power.

    You are right, but his words can still create a stir (as I said, the reason why I remembered this guys article is because of some Islamic clerics response).. and that is too bad.
    Last edited by oglzogl; April 10th, 2003 at 12:21 AM.

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    Thousands of civilians have/will die before the war's over. Imagine the number of "terrorists" which US has created already. Look at how well afghanistan is doing now that we've liberated them..or any other country for that matter that US has entered and "liberated". In the end US ends up pulling out all its forces and just saying screw it. Think iraq will be any different? We'll see..also keep in mind a lot of the cheering civilians are from the southern parts of the country or from the northern kurdish areas. Most Iraqis view the war as an invasion.

  19. #18
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    Originally posted by otis
    [You proved my point for me. so, because they accepted these terrible rulers, kings, and dictators, this makes them more wise??
    George Washington could've easily become Americas first king after the revolution, because that is what people were familiar with. But thank god he didn't, and instead we developed our new gov't of the people and the Bill of Rights.
    i don't believe that you quite understand the point i was trying to make. in plain english - the united states can[may?] go to war easily because most american citizens have not had the grand opportunity to experience war up close as a civilian, nor do we have any recent history of experiencing war on our own soil. this is not to say that we all wars we have fought were unjustified.

    Your comment is insulting to the people of europe because it suggests that they let the wars of the last century happen to them. history is much more complicated than that.
    "Nous sommes desoles que notre president soit un idiot. Nous n’avons pas vote pour lui."

  20. #19
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    uh.. Lev, WE did not creat terroists. Terrorism has been around forever. And you want to talk about how we fail at rebuilding nations???? How is Japan, or Germany doing???


    "most american citizens have not had the grand opportunity to experience war up close as a civilian, nor do we have any recent history of experiencing war on our own soil"

    Seb, I disagree, what do you call 9/11??? If that is not an act of war, where 3000 innocent americans lost their lives, tell me what is??? I can also mention Pearl Harbor, but we wont go there.

    As for the europeans letting WW1, WW2 hapen to them...don't take that literaly, but generally. Ofcourse it's the leaders that set our paths in motion, but those leaders are only supposed to be there representing their people. Europe didn't do shit with Hitler. Churchill was screaming about the situation, but the rest of the wolrd tried to apease Hitler. So don't tell me they didn't let it happen. I mentioned on another post : Could you imagine how many lives wouldv'e been saved if we wouldv'e entered WW2 earlier???? but at that time Americans didn't want to get "involved" until Pearl Harbor got us involved, and Hitler declared war on us a day later!
    Last edited by otis; April 10th, 2003 at 02:36 AM.

  21. #20
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    Terrorism an act of war? Since everybody can do an act of terrorism... It's not an act of war. No government give credit for such act normally.
    Terrorism are act of crazy people who trust in revenge for his familly dead or anything like that. I don't think we, as people in 'rich' country can understand really how people like come to think about killing thousand of others people for revenge since we don't have our famillies kill, we aren't beatten in street nor oppressed by our civilization.
    Each time we kill people in this situation, we create more and more people who can fall into this kind of reasoning, pain can destroy a man easily and lead them to suicidal solution.

    One nation ruling another has never work in history for what I can remember... look at the satellite country in Russia, nearly every of them has taken his freedom when they can after having fight the oppressor for long year (you remember Russia? The Country who try to ruled Afghanistan for example... the number of Fedayin they've fight there, Fedayin that the CIA form, like, uhmm Ben Laden? )

    Each time a nation try this kind of thing, some people get up against that and fight. Why do you think the security of US are on level orange? Because they think people are so happy in Irak that they can come to US play with firearms?

    I don't remember exactly how many civilian people has died in this war, but it's too many.

    And I'm still waiting for US finding evidence of mass destruction weapon

    For what I say about the US warning some other country, i've heard in 3 or 4 television new in Europe. I know, they're all lying to me, but since I don't see why they lie to me more then CNN or Al Jazeera I will continue to listem them as you will continue to listen CNN. And I will not talk about journalist kill by "error"...

  22. #21
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    lets talk about: "And I will not talk about journalist kill by "error"..."

    Do you actually think the U.S tank fired on those journalists on purpose??? If so why?

    And who is trying to "rule" Afghanastan? What are you talking about? We are not conquering. I think Afghanastan is a hopelss case. That country (if you even want to call it that) has never had a solid gov't that could ever provide for it's people. It's a wasteland , that can only grow poppyseeds for the drug industry. I mean, as soon as we pull out of there, all the terrorists and scumm will migrate back to their caves again.
    Last edited by otis; April 10th, 2003 at 12:25 PM.

  23. #22
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    You guys better cool down before Sgt. Naptime owns you ALL!!!

    -Joshua


  24. #23
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    nobody here is getting fired up. Can't we have a discussion with out people getting all nervouse?

  25. #24
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    For the journalist : yeah, bomb has fallen on the local tv studio by error, it's well know(and against the Geneva Pact...). The tank has fired by error on the hotel too(it's a great film taken by a cameraman of FR3, a French television). Yeah yeah.
    Error? Uhmmm, one time yeah. More, i begin to ask myself some question.

    You are not conquering? Depend of the pov I think... I don't think Afghanistan are an hopeless case. Before the Russia domination I don't think theres many terrorism in there...

    I've allways think that everything we do has is price. Now, it's time to thing about it... I hope that UNO will take back his place and that we never see such a case again.

  26. #25
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    roundeye:
    you need to saddle up on your Canadian Cock Horse and ride back over to Poo.. ill bet your leaping around your house in your underware right now wearing the Canadian flag as a cape. Hah! CAPTAIN CANADA!! eh..
    you seem you get your jollies by flying in here every now and then just to kick a little sand in someones eye..

    i hope YOU have fun with the spoils of YOUR personal campaign..... oh wait,,, THERE ARE NONE!! hahahahah! your just a lone GAYBOY gaying it up on internet messageboards! now thats funny!


    :p <---- eh? eh???

    -Lono

  27. #26
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    JEEZ Zach... How GAY.

  28. #27
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    if by Gay you mean Cool,, then,,,, Yah man!

    -Lono

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    i hate canadians...
    anyway I think the guy that fired the tank gun at the hotel is really sorry and it was obviously a mistake...but uh, hey. if your a journalist and its yer job to get up close and personal to the war, then poorly calculated tank shells are an occupational hazard. war is never predictable, war is crazy. No one can really hold it against america or make any claims that our military doesn't care about human life. so I hope i don't hear too much whining about that.
    Pain is just weakness leaving the body

  30. #29
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    What is happening Clod? We are in agreement too much now!:eek:
    :chug:

  31. #30
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    Its logical to think that if a sniper is shooting at you from a building, that you will fire back. That could have been the case.

    Roundeye- No. That was just stupid, plz never speak or type again.

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