Armando: Did you mean something specific by "different analytical methods?" If so I'd love to know what. I'll keep your other comments in mind, too, thanks a bunch...
Baki: More environments are coming soon, if all goes according to plan...
Mull77: I'm glad you could tell that's a sea, I was afraid it'd be mistaken for a river I think I'm taking a little break from heads (at least as the sole focus) but I'll try hold those features in check...it's the anime influence...
Don't like to post without a picture so here's an old transformer.
Analytical methods: Got off of my lazy ass and copied this from my reply:
"The first thing I did was to make a 3D space for the drawing, which can be seen in some of the drawings where there's a divided rectangle in perspective. I learned this based on Jack Kramer(think he called it form structure) and it's also one of Loomis's 5 P's, and a bunch of other people have said the same thing.
The next thing I did was to figure out the position of the parts. Which I derived from that space based on perspective, and what I felt was right which I learned from "The Natural Way to Draw".
The next thing I did was figure out what forces were acting on the model. Which means gravity, and muscular excersion, pushin pulling etc. That can be seen on the drawings as lines marking the apexes of curves, on the breasts, on the legs of the lying pose, and on the tricep region on the last pose where the mass is being pressed out by the leg. This is explained in "Force: The Key to Capturing life through drawing".
After that I figured out the masses and planes. Of course this wasn't followed exactly though, and there are some other vague ideas I thought of like textural gradient, which I learned from "Drawing and Percieving".
This is most of it, be sure to read a lot of different theories of art and find a way that suits you best.
Last edited by armando; December 6th, 2005 at 12:48 AM.
"Beliefs are rules for action"
"Knowledge is proven in action."
"It's use is it's meaning."
TGping: He's kinda Springer-ish, at least when he's got his colors, which I'll post below.
Armando: Many thanks for the clarification, I will explore those avenues...
More bodies, still looking for dynamic poses, exaggerating and distorting things a bit more than I normally would...heads run the gamut here, from one of my best to some of my worst. I think the head/neck/shoulders is the trickiest part of the body to draw...
And the TF in color:
Finally, I seem to have drawn a grizzled hobbit warlord. Dunno where that came from...
Some dude walked into the bar (where I do a lot of my drawing) today and offered me some unsolicited criticism and advice. Turned out being a good reminder that there is such a thing as being too open to criticism. Sometimes people are just full of helpfulness but they don't know you or your work and they don't really understand where you're at or what you're trying to accomplish with whatever page your sketchbook happens to be opened to...now ordinarily I'd just file his advice away and and save it for a time when it might be more relevant, but this dude rubbed me the wrong way by dissing computers. So it turns out there are still people who don't understand computers and will look down on you just for mentioning that you happen to touch the evil things once in a while, and are completely unwilling see that a computer is just a tool like any other.
Plus, unsolicited criticism is not so helpful...how are you supposed to experiment and figure out how things work if you have to worry about people looking over your shoulder and saying, "do it this way!"
Solicted criticism, of course, is a completely different matter, so please keep it coming
So anyway, here's a quick, defiant photoshop study. I for one welcome our new electronic overlords.
Legs were kinda messed up here, too close to the bottom of the page. I've just started using shoulderblades as a primary landmark in hopes that they will help me with the difficult neck issues I've been having...think it's helping so far, will have to see if it continues...
Hey, Max! Stuffz lookin' pretty nice in here! Keep it up!!
That robot is really nice but I'd think you could vary the line width even more to give it more sense of weight in areas. Something to think abour. Soemthing else I noticed in your paints (not just the bot) is that they seem flat. Try to pay attention to the planes of the body. The form is important thing to consider when you're rendering these bad boys. Think of how your hand might move across the surface. Take note of the basic shapes and how the value you might wrap around that object. Bridgman's (it's a book if you don't know) has some great studies of planar analysis that helps to break some of this stuff down. Let me know if you don't get this. I spent a great deal of time the other night explaining myself to a friend and he seems to be gettin' it now. It'll really help if you can make yourself think about it. Kind of like the cross sections that BrokenSprit is doin' in some of his studies. Just try and be mindful of those sorts of things. Keep it up!!
Hiya Zeb, good to see you again.
re planes and painting: I think I get it, but I also think I'm already doing it, which would seem to be an indication that I don't get it. Now let's see here...the moon girl is the one that looks flattest to me (not counting the robot, who's an old paint and would have much stronger shadows if I was painting him today)...if we agree that the moongirl's the flattest, then I'll know I'm in the ballpark of getting it, at least
In places I think you're doin' it a bit. But it's more complex than you're treating it. Maybe a tutorial is in order. I'll get back with you. Be patient, k?!
I think I've got a bit more of a handle on it after looking at your sketchbook...I'll look around for a tutorial.
I hope you're ready for some unsolicited criticism, and the first is, we must destroy technology!
I know what you mean about the encounter with the bar guy, there are a lot of people who think similarly. I totally agree with what you're saying, sometimes its better to see more before shooting your opinion, otherwise you are just asuming too much. About the whole photoshop thing... a friend of mine told me that when oils first started being used a lot, there was a lot of resistance towards them, as if they were the new way to cheat in painting. Of course this could be false, I haven't checked it up, but, its true that "new" stuff is sometimes not held up to the same standards as other things. Personally, the people that I've met who support this kind of oppinion, cannot back up their opinions because they are founded more on ignorance or personal whim rather than facts. So, just let it fly by...
I remember you told me some time back how you had trouble making the chests look 3d, now your figures are having a really good 3d quality. There are some proportion problems, at the legs mostly, but I love the solid look on them. And the dynamic poses are looking really nice too, keep it up.
We're sending mixed signals, Bro3ken... lol
Lol, I wasn't meaning to contradict you, sorry
I was just looking at the figure studies in 12605.jpg, like the chest of the bottom-right figure. I agree that the figure paints look more flat, but in the drawings there is a sense of 3d I think, like on that chest.
I agree that thinking in 3d helps to draw/paint something more 3d-like. If I had to guess, the problem with the paints may be in the way he renders the lighting which makes things look flat, which means, more lighting studies
This doesn't happen in the drawings because there don't have value rendering like the painted ones.
Though, the jetfire and mushroom images had a very strong sense of 3d, so does that girl in grayscale on a bed.
In any case... didn't mean to start to sound like I was contradicting Sorry for the confusion
bRØk3n_sPiRiT: I think the poses are what's giving the chests mass, more than anything else...just drawing angles where some of the back is visible. I might still be in trouble if I draw people from straight on...maybe I should just never do that again
ZebzFree: He's talking more about line, you're talking about rendering...I'm not confused (at least not that I'm aware of) I think I've got a handle on what you're talking about and I might post something later tonight for verification.
Jetfire has pretty dynamic lighting and shiny surface, which made it easier to give him a 3D look without thinking too much about it, and his lighting is really just grayscale in different layers. The girl in bed is all grayscale, so I was able to apply the shading principles I know, again, without thinking too much about it. The more recent paints, however, have curving surfaces with color, and it's the mapping of light and dark to four values that I didn't have a handle on...that and integrating my line work with rendering, on pencil drawings...anyway, hopefully improvement will soon be evident.
Zebz: I've simplified the forms a bit to illustrate the principle, but is this more what you had in mind?
The robot mood strikes. Just some rough ideas...some of these are kinda old school...will do some better drawings once the ideas are more solid. A couple links for bot lovers: http://www001.upp.so-net.ne.jp/STUDIO-SA/gallery/ (unspectacular but decent 3D renders of a lot of classic robots, clearer and better for reference than most of the pictures of toys and toy boxes I found on the web), and http://robot-japan.com/ (sooo much cool stuff).
EDIT: Another cool robot link... http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~monomania/ore-bine/
I've never seen these guys in the US. If only I had the capital to import them, develop a cartoon, comic books, etc...
Fat Kid: Thanks...will try to keep improving...
TGping: Yes, you should draw an old school bot or two...I'd love to see that
A few more bot concepts, some of them in disguise...
And the final Naked Friday till January 20 (though I will try to schedule some things with friends in the interim):
Last edited by max1975; December 10th, 2005 at 01:05 AM.
Have a cool idea for ChoW, but it's rather complicated. Hopefully I won't be too obsessed with robots to pull it off.
Weekend bots: Finished with this guy, at least as much as I'm going to. He's not interesting enough to pursue further, but he did help me get in a groove.
Here's some more deliberate bot design. Bought a few matchbox cars, used this one as reference: http://matchbox.com/us/product.asp?i...ory_type_id=17
And then there's this guy, who's a little closer to the quality I'm aiming for, but doesn't fit on the scanner, dammit.
Nice updates, Max! I like the work you're doing with the bots. How about showing a gradual progression of them transforming into their alter egos?? That'd be interesting. Keep at those figures as well. You're lookin' better with each post! I appreciate all the commentary on my SB as well. I'll have to give that a whirl. Keep it real!
the life drawings are looking better with each post! keep it up.. : D
.: drawing fundamentals 01 :.
Good updates! Diggin' on the bot smashing the pole
Naked friday drawings are hella good! Nice values and description of form.
One crit, though.. the face on the girl from the friday is weaker than the bodies.. seems you relied more on heavy lines than describing the form of her face. If treated the face with the same amount of love you put into the bodies, they would totally rock!
dCepT: Yeah, I didn't do a very good job on her face. I really need to be a bit closer to the model to do a good job on those, I think, I've only drawn one or two decent faces in all the life drawings...doesn't look much like her either. Thanks for the comments.
I'm glad you like the robot, but argh! That's supposed to be a building, not a pole! hopefully that'll be clearer in the finished pic.
Yina: Thanks for stopping by Unfortunately my life drawing sessions are finished until late January, but I'm going to try to get some friends to pose for me in the meantime.
ZebzFree: Always good to see your comments Yeah, the in-between stages on the transformers would be cool, I'll try to find some time to do some of that.
This one's for bRØk3n_sPiRiT: A WIP on the big bot I posted earlier in the day. Went over my lines with a 1-pixel pencil to separate the bot into faces. Used the wand to make selections and fill in the colors, then made a vivid light layer called "updownlight", selected all the faces that were pointing kinda down, and filled them in 50% white. All the up faces got 50% black. Made linear light layer called "leftrightlight," went through the same process. Adjusted the opacity on the layers to my iking, and you can see the beginnings of a jetfire-style 3D bot.
I ignored most of the curved parts for now, they're gonna take a little more work (actual painting involved there) and there's a lot of refinement (and shadows) to go, followed doing the background and the building, after which I'll probably flatten the layers and go in with some brushwork. But I thought you might like to see this stage of it, with and without the color.
I'll probably run into some trouble with the later stages...exploding buildings don't lend themselves to such precise techniques
EDIT: I especially welcome all comments and suggestions on the color scheme. Fortunately that's the easiest thing to change.
Oooh. A fellow robot-fan. Good. I don't really have anything constructive to say, as it's one-thirty in the morning and I'm not too coherent, but I'm just happy to see another mecha and transformer illustrator around.
Magenta and yellow work, but the blue bothers me. I think green would work better, just to reinforce bad guy colors. It's up to you whether you'll keep the colors bright or tone them down, I prefer guady in this instance.
"Beliefs are rules for action"
"Knowledge is proven in action."
"It's use is it's meaning."
Armando: Green, huh? I don't typically like green for bots...too naturey...but I just tried it and you know, that isn't half bad, I might just keep it. I agree the colors should be kinda gaudy on the whole...goes with that old school vibe i'm looking for...
Wingus: Welcome! Check out TGping for some cool robots http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51796. I know there are others around here somewhere, too, but I haven't identified them all yet. Do you have a sketchbook here?
Yeah, I just started one, and I actually watch TGping's Myth Wars stuff on The AllSpark. Good to know there's some folk I know around here. Digging the magenta/yellow guy, getting a Gundam/Brave feel from him. Go take a peek if'n you want some decent robot action. http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57482
Hello. Your anatomy is coming along great and so are your colors. I used to watch my share of trans formers in my youth so always nice to see people drawing them. No crits or anything now cause I'm just not up to it today.
I think the color schemes work decently well. Are these vector images? Just curious. Interesting to see you experiment man! Don't neglect your drawings tho!!
Placeboast: Thanks for stopping by again, hope you can be smoke-free and functioning properly soon.
Wingus: Thanks. Will have to look for stuff on AllSpark, hate to be missing out on cool transformer art.
Fat Kid: Thanks, I'll try that next time I've got a model to work with.
Zebz: I guess they're vectors on top of pencil, yeah. Don't worry, I won't stop drawing. Of course, my anatomy is suffering today from drawing robots all weekend...heh...should be back up to speed soon, it's not like I took a month off or anything...but whenever I focus on one area it seems like everything else suffers.
A page of ChoW ideas:
More ChoW work. Loving the topic, but am worried I won't finish on time. Trying to zero in on a pose here and bring my anatomy back up to speed. Also, I just changed the way I draw noses. I think that'll be good in the long run, but I'm still working some kinks out.
The problem with drawing all these naked people is I can't even conceptualize clothing anymore. Blah. Don't wanna put her in some gratuitously sexy outfit, don't wanna put her in a boring old robe, don't wanna cover up her meaningful angelscript tattoos...
And don't get me started on the wings.
I like the second pose. War Angel plays air guitar. J/K, everything in that pose looks pretty good, but her right leg seems a little too far outstretched. Maybe bend it in a bit so it's at 90 degrees from the ground (below the knee).