!!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast ! - Page 2

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  1. #31
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    @Sirithduriel: Looking good ! I like how the shadow works on the first one, could be used as a scary sort of effect on another project. I see what you mean by "light wood", wood becomes shiny from the stain etc put on it, dark stains don't seem to be as reflective so less shine perhaps? With shadows like on the second one it might be helpful to just block in some really basic shapes (in this case like a T) to help you get the shadow in the right perspective. Maybe we should do shadows in 2 point perspective later? I'm still trying to completely understand it myself so until then I guess.
    - - - - - - -

    I did another one, the milk jug was too tempting. Started off with a quick sketch next to the photograph after setting up some guidelines. Again pretty sloppy huh? Some pretty lazy ellipses too.

    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast ! - !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast ! - !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    #1 Lit from behind
    Pretty fun lighting.
    #2 From the right
    This lighting seems pretty good at describing an objects form.
    #3 From the top Right
    This lighting created really interesting shadows I think, at least in comparison to the bland left, right, front and back...
    I forgot to keep the edges where shadows were created crisp in the others so I think the first two suffer a little bit.
    - - - - - - -

    Going to work on a new exercise today, might be up tonight. Hope to see some more people in here soon

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  3. #32
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    [*Disclaimer*] This is from my head, I'm still learning so it's far from perfect. However I think it may be easier to start learning from an amateur viewpoint and build from there. Read through this and then go from there, I recommend following the links at the bottom of this post. Aside from that any and all input and corrections are vital and appreciated!


    A little more about Color Wheels before the next Exercise:

    color wheel n.
    A circular diagram in which primary and usually intermediate colors are arranged sequentially so that related colors are next to each other and complementary colors are opposite.

    col·or n.
    The appearance of objects or light sources described in terms of the individual's perception of them, involving hue, lightness, and saturation for objects and hue, brightness, and saturation for light sources.

    From http://dictionary.reference.com/


    I'm going to use a Simulated Traditional Subtractive Color Wheel used with paints and the like for the purpose of getting the general idea out there. Notice how the values change with the colors, Yellow is the brightest and violet is the darkest. I've got to do some more research on this but I believe it's just because paint is a chemical compound and the resulting mixtures for different hues just come out in different values. This doesn't have as much bearing on our digital medium since we can just pick the color we want However it's a good introduction. Later I will introduce and explain some other color wheels and their uses.

    The Subtractive Color Wheel:
    When light hits an object some light is absorbed and some is reflected. What we see is the reflected light. A banana is yellow (sorta) thus all other hues are absorbed and only yellow is reflected. The Subtractive Color Theory is all about the light that is reflected off an object (in this case paint!) instead of light itself. We could fill pages about this but that is for another time.

    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    First off the Hues:
    These are placed in the center ring. Starting from 12 o'clock going clockwise we have Yellow, Yellow Orange, Orange, Red Orange, Red, Red Violet, Violet, Blue Violet, Blue, Blue Green, Green and then Yellow Green.

    The Primary Hues (clockwise) are Yellow, Red and Blue; With these colors you can make all others on this center ring and (billions?) in-between. However no hues on the wheel can be mixed to create these hues.

    The Secondary Hues (clockwise) are Orange, Violet and Green. These hues are made with a mix of two Primary Hues. (Note: There are other ways to mix these btw)

    The Tertiary Hues (clockwise) are Yellow Orange, Red Orange, Red Violet, Blue Violet, Blue Green and Yellow Green. Notice how the Primary Hues take precedent in the name? These hues are a mix of a Primary and a Secondary Hue. (Note: There are other ways to mix these btw)

    These hues are all marked in the picture with P, S or T.

    Complementary Hues:
    Most people think this name means hues that compliment each other, i.e. go well with each other. The real meaning is colors that complete each other. For a hue to be complete it must contain all of the Primary Hues in Equal Quantity. (When mixing paint it won't be equal amounts!)

    So Let's start with Yellow; Yellow is a primary color (Check one Primary Hue off) so now we need the other two, Red and Blue. When we add Red and Blue together we get Violet. Violet is Yellows complement.

    Now let's try a Secondary Hue, Orange: Orange is made up of Yellow and Red (Now we can check two Primary Hues off!) Which Primary are we missing? Blue! Orange's complement is Blue!

    Now for a hard one, a Tertiary Hue, Red Orange: Red is in the name (Check One) and Orange is made of Yellow and Red, however we have unequal quanities of these Primary Hues, 2/3 Red and 1/3 Yellow. To make up the difference we obviously have to add some Yellow. We can go from the missing Primary, Blue, and add 1/3 Yellow to get Blue Green. We now have equal quantities of each Primary Hue. Blue Green is the Complement of Red Orange!

    This is how you would do it without a Color Wheel. The Color Wheel is set up so that each hue's complement is positioned directly opposite. Draw a straight line directly through the center and you will reach the complement. I've also added circles of the a hue's complement in the center ring.

    Now theoretically complementary hue's should combine to a perfect gray, meaning no detectable hue, only value.

    Tints:
    Tints are where a color becomes lighter in value. On the color wheel it's created by adding white. This is the outer ring. I imagine adding any color that is lighter than to the other color could be called a tint. However by only adding white you will keep the maximum amount of intensity.

    Shades:
    Shades are when a color becomes darker in value. This can be done with any color that is darker in value. Usually with the Color's complement or with black. Often with the complement however the hue may change slightly. Black's downside is a greater loss of intensity. The black spot in the center of the wheel is to symbolize that combined theoretically these colors should make black, I.e. all light is absorbed. Realistically you'll get a gray.

    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    Above I have a 5 step example of Yellow and Purple in tints and shades.
    To the left of Hues are Tints. I'm showing Taking the simulated "real" paint Yellow and Violet and adding incremental mixtures of white. (I.e. 80% Yellow 20% White, 60 % Yellow 40% White)

    To the Right of the Hues are Shades. This was done by adding incremental mixtures of black. (I.e. 80% Violet 20% Black etc etc).

    The inside ring of this Color Wheel is 50% of Hue 50% of Hue's Compliment, (I.e. 50% Yellow and 50% Violet).
    - - - - - - -

    Now that we have a general understanding of color and vocabulary to continue it's time to talk about how our eyes see color.

    I should be able to add this in the next few days.

    - - - - - - -
    Please offer any suggestions and corrections!
    - - - - - - -
    Color Links you should definetly read:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel
    So much better than what I have here, but maybe not as easy to understand?
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9504
    Color Theory 1: By Fredflickstone (A great thread by a great teacher!)
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9505
    Color Theory 2: By Fredflickstone (Second Part)
    http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/wcolor.html
    More than you would seriously want to know, very scientific and hard to understand. Complete with confusing charts! Almost painful!

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  5. #33
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    This color stuff is great, thanks Idiot Apathy.
    I haven't been able to do any of the latest activities, hopefully I'll be able to catch up soon. Getting ready to move across the country, not too mention trying to find employment when I get there, so things are extremely busy for me.

    Not sure if the shadow of your third milk jug would be that dark, considering the brightness of the bounced light on the object. I still haven't fully read your link on lighting, so feel free to prove me wrong.

    Take care,

    -Rob

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  6. #34
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    **Attention! These Activities have NO due date, they are meant to be done whenever you can, do them and you will still get feedback!**

    @Romance: Thanks dude, good luck with your move and job-hunt. Good catch on that shadow, I definetly concur.

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  7. #35
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    Idiot Apathy > Thanks for the comments! I think less shine would indeed be the key. When I now look at my source image, the shine on the wood there very thin aswell. And your comment about blocking that T shape is pretty much what I should have done. Thanks ^__^

    I like every second try you have shown (at the milk jug and the fire extinguisher... thingie), they indeed describe the form. Though the third for the milk jug is cool too, because of the darker shadows I guess (personal taste maybe).
    That color theory bit you posted is quite interesting, I'll probably read them soon (had my exams for this period, freedom!)

    edit: and I guess more exercises about this are very useful... It's such a vital part of coloring and drawing, one much really understand what's going on.

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  8. #36
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    Some More on The Subtractive Color Theory:
    With Primary Hues you are supposed to be able to mix any color and when combined they should make a perfect shade of gray/black. When mixed Complementary Hues should also create a perfect shade of gray/black. In the traditional Color Wheel (Remember the color wheel is just about what you can mix with what) Red Blue and Yellow are the Primaries. These three do a pretty good job of mixing what you need however when the complementary hues based from this color wheel are mixed they most often create a dull muddy brown or something like it instead of a true gray. So...

    From this comes a new set of Primaries, something I'm sure will sound familiar: Cyan Magenta and Yellow (CMYK [k is for black). With these primaries as the basis of a new (The Modern) color wheel the complements create a truer gray.

    I made a strictly non-scientific example of this. I say non-scientific because the colors are not precise especially the RYB and I'm not a scientist...
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    So left to right:
    CMY (Cyan Magenta Yellow)- Yellow + Blue = 96%, Yellow Green + Blue Magenta = 97.5%, Green + Magenta = 99%, Cyan Green + Red Magenta = 98.5%, Cyan + Red 97.5%, Cyan Blue + Orange = 97%.
    RYB (Red Yellow Blue) - Yellow + Violet = 31.5%, Yellow Green + Red Violet = 26.5%, Green + Blue = 0%, Blue Green + Red Orange = 57%, Blue + Orange 93%, Blue Violet + Yellow Orange = 59%.

    CMY = 97.58% Average RYB = 44.5% Average. Even as completly unscientific as this was CMY is the clear winner! Woo!

    Now, take a look at Photoshop and Painters Color Picker/Wheel. Which do they use? CMY of course!

    Now all this being said:
    When you mix any hue with a different hue you will lose intensity, the further away on the color wheel the quicker you lose intensity. So how are we supposed to create all hues with just 3 Primary Colors? Impossible; you can't! Here's where a bit of personal theory comes in; There are 7 Hues in the Visual Spectrum of Light right? These are Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Cyan, Blue and Violet. I'm sure you've all seen a rainbow no? So sunlight carries the maximum of each of these hues with it, if there was an object that aborbed 100% of 6 of the hues and then reflected 100% of the remaining hue you would have the most intense color imaginable. I seriously doubt this has ever been seen or replicated however, on top of that I believe our human eyes can only see in Red Green and Blue so we can only theoretically tap out those hues. Theoretically these Spectrum Hues should be the 7 Primary Hues and from them every color is possible. However if you look in say Painter's/Photoshop's Color Picker/Wheel you will see that colors such as Red-Orange can be every bit as intense even though it is not a Spectrum Hue. Perhaps this is because we have never seen a pure Spectrum hue? I'm not sure.

    Shooo, that was all a pain to put into words. It helps to get it down though, really solidifies it for me.

    For more of this stuff follow the links on the last one, especially the Handprint website if you can handle the jargon. (I suggest small doses!)

    Next time I'm free it will be Additive Color Theory as well as a color activity, I promise!

    Last edited by Idiot Apathy; October 26th, 2005 at 02:48 AM.
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  9. #37
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    @Sirithduriel: Thanks, it's great to know that a few people are getting something out of all this, really makes it worthwhile. Good luck on the exams!

    @Everyone, that means you too ya lurker!: I'm hoping the lack of activity is due to Midterms and Exams, if not tell me what the problem is or what you'd like to see in here, either in a PM or Post, and we'll see what we can do about it! I'd really appreciate it!

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    Yes, the lack of activity is from exams but heres the stuff I forgot to post earlier:

    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    I used a mixture or different kinds of purples, to see if it different colours would affect the value. It did, but not very well, because after lookinng at your colour wheel, I need to mix the oposite colours (you might think 'Duh' but my highschool's art department is the cheapest money can buy, LOL, so no colour theorey for us )

    I need more practise with the reflecting light, that is hard. But With the help of that subtractive colour wheel, I think I could have done it better thankyou.

    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    the next one with the coloured blocks, this was fun to do actually, but it must have took me about 30 minutes.
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    I rember from my Sketchbook, Idiot Apathy, you said that the 'dark' side must be made lighter because of the reflecting light from the wall, but it still must be 'dark', I tried to tackle this by making it lighter towards the wall/floor. I don't know if this was done correctly. the reflected coloured light from different shapes, and the floor was difficult, most of the time was spent on this. I got confused as to where to put the shadows and I also missed out some shadows too. Well, I gave it my best shot, and here we are...sorry about the picture quality, that me being foolish and saving it as a gif. ah..well.

    so you like my new avatar, huh?

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    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    I've been meaning to post this, but work has me super busy.

    I chose the headphones because of the varying materials and I wanted to see if I could tackle a more complex shape. The shadows gave me hell, as you can probably see. Anyway, top-left, your standard light coming from up and right, which is what I seem to default to. Top right, I went for more ambient light, and a lightsource from the front. Bottom right, a very intense light, coming from behind. I wanted to capture a nice glare effect here.

    I'm aiming to try the other exercises soon.

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  12. #40
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    @Rebecca : I hope your photobucket account resets soon... I want to see these again, maybe I can make myself clearer.

    For everyone else, this is what I wrote in her sketchbook when she posted them there:
    Quote Originally Posted by Idiot Apathy
    The exercises from the Peer Project Thread turned out really nice. There isn't any due dates or lateness, it's supposed to be open the whole time, all the activities going on at once. ... (edited)

    Good job on the Color Spheres, your values are really pretty close. The reflected light was a bit rough huh? I think you got the idea of the exercise though, too often value is forgotten in colors. I like your colored blocks as well, good job on the values but watch your intensity; most of the blocks are the most intense on the back darkside. They are different colors so the light reflected onto the back would appear differently on all of them. I.e. Red light on blue might dull it a bit or even turn it closer to blue violet, but of course it would raise the value a bit (it's still your dark side though!). Blue light on a blue block would raise the intensity and still of course the value (adding light!). Hope I'm making some sense...

    Your shadows are just a bit odd, such confusing things aren't they? Generally with one light source the lines of your shadows from different objects should run in the same directions. Right now it's almost like several lights. ... (edited)
    @Zoeli : Damn dude, I'm impressed. The headphones are really great, especially your shadows and the soft ear part. How did you get the shadows so seemingly accurate? Did make them up or set up a reference? Anyways, look forward to see more!
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    All right, bout damn time for a new Project, it's taken me so long for a few reasons. One, obviously, is I've been busy and this takes some work. It is midterm season after all. Two, I don't want to lead anyone astray, a lot of this stuff I've figured out on my own and haven't been able to varify it yet. Other things I've just barely learned and haven't mastered. I've convinced myself it's worth the risk of a small amount of potential misinformation if it gets people thinking right? After all this project wasn't set this up to teach, it set was set up to learn.

    Yatta yatta, 'nuff jabber.
    Next up is a Project.

    Last edited by Idiot Apathy; October 31st, 2005 at 11:03 PM.
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  13. #41
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    A Horrible Quickie Primer on Additive Color Theory Before the Next Project:

    So, subtractive is how light is absorbed, paint absorbs some colors of light and reflects others. Different colors of paint combined absorb different amounts of different hues. (Wow, thats some confusing wording!)
    "Additive Color Theory can only be done with actual light, for example a movie projector or your monitor. If you've ever gotten a drop of water on your monitor you've probably seen large spots of Red Green and Blue.
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    Combining one of these additive primary colors with another in equal amounts produces the additive secondary colors cyan, magenta, and yellow. Combining all three primary lights (colors) in equal intensities produces white. Varying the luminosity of each light (color) eventually reveals the full gamut of those three lights (colors)."

    From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additive_color

    So instead of eventually leading to black when you mix colors you are headed towards white or full spectrum light. I believe all the hue mixes still apply, i.e. equal amounts of red plus equal amounts of yellow would be orange, but I'm not positive.

    Ok, now the project!

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  14. #42
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    Project #4:
    Basic Reflected Lighting.


    Even if your in a completely dark cave with just one lightsource, that light is going to reflect all around you, it may not be as pronouced as most situations but it is there. (Well, theoretically if the walls, floor, ceiling, you and your clothes where all the blackest black all the light from the lightsource would be absorbed and none reflected, but you wouldn't be able to see anyways...)

    Light is reflected everywhere but it is most noticable in core shadows and cast shadows* because there is less interfering light. (Think about a monitor in sunlight and then a monitor at night with the lights out.)
    *(The core shadow is on the object the cast shadow is "cast" behind the object).

    So, a simple exercise:
    - - - - - - - - - -
    The Guidelines: Edited: Updated
    A: Do the project and create a dialogue of what you did and why. (Try and think about this while you do the project, this is important; we will be better able to learn from each other as well as catch each other's mistakes.)
    B: The Dialogue will be analysed by your peers; (Right or wrong, the idea is to have a reason why and explain it. I think this will be key )
    C: And of course at the same time peer critiques will be offered. (Pretty simple no?)
    D: You shouldn't have to spend a large amount of time on this however spend as much time as you need, give it your best.
    E. All Projects/Exercises are of course optional, have no order, and are always open to participation. Start wherever and whenever you want!
    F. People who are too embarassed to post their results will be shot on sight, you're here to learn not to show off.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    I strongly recommend you read the discussions and analyses within others posts that are between exercises. I see a lot of the same advice being repeated. Read through this for your sake; I mean don't you want to learn faster?

    This being said, sometimes advice or critiques will be given that may be incorrect, or misconceptions; I most likely am not innocent of this either. If you spot mistakes be sure and correct them! Don't confuse these with opinions however, which are never wrong only different.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    The Template:
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    Part A:
    The background is a neutral gray, there are no hues in it so all light is reflected equally. So the background will only influence value and will not create a hue shift, ignore it outright if you want; it won't make a big difference for this. The Sphere is also a neutral gray, it too reflects all light equally. Now remember natural light contains the full spectrum of color but reflected light is what has not been absorbed into the object that reflected it. So the main idea of this is the light reflected off the paper.

    Step One: Take the template and prepare it for however you like to work, maybe a multiply/gel layer or using a selection tool. Seperate the sphere and the paper to make it easier if you want. Your going to do a total of six of these so make it easy to start over after you've finished one.
    Step Two: Using a very basic lightsource (above, above left etc.) shade the Sphere with just black and white, save three copies or work with layers for the next part.
    Step Three: For this part you are going to do three different setups'. The sphere will stay a neutral gray but the paper is going to change color. Here is a quick layout:
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    Sheet One: A Medium High Intensity Red as Possible Sheet Two: A Medium High Intensity Yellow Sheet Three: A Medium High Intensity Blue.
    Try and figure our what happens to the sphere, remember your not only adding light but your adding intensity now!. Do all three then move on to Part B. Oh and don't forget a cast shadow! It shouldn't change hue only value!

    Part B:
    Step One: Three more this time with a twist, got your template ready? Here is the layout:
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    Sheet One: Medium High Intensity Red Paper with Medium High Intensity Red Sphere
    Sheet Two: Medium High Intensity Yellow Paper with Medium High Intensity Red Sphere
    Sheet Three: Medium High Intensity Blue Paper with Medium High Intensity Red Sphere

    Step Two: Shade the Red Sphere with just the natural and neutral light, ignore the paper for now.
    Step Three: Add the reflected light from the paper, think about what light would reflect from the sphere into the cast shadow.
    Try and figure out what will happen with both the sphere and the paper, remember your adding light (value) as well as mixing hues.

    Right, looking forward to the results; have fun!

    Please post any suggestions, corrections and comments!


    Last edited by Idiot Apathy; January 7th, 2006 at 06:53 PM.
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  15. #43
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    @Everyone and Anyone: Seems this thread is dead or dieing. Is it because it sucks? Tell me what's wrong and/or how to improve it. Is it just hidden back here? Should I try and get it moved somewhere else? Where?
    - - - - - - - -

    Part A:
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    I shrunk it down a bit so it wouldn't resize your window, 800px width if anyone else cares. (hopefully!) Pretty straight forward, I reckon the reflected light would be less intense and lower in value than the light reflected off of the paper into our eyes.

    The cast shadow (which aren't so great...) wouldn't have that much if any color reflected into it so its mainly a drop in value and intensity.

    Part B:
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    Red on Red: Because both the paper and the sphere's local color was the same red I figured the reflected light on the sphere would be more intense than either of them. and of course higher in value than the core shadow because I was adding light. Again with the cast shadow I thought very little light other than the neutral enviroment light(gray background) would be reflected into it so I dropped the intensity just a little less than usual and the value about the same.
    Red on Yellow:
    I think when mixing different hues of equal intensity the result will be less intense. I figured a pure red with an equal amount of pure yellow should yield an orange; so I ended up with a fairly intense (red and yellow are pretty close on the color wheel so they shouldn't dull each other too much) orange as the reflected light. Core shadow again, small hue shift less intense and lower value.
    Red on Blue:
    Red is pretty far away from Blue on the color wheel so they will dull each other out pretty quickly. Reflected light was a pretty dull violet. Core shadow little bit of a hue shift, lower value less intense.

    Please post any questions comments or corrections. (oof all my shadows are different huh?)

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  17. #44
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    Please stickify this one! great stuff, will start grinding these right away

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  18. #45
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    Thanks for the support Aether, hope to see some stuff soon!

    I quickie-freehanded another one in a blue enviroment with a warm light.
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    The lightsource I made up was pretty warm almost like an indoor light I guess. Where this light source hit the orange sphere it became not only higher in value but closer to the hue of the lightsource. Intensity also when up but not as much as it would if the lightsource was Orange. Core shadow probably should have been a little less intense because the light reflecting off the blue enviroment would dull it (pretty much completmentary hues no?). Cast shadow is actually a really dull red-violet. So dulled out by the blue enviroment and hue-shifted a little bit towards blue as well.

    Just another thing to practice with, I do this sort of thing from time to time to stretch my brain. I learn from almost every one I do including this one.

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    hey idiotapathy,

    you´re doing a gread job here, your engagement is much appreciated.
    keep it up :thumbsup:

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    I'll give it a try later. This looks like a useful thread.

    Sketchbook support group #7
    Andorz
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    Slash
    Mike Frank
    Haldor
    BDFoster
    Gloominati
    _________________________________________
    The Hunger site
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  21. #48
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    Thumbs up

    Hey, men, very useful!
    Great job! Keep on moving!!!

    My english not is the better but i wish you understandme

    Blog - 1xsemana / 1 for week
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  22. #49
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    Hmm, thanks for the support guys, Really appreciated. So now I gather it doesn't suck, but why aren't people participating?

    @Everyone, especially the lurkers: What's up? You don't want to participate? Tell me why at least eh? Got to figure this out or all is naught.
    - - - - -
    Did another quickie to stretch out again:
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    Check out the (simulataneous contrast?) going on between the orange sphere and blue background, almost hurts...
    - - - - -

    Not sure what to move onto next, any ideas? Anything that's been bugging you? Not sure what I can teach but let me hear your thoughts!

    Also, anyone else out there feel they can teach something in a short exercise?

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  23. #50
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    I may join this tomorrow (today - 0216) or in the future; when I awake from a good 5 hours of sleep. *fingers crossed*
    This place looks much more promising than the DSG. Hehe.

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  24. #51
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    I'm still catching up here.

    Idiot Apathy: The shadows on my last post were done without reference, just trying the best I can to figure it out from the lightsource

    Anyways, here's my take on the first project.
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    So, not too bad, I think. Lighter than the original, which is different from a lot of other attempts that end up darker. That's kinda interesting to me...Anyways, my specular is also not as bright as the original, or in quite the same position.

    I think the differences are more easily seen here:
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    Anyways, I'm gonna keep working through these

    *sighs*

    It's lonely in here

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  25. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoeli
    It's lonely in here
    Boy is it ever! Sorry I forgot to reply until now, this thread must be in quicksand or something.

    Anyways, good results on the spheres. It sounds like you tried this exercise out before? If that's the case I think I know why your purple sphere turned out lighter rather thay darker.

    Try this out, do a few more spheres trying to match the values to the grayscale. Do one yellow and one purple. Maybe a Red and a Green if you have time! I'm going to do this when I have time, maybe tomorrow.

    *Skip this next part until you do it/unless you don't want to do it*

    If your eyes and practices are trained or if you do this pretty instictivly, I think the yellow one will turn out darker than you'd expect. The Concept of yellow is a very bright color, when it loses intensity or value it almost always feels green to me. Your Purple sphere will probably turn out a little lighter too. The Concept of Purple is a very dark color generally so if you think "This sphere is purple" you will tend to stay in the general concept of purple. Now Red and Green I would say are pretty close in value, or rather the concept of red and green are close in value. I think these spheres would turn out about the same, they might not match your grayscale sphere however. I'm not entirely sure how to explain this yet but Colors have Values, not just the concepts of colors but I think it's deeper than that. (I'll let you know what I find out.)

    For a real kick, try a multi-colored sphere: try to use say purple for your darkest and yellow for your lightest. See what works in between... you know what; maybe this will be the next exercise? But it seems kind of pointless when it's this lonely in here ya know?

    Edit: Threw this together to show a little more what I mean; These are the colors of the Modern Color wheel. They are all at the same Brightness level on the Color Picker (80) and the same Saturation (100%). Do they look like the same value to you? Try squinting if you can't tell.
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    Here is a grayscale to give you an approximation: It's a link so it won't ruin the above.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...Untitled-2.jpg
    Maybe this is a flawed example (Of course I did it...) but I'm pretty sure the theory still stands. Like I said, need to do some further research. You know I really expected purple to be the darkest.

    On a side note; if you are trying to get a black and white image out of a colored one DO NOT desaturate, don't just take all the saturation out. You need to convert it to grayscale. If you had just desaturated the colored bars above they would become one big bar of gray.

    Last edited by Idiot Apathy; November 19th, 2005 at 05:22 AM.
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  26. #53
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    oh my god, I´m such a newbie in colors

    tried the value/color thingie, no change in hue or such fancy stuff
    some of the spheres are really off, will do some more. have to figure out how to make them appear less chalky. it´s all in the halftone right? hmm...
    any crits?

    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

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  27. #54
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    Thanks for joining in Darkside; your spheres look great. Intensity right in the middle is perfect. What's interesting with yours is if you take out all the saturation they look very very much alike. So I'd say sucess in picking the same general area for each different value on each sphere however the grayscale shows a bit of difference huh? I don't think this exercise was that clear, or was really set up to show this properly though. I'm not entirely sure of the ramifications of this but I think it is important to understand the higher value of say yellow and the lower value of say blue.

    As for the chalky look, it's got to be your brush. Your using painter right? You could try turning the grain down, a different brush of course, maybe switching the brush type to something other than grain, another brush of course or try using a simple blender.

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  28. #55
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    Nope, first time I've tried this exercise before. My education in colour theory has been, looking back, pretty inadequate. The only thing we ever did regarding values of colours in high school was to make a strip of the primary and secondary colours, blending from light to dark, then use this to draw a crumpled black and white newspaper in colour. At that time, our teacher told us that the order would be yellow, orange, green/red, blue, purple, depending on the coloured pencils we were using. I guess to some extent we all know a little of this theory though; when you're very young, and drawing with crayons, you draw your little yellow circle of a sun and it barely shows up against your white sky.

    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    I should probably note that I did these one after another, and I tried to measure each new sphere's value against any previous sphere that I'd coloured. I coloured them in the order that you see, so the yellow sphere's value was measured just against the grey sphere, and the purple's against all the others. I think that if I'd done them all individually my results may have been different. Also, I did not covert to greyscale until I had finished every sphere. I didn't want to keep adjusting as I was working, but to wait and see at the end where I was going wrong so I can better myself next time.

    The yellow is closest to the original in value. I went toward orange for the darker values, but it still has that murky green look to it. It definately doesn't scream yellow at all, but I guess that's just the problem with yellow being so light. I think was overcompensating here though. compare the yellow sphere against the grey, and at least to me, it appears darker. I guess just a case of using my little knowlage to override the information my eyes are giving me?

    Below, on the top row are the base colours I put down for each sphere (more or less, anyway, I only thought to do this afterwards) Brightness and saturation of each base colour was 100%, with only a change in hue. The was I see it, is that is what the computer is telling me is yellow, green etc.

    The bottom row is what I would consider the basic colours. Obviously this is just my personal perception. Is this what you mean by concept of colours?

    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    Just a greyscale version to show the values:

    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    I might give the multicoloured sphere a go next.

    Anyway, I'd just like to say that this is a huge help to me, especially to be thinking about colours in this way, and actually having to put those thoughts into words. Like I mentioned before, I've done very little work on colour theory, other than the basics, and a lot of it is instinct and guesswork.

    I think tposting here be benificial to a lot of people, it just requires a little time and effort, some of these take just minutes and they will help you. >_> Hint hint.

    Darkside! Welcome! It's good to see someone in here. Your top row of spheres are all very close in value, and your yellow really sticks out as the lightest and your blue the darkest, and you can see how that fits in with Idiot Apathy's post above. As for your sphere's looking chalky, what program are you using? Maybe we could give you a tip or two. I hope you do stay investigate further into the relationship between colour and value, or thy some of the other projects. The more people that post here, the more we can learn from one another.

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  29. #56
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    New spheres look great Zoeli, you know where you missed the value a bit that's all that matters. I'm very pleased to see doing these have helped you out, even a little. Makes it all worth while but I still wish we could get some more people in here and start up what this thread was meant to be.
    - - - - - - - - - - -
    I can't say that "Concept of a Color" is very good at describing what I'm trying to say. Ironically what I was trying to say was very simple. What do you see when you picture yellow? What do you see when you picture blue? I imagine it's nearly the same for most people, same hue same, same value and same intensity. Why is this so when there are billions of different colors? How many crayola blues can you name?

    But I think that the concept of different colors in our head are all different in terms of value and intensity. Not only that but the colors themselves seems to have something like this physically built in, I'm not sure.

    Try this:
    Name which hue this color has came from, they are directly from the modern color wheel with no hue variance; only value and intensity. (Of course I wouldn't call them perfect, the hue is only my perception.) Your choices are Yellow, Yellow Orange, Orange, Red Orange, Red, Red Magenta, Magenta, Blue Magenta, Blue, Blue Cyan, Cyan, Green Cyan, Green, Yellow Green.
    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !
    Don't use a color picker! That would be too easy, just use your eyes!
    I did my best to try and confuse you, hehe. Yellow is a toughy...

    Answers on this link:
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t/28887d97.jpg

    Edit: Oh, umm... what should we do next? More on colors I suppose but I can't think of a topic. Anyone got any ideas or anything that has been bugging them?

    Last edited by Idiot Apathy; November 20th, 2005 at 12:58 AM.
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  30. #57
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    my choice would have been:
    a: magenta b: green cyan c: blue magenta d: yellow orange e: blue f: yellow g: red magenta h: yellow i: red j: green cyan k: yellow green l: magenta m: cyan
    n: green
    wow, have to practice identifying colors very interesting

    @idiotapathy:
    no I´m using ps. big softbrush and a more textured brush for the highlight. doesn´t the chalky look come from wrong saturation? your spheres look totally different, richer. guees I have to use the hue/temperature change more.

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  31. #58
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    Hey guys this is a fantastic thread! I started with the first exercise...I am gonna catch up...this is really great! I definitely went too dark with the color version on mine...or the masses of light and shadow are different which could be contributing. It was interesting as I was painting it because when you saturate the area right before the shadow (like you guys were suggesting) it really does make the sphere pop. I saturated the pinks a lot more right before the core shadow but I tried to keep the values the same. I also added orange if you can believe it...to the highlight area. I remember Jason Manley talking about same value color difference at one of the workshops. He was saying that when you are painting you can put some colors on the object to make it vibrate and look actually brighter...darker...etc.. For instance I cooled down the shadows on the color version with a much bluer color thatn the purple color of the sphere. And adding orange to the highlights (hopefully the same value as the surrounding purple strokes) reinforces the idea of warm highlight...cool shadow on this particular sphere. In north light it would be the other way around but you get the idea at any rate.

    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !


    !!Peer Project!! Foundational Activities - Learning, Teaching, and Toast !

    I hope all of that made sense...if it didn't I can explain again what i meant hehe

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  32. #59
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    remind me again why I am paying out the ass to go to design school when you just taught my first quarter classes for free? Serously though, great program here.

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    Idiot, i'm back and good to go, hopefully beable to post some stuff in the next day or two. It's great to see this thread has picked up, hope someone stickies it soon.

    -Rob

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