Poof Problem (Cause Resolved)...I think...
Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Poof Problem (Cause Resolved)...I think...

    I’ve been following the POOF problem on “ConceptArt.org” and other forums very closely because I have this problem. Below is what I think the problem is.

    I use Windows XP Pro.
    Duel monitors.
    120 gig hard drive, 60 gig scratch disk 768 Ram, 1.5 GHz Pentium 4 CPU and 128 Meg Nvidia G Force 5200 graphic card.

    By the way, I sent a copy of this to Rick Champagne.

    I have a “Riff” file that I can duplicate the “Poof” every time, so I started to experiment to see if I can pinpoint the problem. This is what I found.

    The file has 3 layers. Canvas layer has background paint, the second layer is empty, and the third has some individual drawings. The brush I was using was the “Artists’ Oils (Thick Wet Impasto)”, (10x10 72 dpi).

    I wanted to add to the background (Canvas Layer) and use the second layer to do this. Every time I started painting on the second layer Painter went “Poof”…every time. I was able to repeat this over and over again. Then I dropped all the layers and tried again, painting on the canvas layer, this time NO POOF….WOW. I tried it again…and again…and again…and again……NO POOF. So I went back and tested all over again. I brought up the original “Poof” file and again, tried painting on the layer above the canvas layer…and again…POOF. Then instead of dropping all the layers, I just went to the canvas layer and started painting and NO POOF.

    To experiment further, I created a new document, the same size and dpi (10x10 72 dpi).
    I created a blank layer and started painting on it with the same brush (this is how it all started)…..POOF, then I created the same document again and started painting on the “Canvas” layer….NO POOF.

    Conclusion:
    I think the problem is “Layers” and maybe the combination of certain brushes with the layers or selected layer, and if the poof layer is selected and you get poofed by maybe selected a different brush or doing selections or whatever, it may be the combination the selected layer and whatever else you are doing that creates the POOF. All I know is that I was able to recreate this problem and came to the conclusion that it MUST have something to do with the layer function in Painter. I hope this helps..I'm running out of hair to pull....

    Ps:
    An odd thing I found with layers, sometimes when I select the canvas layer it does NOT get highlighted, I have to select another layer then re-select the canvas layer in order for it to be highlighted…I think this is odd and my be part of the layer instability problem in Painter…Just a thought…

    Last edited by artnut; September 28th, 2005 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Added ps
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,089
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 197 Times in 170 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hi artnut,

    I just ran two tests, trying to duplicate your problem.

    Test One:

    Opened a new Canvas, added one top Layer and painted Pencils' 2B Pencil strokes, then painted on the Canvas using the Artist's Oils' Thick Wet Impasto. On a second Layer, dragged below the 2B Pencil strokes Layer, I painted with the Artist's Oils' Thick Wet Impasto, filling the Layer with strokes.

    No Poof!


    Test Two:

    Then I opened an existing square image, resized it (Canvas > Resize) to 10 x 10 inches at 72 ppi and set up the Layers again, with 2B Pencil strokes on the top Layer, and Artist's Oils' Thick Wet Impasto strokes on the Layer below the 2B Pencil strokes Layer. All went well until I decided to check the Pick Up Underlying Colors box. The first couple of Thick Wet Impasto strokes were accepted by Painter.

    The next time I tried to paint Thick Wet Impasto strokes on the same Layer, Painter IX Poofed!

    My system specs are:

    Pentium 4
    2.53 gHz
    512 MB RAM
    WinXP Home SP2
    NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200
    128 MB Video RAM

    Painter IX without the 9.1 patches installed (yet).

    Other programs running during the tests:

    Solitaire
    Netscape 7.1, with Bookmark Manager, and two browser windows
    Two Notepad documents
    McAfee Virus Scan Online
    Other miscellaneous background things running, none of which I understand or would dare to close but always run in the background

    To keep your report to Rick Champagne all together, feel free to direct him to this thread so he can see my test results too.


    Jinny

    Please do not PM me with Painter questions. Instead, post them here where everyone can benefit from them. Thanks!

    Jinny Brown
    Visit PixelAlley.com
    and The PainterFactory
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    my updates are all updated.
    Yes, I think that the layers are creating the poof problem..When you add "Pick Up Underlying color", you change the layer setup and POOF. Like I said, you may get poofed at any time and when doing many things like I did. Once I got poofed selecting a brush, then poofed by group and collapse. The point is I think it all stems from LAYERS. I think they somehow get unstable.
    If you still have that file that poofed and can replicate it, try to "drop all" and re-do the stroke that poofed the file, see if painting on the canvas, not the layer above prevents the poof. It would be interesting. I kind of think that if you paint on the canvas, you will not get poofed

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,089
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 197 Times in 170 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Continued from my previous post.

    Test Three:

    Another test, same as Test Two in my previous post, resulted in a Poof! the first time I tried to paint on the lower Layer using the Artist's Oils' Thick Wet Impasto variant with the Pick Up Underlying Colors box checked. Until then, no problem. It was checking the Pick Up Underlying Colors box, then painting on the Layer, that brought on the Poof!


    Test Four:

    Opened a new Canvas, added one top Layer and painted Pencils' 2B Pencil strokes, then painted on the Canvas using the Artist's Oils' Thick Wet Impasto. On a second Layer, dragged below the 2B Pencil strokes Layer and with the Pick Up Underlying Colors box unchecked, I painted with the Artist's Oils' Thick Wet Impasto, filling the Layer with strokes.

    Then I painted on the Canvas again using the ARtist's Oils' Thick Wet Impasto variant, several brushstrokes, and....

    No Poof!


    Test Five:

    Created a new Layer, checked the Pick Up Underlying Colors box, and painted with the Pastels' Square Soft Pastel 20 variant and....

    No Poof!


    Test Six:

    Painted on the same Layer with the Gouache's Thick Gouache Flat 10 variant and....

    No Poof!


    Test Seven:

    Painted two strokes on the same Layer with the Artist's Oils' Thick Wet Impasto variant and....

    Poof!


    I guess it's pretty obvious the Poof! problem is not resolved, but at least we're able to repeat the Poof! with some specific conditions present:

    Artist's Oils' Thick Wet Impasto and pianting on a Layer with the Pick Up Underlying Colors box checked

    You didn't say whether you had the Pick Up Underlying Colors box checked when Painter IX vanished. If you didn't, can you try the tests I did above and see if both of us get the same results?

    Thanks,


    Jinny

    Please do not PM me with Painter questions. Instead, post them here where everyone can benefit from them. Thanks!

    Jinny Brown
    Visit PixelAlley.com
    and The PainterFactory
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hi Jin, Thanks for testing.

    I didn’t mention Pick Up Underlying Color because I have it checked automatically when I create a layer so I didn’t pay attention…thanks for pointing that out….

    I just ran some more tests.

    Created a doc as before and used thick wet impasto brush:
    I DID NOT CREATE ANY ADDITIONAL LAYERS, SO Pick Up Underlying color does not apply..it is shaded out. I painted on the canvas itself...over and over.......NO POOF at all.

    Created Layer then RAN 3 TESTS using thick wet impasto brush:
    Test 1:
    Selected the Canvas layer (Pick Up Underlying color does not apply..it is shaded out) and painted on it....NO POOF...then

    Test 2:
    Created layer.
    Selected layer above Canvas with Pick Up Underlying color checked and..POOF

    Test 3:
    Selected layer above Canvas with Pick Up Underlying color uncheckedand NO POOF

    So I think that there is an instability in the layers pallet when Pick Up Underlying color is checked (meaning you have a “LAYER” selected (not the canvas layer). I think that this may also explain why POOFS accrue when Grouping, making selections, selecting brushes etc… As long as you have a layer selected (not the canvas layer), and Pick Up Underlying Color checked, than the instability runs through Painter and you can get poofed at any time.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,089
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 197 Times in 170 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by artnut

    <SNIP>

    So I think that there is an instability in the layers pallet when Pick Up Underlying color is checked (meaning you have a “LAYER” selected (not the canvas layer). I think that this may also explain why POOFS accrue when Grouping, making selections, selecting brushes etc… As long as you have a layer selected (not the canvas layer), and Pick Up Underlying Color checked, than the instability runs through Painter and you can get poofed at any time.
    Since the only time I've noticed the Poof! being related to the Pick Up Underlying Colors box being checked, then painting on a Layer, with the Artist's Oils' Thick Wet Impasto, I'll try to pay more attention to see what other brush variants can be used and cause the Poof!

    We hear of so many situations in which Painter IX vanishes off the screen, I suspect we've only found one of them. That's a good thing, though, since it's repeatable and that allows Corel to repeat it too, the track down the cause.

    Thanks to you for working on this problem and letting Corel know about it. I sent an e-mail to Rick Champagne yesterday with a link to this thread, on the chance you didn't get around to sending him a follow up to your first e-mail.


    Jinny

    Please do not PM me with Painter questions. Instead, post them here where everyone can benefit from them. Thanks!

    Jinny Brown
    Visit PixelAlley.com
    and The PainterFactory
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Love u both for trying to poof the POOF.
    keep the good work coming. i agree with that the poof is related to layers and selections. since it poofs me almost everytime i'm working on different layers and switching selection and other tools... 1 click away from disaster and not knowing is horrible...

    have u ever had a poof .. so bad u just stay staring at your monitor thinking *i could sware i was doing something..... wasn't i?.. or did i just imagine the strokes i´ve been doing for the last couple hours?*

    http://www.elfwood.com/art/f/e/fenris/profile.html
    http://kossork.deviantart.com/
    http://tsune.bravehost.com/

    I accept I don't know a little bout everything, but I know a lot about nothing
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Waterloo, Ontario
    Posts
    34
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsune
    Love u both for trying to poof the POOF.
    keep the good work coming. i agree with that the poof is related to layers and selections. since it poofs me almost everytime i'm working on different layers and switching selection and other tools... 1 click away from disaster and not knowing is horrible...

    have u ever had a poof .. so bad u just stay staring at your monitor thinking *i could sware i was doing something..... wasn't i?.. or did i just imagine the strokes i´ve been doing for the last couple hours?*
    Yes. I received a copy of Painter IX from my wife for an early Yule/birthday gift recently and last night experienced my first POOF™ nightmares on a new iMac/Wacom combo. Nice self-portrait too, layers for pencil/sketched outlines, blocking, paint overlay and paint detail, gone in a single moment of POOF™.

    Up until last night I'd not experienced a POOF™ yet as I'd just been toying with painting solely on the canvas layer (more familiar somehow, despite my 15 years of senior design work and Photoshop layers etc).

    It's definitely related to layers and certain brushes for me too, and I'll do some more experimenting to narrow conditions down over the next few nights (after the kids get to bed), but very similar to all of the above. Updated version 9.1 of course. Will post more info when I'm certain of what's happening.

    Great thread, btw.

    Jin .. I can confirm exactly your tests, especially no. 2. Painter POOFs on my new iMac in exactly the fashion(s) you have described. All other brushes seem fine/to be stable, but as soon as that pick up colours checkbox is marked and that one brush gets used, POOF. Odd.

    Last edited by DaveyJJ; November 1st, 2005 at 07:24 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •