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  1. #1
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    Do you think artists have alot of empathy?

    em·pa·thy (mp-th)

    Direct identification with, understanding of, and vicarious experience of another person's situation, feelings, and motives.
    The projection of one's own feelings or emotional state onto an object or animal.
    I've noted that in encountering people that want to learn art that they're either aggressive and impassioned all the way to sedate and receptive, but all of them seem to emote some sort of empathy.

    Do you think artists in general are more sensitive to other people's feelings, then those other folks?

    Or

    Do you take the Andy Warhol approach where "Why do people think artists are special? It's just another job."...approach.

    Basically, I find artists are more considerate....but generally more sedate and demure.

    It's kinda like the raised by wolves syndrome, where you have to learn how to interpet other peoples' state of mind in order to predict their reactions. Some people learn that, some don't.


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  3. #2
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    Most of the other artists I know are angsty pompous apathetic morons who sherk solid artistic foundation for a free thinking laisse faire method of working.

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    angsty pompous apathetic morons
    Yep, I display that, but I think it's more of a learn by example type behavior.

    Before the internet, alot of the art instructors I had wouldn't display their work, so I had no idea what was required of me from them.....all I had was their behavior as example.

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    i think its some kind of mixture of what people think of artists and want to see in em. Just by tellin someone that u are an artist, u will get a lot different fead back and its quiet easy to play with that given role.
    in addition even people who have no clue what u are doin often respect u just for beein an "artist". So even if u are an complete ego-type weirdo, people will try to see the "bigger part of u" since ur an artist. Many people have that picture of the weird artist in there heads. Beein an artist seems sometimes to be a some kind of Freeride for weirdness.

    So basically its not what artists are but what people want em to be. I wonder though how long art has to go on like it is atm till people finaly realize they are huntin stereotypes and dreams.

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    the cats your describing magic only pic art so thay can have socal placement and liek the fella above said free ride for werid ness ,art school is filled witht thease .. well i think you would see thease more in the finearts sections then the id or illustration section .but thease guys are usualy easy to spot .. usualy discribing waht thay do as their "works" .. for example "in my work im trying to get to blablabla " type of thing .youth and inexpeence in life also for some young people leads to puting on that fype of front also for social postion

    but then alot of people that are doing this with dedication can allso feel angst i guessan <acute but unspecific feeling of anxiety; usually reserved for philosophical anxiety about the world or about personal freedom> art is a strange thing . most people respect it in some ways some people love it . but most people also have the fealing that its only a hoby type activity . and is of less value than pumping gass or some thing liek that . its funny that people will look at some thing you did and say thay would give their right arm to beable to do it .. and in the same sentence want to give you 20 dollers for 5 hours work if that <ie wants picture portrate tatto dsg mural ect>. so were sort of in a funny postion . art keeps the world going it drives cultrue keeps us alive well keeps us from just liveing fatiously .

    it seems that to really get the art thign empathy or some thing like it is verry nessary .not only inreleation to person ,persons , but world an universe .you really do have to feel it when makeing a pose feeling balence rythem and the like .you really feel it <much like an actor playign a role > and then by various devices transmit that feeling in a way that it can be decoded and felt by others <a sort of transmited empathy by extention> from feeling speed looking at a car <the structure the lines the colur ect> or feelign the tempture of the day or air in a painting . this is the way when its really good art <good art is probably really the only art ?>


    i think it may be by nessesity of what it takes to learn this craft that we gain this empathy <maby that people empathicly predisposed pick art not shure >the fact that we must constantly keep looking studying people and our world we cant help but to feel it .some one said that you cant truly understand a peoples untill you understand its language . this is the way for artest,waht we are trying to get to .understanding and the ablity to transmit that understanding .

    i think languge and art are verry simmilar if not the same thing one jsut being a more complex form of the other .to transmit code and decode you must understand that empahty being a word we use to describe understanding

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    I think empathy is part of the animal. Especially in the animation field.

    The Disney animators that I have met seem to display the bahavior I described earlier.....I mean they have acting for animators class, so there you go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Man
    Most of the other artists I know are angsty pompous apathetic morons who sherk solid artistic foundation for a free thinking laisse faire method of working.
    That was 90% of the population at my old art school. Its weird how poor artists can be such elitist pigs to each other. The other 10% were nice people.



    I get along better with non artists in real life. Only artists i get along with...well.. we don't talk much about art.
    My work: [link]

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    Is this another "Why are artists better like others?" thread?

    Btw, my answer is "no". But I'm no artist.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam.c
    the cats your describing magic only pic art so thay can have socal placement and liek the fella above said free ride for werid ness ,art school is filled witht thease .. well i think you would see thease more in the finearts sections then the id or illustration section .but thease guys are usualy easy to spot .. usualy discribing waht thay do as their "works" .. for example "in my work im trying to get to blablabla " type of thing .youth and inexpeence in life also for some young people leads to puting on that fype of front also for social postion

    but then alot of people that are doing this with dedication can allso feel angst i guessan <acute but unspecific feeling of anxiety; usually reserved for philosophical anxiety about the world or about personal freedom> art is a strange thing . most people respect it in some ways some people love it . but most people also have the fealing that its only a hoby type activity . and is of less value than pumping gass or some thing liek that . its funny that people will look at some thing you did and say thay would give their right arm to beable to do it .. and in the same sentence want to give you 20 dollers for 5 hours work if that <ie wants picture portrate tatto dsg mural ect>. so were sort of in a funny postion . art keeps the world going it drives cultrue keeps us alive well keeps us from just liveing fatiously .

    it seems that to really get the art thign empathy or some thing like it is verry nessary .not only inreleation to person ,persons , but world an universe .you really do have to feel it when makeing a pose feeling balence rythem and the like .you really feel it <much like an actor playign a role > and then by various devices transmit that feeling in a way that it can be decoded and felt by others <a sort of transmited empathy by extention> from feeling speed looking at a car <the structure the lines the colur ect> or feelign the tempture of the day or air in a painting . this is the way when its really good art <good art is probably really the only art ?>


    i think it may be by nessesity of what it takes to learn this craft that we gain this empathy <maby that people empathicly predisposed pick art not shure >the fact that we must constantly keep looking studying people and our world we cant help but to feel it .some one said that you cant truly understand a peoples untill you understand its language . this is the way for artest,waht we are trying to get to .understanding and the ablity to transmit that understanding .

    i think languge and art are verry simmilar if not the same thing one jsut being a more complex form of the other .to transmit code and decode you must understand that empahty being a word we use to describe understanding
    I totally agree with this whole post.

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    Btw, anyone come across the types of artists who like to depreciate their work - like "this is some crap i did on the weekend", trying to illicit some praise to de-bunk their self professed crapness?

    I run into these sad sacks all the time...only thing is, most of the time, i agree with their comment and don't say anything, just nod, then they get shitted at me for not complimenting their work.

    And I think in my head "pwn3d!!!"

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    yah lota people do that .. here come look at my crapy sketch book .. or some thing of the like .
    thats just defence mechinism . not really a big deal . lack of confidence . usualy for me i tell them not to say things liike that . some people do this in every aspect of their life ... allways writeing loser scripts for them self to follow this is thebad thing becuase if thay tell them self this too much thay will either start beleving it or use that as the excuse for not haveing responseablity to others and them selves <many real bastards ive known do this , and a few exgrilfriends ... insist on them being bad people all the time so thay dont have to be responsable or acountable for their behavior ... when it gets like this its time to leave them on their own lol >


    if jsut young or shy or inexprenced letum know better to say check out my progress! or hay this is what im trying to do soem thign like that .. dont let the my crap type coments sit <well if you care <and i know you do >

    i come at it like this .. im a fukin super hero and can do anything<thats not an ego thing thats a possablitys thing > .. and i like to tell thease people like this the same thing .

    wehn doing an activity thats verry time intense and verry hmm... i guess emotionaly invested its pretty easy to be sensitive about them be it your buisnes a painting or a girlfriend or wat not . so many people assume stratigies to avoid fealing hurt or the possablity of being hurt .wich is silly really .wehn you aproch thinking about thease things much more pragmaticly or functionaly there is no problumreally and that sensitivity is or fear is not quite what it appeard to be . and its easery to make gains from this mindfullness .

    i get that alot the come and look at my crap drawings .becuase i draw in public places all the time . but i never let that sit . a friend i met pretty much like that . for a few days we would draw toghter and he would continualy talk like this verry hyper self conscious . and didnt get much done . i sugested that he not say that any more and and think more about drawing and shit then about waht he or any one else thought about his skill levle .it seemed to have worked verry quickly and hes geting pretty damn good now ..a year later .

    i give lessons and tutoring to people some times also so i see a pretty big range of ages and skill levles .usualy thats the first hump to get over is the selfconfidence to actualy jsut do exersizes and stuff .most of the time people are soooo wraped up in wanting to do a cool picture to impress the people siting next to them or chick or what ever that thay dont get any learning done .kids and hipsters especialy .givieng the appearnce of being cool <and this goes back to magics frist coment> seems to be a real hindrence for some people . all the talk and airs and such are the main focus so learning and doing never gets done <this is directly related to low self confidence and the need for postion in socal group>

    heres an example of one person i talked to couldent get passed that stuff . i think thay could do verry well and gain skill very quickly if thay jsut when back to basics and did the exersizes and studys we all need to do . basic perspective and the like . well this person was a sceenster and would liek to think them self verry hip i think. and used the dreded words "my work" quite a bit . i spent quite a bit of time jsut trying to get them to do jsut basic prespctive ! verry basic i even tryed to do it withthem . but like thay couldent even do it .. well wouldent even attempt it !!!! i think psycologicly it may have been that if thay did it cuz i suggested it that that would make them not as cool as me or some shit so thay wouldent .and ive sene what thay are up to recently and wouldent you know it its the exact same thing as befor . still saying "look at this crap from last week "


    ego and concern about our self image must <i think >be squashed out should be a non issue if were serious . socal postion games have their own place but thay dont really have a place in geting down to buisness and take up much more time and energy then thay give back .<this is probably the idea behind school uniforms >

    learning studieing and being a superhero give back far more energy then you put in thats how you know its the right way .<its this way with relationships also good ones give back far more energy then we put into them and bad ones .. well you knwo how thay are >

    gota do it the learning thing cuz ya love it and thats that !

    man i wish i was rich id invite all of ca out for coffie !!

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    Once again Liam, you are totally on the money - and I generally am pretty supportive, because I know its a defense mechanism, but it gets pretty tiring sometimes.

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    It's kinda like the raised by wolves syndrome, where you have to learn how to interpet other peoples' state of mind in order to predict their reactions. Some people learn that, some don't.
    You have to look at society in general to understand the 'ego' though.

    Alot of people seem defensive and to a certain extent paranoid because they worry about their social standing.....and I don't think they get that way all by themselves.

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    oh man for shure but its liek little kids godamn can thay be anoying but you cant really hold it agenst them .. now when thay grow up and know better thats a diffrent story lol
    but i think for the most part most dont know any better .. like your guy above said he learned by example . thay have this illusionary idea of waht "artest" is and try to aproximate that .

    old men fart in public markets but in the end thay were jsut there to get some shoping done . old men are great because thay dont have any need for postion just apples .

    most of the time when people get underour skin and we think thay should do things diffrently i think we should rember that when you come out of the womb no one hands you and instruction manual .you gota kinda make your own way .and in the same way let people make their own way . you can point in a direction but cant really make some one go that way . you can say that might not be the right way to go but you can keep them from going that way either .

    some one said " you cant force a man to stop drinking a dirty glass of watter but you can show them a cleen one "

    and ghandi said when asked once about his teachings .. he said " my life every day that is my teaching "

    so its cool and the gang you keep sketchin and leting them know theres other ways to go )!!!

    mm you kik ass man and you do this quite a bit in your sketch book thread .. many many good words from you for people who read them keep on keepini on


    then agean if thay really get on your tits stick them in the eye with your pencil

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    Do you think artists have alot of empathy?

    Hell no

  17. #16
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    Do you think artists have alot of empathy?

    Hell no
    Yeah, I might be talk'n outta my buttocks. They're probably just as diversified as construction workers........some of them drink a six pac on the job and swear at each other all day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Man
    Btw, anyone come across the types of artists who like to depreciate their work - like "this is some crap i did on the weekend", trying to illicit some praise to de-bunk their self professed crapness?
    I think it is more to the give the reader the thought "oh he is way better then this anyway" so no one thinks they suck outright.
    My work: [link]

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    nosee


    social postion games have their place . ego has its place too.
    but when it functionaly impeeds progress in learning i think we have to recognize this and put it in its place .

    and no its not exactly by them self that thay pick up on stratigies of behavior . and most of the time thay run like back ground programs and we arnt even aware of them . <and at that point i dont think you could really hold it agenst any one for useing them >but when you know the reason for them and recognize them .. then its of corse our choice to contiue to use them .

    wehn you build a model for your behaivor .. or stratigies for doing a thing .. if it works go with it if not get rid of it or adjust it . in the case talked about earler you must really beable to and to seperate the issues . is being and angsty artest type to get the hot chick in the room .. or to get your parents to pay for art school cuz it seems like the easy way <hell art class in highscool was a blow off class right ?>
    or is being an artest .. and beinig able to transmit your ideas and observations the goal ?... if its the later then better to drop that other jazz and get down to bizness !


    blue oh yah thats the effect thay going for for shure !


    plenty of time later and plenty of other venues to play the socal game ) for now play the art game

  20. #19
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    Emotional balanced persons with good emotional inteligence have good
    empathy, I mean lots of artists had the most annoying personalities,
    Picasso was a biching bastard, Dalí was not very emotional stable either,
    Michael Angelo was very rude, so does Beethoven and Degas had some
    bad treats well:

    "Hitherto the nude has always been represented in poses which presuppose
    an audience. But my women are simple, honest creatures who are concerned
    with nothing beyond their physical occupations... it is as if you were looking
    through a keyhole."

    "I don't admit that a woman draws that well!
    (Edgar Degas on Mary Cassatt) df"

    I dont mean this guys were unempathic persons, what Im saying is
    that they were just as capable of beeing rude as any other person,
    art is a part of an artists life but I dont belive this should define how
    empathic you are in every time, for me at least it an outlet for my thoguths
    and ideas, but every one in this world have diferent way to express their
    thinking and emotions, we would need to define what an artist is, for example
    my brother is a really great computer coder and for him his work is art, for me
    almost everyjob or action in the world that is made with enought passion and
    devotion can be considered art, so the ablibyt to be emphatic just because
    your are an artist is imo not based on solid grounds, Im not a particularly
    emphatic person, I think I fall in a middle ground, but I LOVE to draw, it has
    aways has been my escape from the world, I think that if there is a way to
    gauge how empathic a person is, the fact you like to paint and draw is not a
    defining point, now that you feel the need to help the dying and starving
    people of Calcuta like Mother Teresa thats pure unadulterated empathy, and
    imo I have not seen to many artists trying to save the poor (with the
    exception of good old Van Gogh he he), so no I dont think artist are more
    empathic than most people, I mean we can be empathic, but just as much
    or less as any other people in the whole wide world.
    Last edited by maxetormer; August 26th, 2005 at 10:31 PM.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSeRider
    Do you take the Andy Warhol approach where "Why do people think artists are special? It's just another job."...approach.
    That's how I work. Its just another job.


    But that don't mean you don't get frustrated or emotional, we're all still humans. Just go out there and do your job. Emphaty is like knowledge of anatomy....you don't need to do an exercise/project to prove you have it....it should exist in your work when you do it.



    .
    ********************************
    There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and THE TRUTH.

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    I hate Andy Warhol. If he were alive today, he'd use lensflare and other photoshop filters.

    I'm not usually empatehtic but then again, there are times when I'm very empathetic. I don't know if other peopel are liek that, but personally I'll go through little phases of totla apathy or I'll lean towards empathy. I don't think my artistry has much to do with it really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Man
    Btw, anyone come across the types of artists who like to depreciate their work - like "this is some crap i did on the weekend", trying to illicit some praise to de-bunk their self professed crapness?
    Only everyday here on the CA boards...They even title their threads and sketchbooks like that!

    As for "empathy," I call it "Artsy Fartsy" syndrome. You get more than 3 artists together, and sooner than later, they'll start with the discussion of Muses, patrons, showings, galleries that might be interested in them, and grandiose plans for all artists everywhere to band together and increase the public's awareness of all the Talent just waiting for people to buy their "crap..." Of course, the extreme proliferation of galleries out here (sometimes, I think we're only second to Taos), propagates the illusion that everyone who draws is an undiscovered "artiste," and that every doodle is a masterpiece worth thousands of dollars.

    I offered to buy a work from an artist friend, just to help him meet his rent. It was a very, VERY crude "modernistic" blob of white and yellow acrylic, with some horizontal and vertical black and blue lines...painted on a large piece of cardboard from a moving box...archival quality, it definitely was not...I figured he'd say $20 to $50...my jaw dropped when he said, "Well, I think it's worth about $800 to $850 or so..." I just nodded, and declined the purchase...He didn't make his rent that month, ended up being evicted, and the "cardboard masterpiece" ended up all squished and in the trash...I laughed. That's an "artsy-fartsy" for ya!

    ~M
    Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional
    I am The Choosen One!
    Jason sez: Draw more from Life!


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    empathy, no i dont tihnk so...even tho im not frnds with any "real" artists, were all just a bunch of regular dudes who draw and stuff in our free time. Pretty down to earth and chill, laid back. Nothing like madster explained....maybe im just not an artist cuz i lack some kkind of tude..hahahhaha

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    I mean lots of artists had the most annoying personalities,
    Picasso was a biching bastard, Dalí was not very emotional stable either,
    Michael Angelo was very rude, so does Beethoven and Degas had some
    bad treats well
    From what I observe if you're in an art industry cooperative environment, you do have to be empathic if you expect to get along with your coworkers......the Disney Instructor was always making comments about sharp elbows and playing well with others.

    If you want to be a fine artist, well yeah be the biggest peckerhead you wanna be as long as you got ability, but I don't think that works in the 'industry'.....that is game industry, cartoon animation so forth.

    And I believe you sense that because alot of you go out of your way to compliment each other on each other's abilities.

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    I depreciate my stuff but more out of a sarcasm sometimes like magicman said to get a reply. I dont know bout empathy but people who know me see me as a nce guy who s willing to help out a friend with need of being repaid. I am not into artsy fartsy and also hate labels, I mean I am a angry mean mf at times especially when I feel people are getting ito my space and really like drinking.

    I was like this when I wanted to be a anthropolgist scientist or engineer when I was a child and I also did quite abit of drawing before I decided to become a artist when that happened it seemed all of a sudden my previous moments of anger where just angsty moments of concentration. It was really only border line homicidal rage.

    One more thing about the depreciation thing I like to do that so I dot get a oer inflated ego it is great to sit down and have awork in progress and think wow all those years of practice are paying of.

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