"Bring 'em On" - 2005.08.27 need opinion to finalize
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  1. #1
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    "Bring 'em On" - 2005.08.27 need opinion to finalize

    Last edited by andreasrocha; August 27th, 2005 at 02:20 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Hi man looks nice. The first things that pop to mind; Longer wilder hair, longer dress(dont know the right word my bad)maybe even reaching out of the frame, one foot slightly lifting from the ground - as if shes ready to jump. The blood on the sword is too close to the red hair, move it up a bit maybe. Look forward to seeing how it turns out - already looking nice.

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    The posture doesn't make much sense offensively or defensively, and I'd add a dagger on her belt for backup but aside from that, her feet pointing away from us but her chest to the left looks contorted, perhaps draw her left foot pointing to the left. And sorry to say it, but the back of a character is not as interesting as the front... The way the hair is painted makes it look a bit like you were too lazy to paint her face, perhaps if she were looking down and to the left in concentration or something, you could show part of her face through the hair, I think it would add immensly to the piece. And like the Fellah said; why is she wearing those rags? With such fancy armour, surely she can afford dress that is not all ragged-looking?

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    With the part in the back of her head like that, her hair is effectively blowing on both sides of her face, blinding her to any approaching enemies. This adds emphasis to the feeling that you can't draw a face or proportionally correct head shape, so you decided to try to "fake" it.

    The bad anatomy is compounded by her too low breast, and the funky backward tilt of her shoulders and upper sternum area. If you try to stand in that pose, you'll find gravity starting to push you over backwards, even without the large, unwieldy, sword she is unable to swing, since she can't see what she's doing...

    She also needs to see her hairdresser and touch up those roots...

    ~M

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  5. #5
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    Thanks Fellah and Silly. I'll take your comments into account. Can't say the same for madster. Even, if you are right about what you are saying, you could surely improve your way of saying it.

    I'll work more on it, and post an update later. Thanks, guys.

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    Although Madster may come off as mean and cruel, he puts alot of time into giving good solid criticizm just because he dosen't give you cookies dosen't mean hes not trying to help.

    Anyways I'm curious if there is a 9/11 symbolism in the piece the background brings back alot of memories and this looks like no acciedent >


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    I agree with Madster, and also, she doesn't look to have calves.
    I'd be curious to see the sketch behind this, it's important to have anatomy that makes sense before starting to slap hair/skirts and armor over it.

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    UPDATE 01 - 2005.08.21



    Fellah - Thanks for the suggestions although I didn't implement them. I guess the hair wasn't working so I decided to "catch" it and show a bit of her face. I did change her footstance, though, but not in the way you suggested. I think that lifting her foot would create too much unbalance. I removed the blood from the blade.

    Silly - I changed her stance a bit making it a bit more aggressive. I added the dagger...thanks for the suggestion. I tried rotating her left foot to the left but it looked strange so I left it.
    I am showing her back because I want the viewer to share her point of view, seeing the approaching army. And I don't think that seeing a character from the back is uninteresting. I think it adds mistery to the scene, making us wonder what she look like from the front. I decided to change the hair, too, so we can see a bit of her face. About the rags, they should also show that this is not the first battle she is in and I think what Fellah was suggesting was making them even longer.
    Thanks for the criticism and suggestions.

    KodiMynatt - a bit paranoid? 9/11???

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    is that bump her bicep or breast? i cant tell

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    Main Loop - It's supposed to be her breast...I will try to make it more obvious...

    Last edited by andreasrocha; August 22nd, 2005 at 01:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreasrocha
    Thanks Fellah and Silly. I'll take your comments into account. Can't say the same for madster. Even, if you are right about what you are saying, you could surely improve your way of saying it.

    I'll work more on it, and post an update later. Thanks, guys.
    Aw, gee. Just because I spelled out what looks wonky, and didn't kiss you on the forehead, means I don't know squat...'scuse me while I run to my room in e-tears...

    Take the advice or leave it. At lease now you'll hopefully have your ego in better check when you think your work belongs in Finally Finished and gets shuffled over here. Ingratitude and an attitude...nothing new, but nothing that will help you improve in the long run, either...

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  12. #12
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    Thanks Madster. Much appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by madster
    Aw, gee. Just because I spelled out what looks wonky, and didn't kiss you on the forehead, means I don't know squat...'scuse me while I run to my room in e-tears...

    Take the advice or leave it. At lease now you'll hopefully have your ego in better check when you think your work belongs in Finally Finished and gets shuffled over here. Ingratitude and an attitude...nothing new, but nothing that will help you improve in the long run, either...

    ~M

    Quite being an asshole Madster. Just about every damn thread you touch turns to shit. You've already had your ass thoroughly whipped and often a lot of your crit is just overblown opinion masquerading as fact.

    I for one much prefer the long hair thing, I agree in having a bit of her face showing through it and perhaps a slightly more agressive stance. I don't think her breasts were too low at all, a real female doesn't have hellium filled balloons attached to her chest.

    A little more shape for the calves (though he IS wearing boots which will hide some of her shape) would be nice as well as some more definition all round in terms of shapes and such...

    I think in the updated piece her thighs look at uneven lengths a little, though thats part of the perspective... also, for a well toned warrior her thighs seem a little skinny... with such tight pants some more muscle shape could be a little more eveident in the outlines.

    Overall I like the expression and that wild almost... feral look in her pose in the first one. I think i the second piece that feel was dampened a lot, I don't know if that was your intention but she looks like she's just been in some kind of battle, thus the rags etc, so why would her hair be in perfect order.

    Overall though, I love the theme you've gone with, the fact that you've chosen NOT to show the face says to me that you've got an ability with expression through pose and atmosphere.

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    Thanks, Writtenshadow. Now this is what I call constructive criticism. Hear that, Madster?

    I will try to make her hair wilder...and make a compromise between the two versions. Thanks for pointing it out.

    I will correct the legs overall like you suggested.

    Great analyzing! Thanks!

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    WrittenShadow,you can blow me. I can post my opinion here just as freely as you can. You don't like it, tough. Contain your comments to the Original Poster, and his work, not me, 'cause you won't change me, nor my abilities to post here. You certainly can't be THAT dense, are you? All this "ass whippin' " you be talkin' 'bout sure doesn't seem to leave much bruising on the Internet, now does it? I'm still standin'...

    andreas, the funky bend in her upper back still looks deformed, and although the smaller breast looks better, as does her head with the hair more disciplined, the angle of the shoulders back so severely throws the entire chest off balance.



    When you ask for criticism, you can't pick and choose what criticisms are allowed...only whether you choose to implement them.
    ~M

    Last edited by madster; August 22nd, 2005 at 03:16 AM.
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    Warning: I'm pretty tired and prone to rambling... sowee.

    You think this is the bad Madster? You haven't seen nothin' ! .. and hopefully we never will again.

    I'd like to see more facts and less "emotion" in peoples posts; and certainly don't post if you don't care about improving the skill of your fellow man, don't post if you feel it's a waste of time and don't post to stroke your own ego people. You'd just be wasting time.

    Anyways, my god what this piece really has going for it is the color. Such beautiful color. (I dig the textures too.) The elbow is really where I get annoyed though... you forgot to put the top joint of the elbow armor back in the redesign by the way. I think perhaps... the elbow needs to come closer to the viewer.

    The swords ... (orientation?) also bugs me a little bit, the way she is holding it now I don't think she would be able to hit with either edge, only the flat part (which might just end up breaking it). An edge should face us I think (I know... the flat sword looks sweet right now...) I also think some forshortening may be in order because it looks like it is resting on/in her head (or near it).

    Also the shading on the buttocks in the updated version throws me off.. I think mainly in where the warm ground reflection meets near the cool blue-violet reflection. The leg doesn't feel... normally attached to the rest of the body.

    The dress is forcing my eye out of the picture just a little bit, I think you should figure out a way to counter act that a little, maybe it's just as simple as changing the shape and direction...

    Well... enough garbage out of my mouth, keep us updated !

    P.S. Madster... thanks for the 2nd reference... hotdamn.

    Last edited by Idiot Apathy; August 22nd, 2005 at 03:53 AM.
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    Something I have noticed with others who change their work based on crits (and my own as well) is that sometimes by taking people's advice too eagerly, the "vision" of a work seems to become muddled, like, even if the original attempt had various flaws, it often has a directness that gets lost when the artist tries to put in other people's ideas, rather than their own. Does anyone else ever get that impression?

    So I will refrain from suggestions about the completely different pose that I would use to try to express this scene, or about relevant longsword techniques and details of armour... it is fantasy, after all.

    I forgot to mention, I also like the colours.

    The original hair had something that seems a pity to lose. Perhaps compromise and give her a ponytail?

    The pose (still) seems to have a number of problems. I have to agree with madster that the chest and shoulders don't seem to come together very well. With the change to her legs, her left leg, particularly the upper one, looks shorter than her right. I also have the impression that her ass is too large, vertically. Or is this just me? Anyway I can't seem to figure out which way her hips are really supposed to be pointing.

    It is also true her calves look underdeveloped. And the junk you put in the foreground looks like it's only there to hide that you had problems with her right foot, and it is not working...
    You will probably hate this suggestion, but perhaps it would be best to make some separate sketches of just her naked pose, and fix the image once you get her pose right, rather than trying to do this on the image itself.

    I might try to doodle something for her pose, but not today, I'm too tired.

    EDIT: I suddenly remembered I once drew something a bit similar, it's very old though... I would hope I have improved since then

    Last edited by Silly; August 22nd, 2005 at 04:20 PM.
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    why did this turn into a madster thread as apposed to a helping andreasrocha thread??? anyways.. everyone has good points... But, i think her pose is a bit static.. although we tighten our muscles up when we're about to fight a good fighter will remain loose and the body lanuage will tell us this... Im pretty sure if you threw on conan's red sonya you could freeze frame a find a suitable pose, however the corrections you have made are def. going in the right direction... I like the tilt of the body she looks like she more stable now.. I do think she should be a bit more built.. shes a warrior and warriors are usually built... I would give he strong legs and a broader back... being thats how you generate power... also, i liked the way the hair looked before you threw it into a bun... with the hair blowing in the wind you are giving some motion to the artwork... the last suggestion is that rag or skirt she has on needs to be more defined.. im sure it not near done but, there needs to be something more there... great work keep it up..

    Mainloop- man i must be dyslexic.. cuz i thought you asked how many people are on lsd

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    Taking into consideration most of what has been said, here is an update. The main change is the stance of her legs. I've been going around and around with these, and finally I decided for a more poetic stance, and not really a realistic, combat one. It's as if she was meditating before confronting the incoming army.




    WrittenShadow - Thanks for the support and criticism. I tried to bring back some of the flowing hair to add some drama. I also gave her legs more shape. Since she is wearing not so tight clothes I don't know if the body underneath needs more definition. Great analysis on the legs, by the way. Thanks. I hope to have corrected most issues with this new update.

    Idiot Apathy - Thanks, man. Wise words. About the elbow...I changed the clothes a bit so I hope it makes more sense now. Great criticism on the sword. I think it helped a lot, though it's not easy to play with perspective with such a thin object. I shortened her "waist rags". They were probably too long. Thanks for pointing it out.

    Silly - Nice thought...but I think that if you take into account ALL of the suggestions you always come up with something better. The most important thing is to get various opinions. Hmm, about the hair, I tried to give it back the feeling of STEP 1. I tried to implement the back/legs/ass suggestions. I hope it looks better now.

    vigostar - Thanks...help is always appreciated. You probably hate this new stance, after what you said. I just thought I could give her stance a more poetic feeling and a less warrior/aggressive one. I "strengthened" her legs, so I hope they look better now. Perhaps I'll build up her torso, too.

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    hey, i like the different colors in the costume.. i broke up the orange.. very nice... keep it up.. ive seen your work before i know this will come out nicely..

    Mainloop- man i must be dyslexic.. cuz i thought you asked how many people are on lsd

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    i like the new one much more. she looks like she is in a more natural position, and looks ready for movement. very cool. i love the colors, really nice on the eye.

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    I don't know, I kind of miss the warmer areas of dust at the feet of the oncoming army and the little warm bits strewn about.

    Contrast with warm and cool is very important but I think it reads strong enough (or too strong?) that you could tie it in together just a little bit, for some consistancy and balance?

    Otherwise really digging the changes and details.

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    The use of the orange and blue in this piece is VERY, VERY strong. I like to find things I admire about other's work that I find I lack skill in. The color use and application is what I admire most in this one. I think you have made great progression in the different stages, too. Awesome.

    -Brian

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    It has gotten much better. She still doesn't have very shapely calves but it makes sense with boots and pants.

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    This is an almost final version. I would like to know what you think I can improve. Thanks.



    vigostar - thanks!

    jabberwookie - I hope her stance still looks "natural"...Thanks

    Idiot Apathy - thanks for pointing it out...I hope you don't get the same impression any more. The contrast between warm and cold is even strnonger now. I hope it doesn't look worse. Thanks.

    zTu - It's great that people are liking the color scheme. It was not a really conscious choice from the beginning. It just started happening.

    qitsune - Thanks...

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  26. #26
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    Well...it's nearing completion. I made a two different color versions. Please let me know which one you prefer.

    Thanks for all the help.



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    'A'
    Good job on fixing the flaws. This came out quite well.

    ~M

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    Beautiful work man!

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    A, for the reasons I said above!

    Nice!

    -B

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