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  1. #1
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    Fuck Social Security.

    Last week I went to the social security office becuase, by my own fault I'll admit, I lost track of my own card. My room has eaten it, so I need a new one. For a flimsy piece of perforated paper, that you are not supposed to copy or laminate or take other protective measures for, a lot of importance is put on it. Bad enough to be known by the government by only a number, but just knowing the number isn't enough, oh no, you need the card.

    You see, I need my SS card to get a drivers liscence or my Texas state I.D., so that I can get a job or open a bank account. I cannot do that without my Spcial Security card.

    So, again, I went to the social securtiy office last week so I'd be able to do aformentione things. The place was fairly full and there were two tellars windows(or w/e theyre called) open out of 5. We took a number andwaited for a while. After maybe 30-45 minutes another window opened and a lady asked everyone who hasn't 'signed in' to do so now. So we signed in and went back to waiting. We waited. I'm pretty good at waiting I think, in that I don't whine or complain while doing so. I am bad afterwards especially when nothing gets done, smoldering anger intensifies into a molten, firey rage. But that wasn't then, so we were waiting and hungry. After 2 hours we finally get called and we hand the paperwork to the lady and she asks for two sources of identification to verify that I am me.

    We show her my birth certificate, my school I.D., and health insurance.

    They don't accept my birth certificate, apparently all it shows that I was born, that I was born. My birth isn't enough to verify I am me. Fine ok whatever, I can see that since there's no photo.

    My school ID isn't good enough because it doesn't have my date of birth on it. The health insurance isn't good enough because my mother(I am 17 atm) and I aren't on the same card. Nor are we ever. They never fit us all on one card. The lady says her and I must be on the same card for soem reason. No clue why. So basically we drove all the way there to wait over 2 hours to find out we can get nothing. The lady suggests I get or show her a drivers liscence or texas state ID to verify I'm me. Two things that I can't get w/o my SS card, two things I need to prove to that I'm me. She also says maybe a report card or a school transcript might work. If I'd had them I'm sure it'd be printed on a tone of white paper they just don't accept.

    So whatever, we go to my school to request a transcript and my mom later tries to schedule an appointment so we don't have to wait again when we revisit. She calls and waits again for an hour, and later finds out the call is considered long distance. When she finally gets to someone she finds out in less than a minute that they cannot schedule appointments for SS. Only medicare or medicaid or w/e program theyre raping the elderly with these days.

    We went again today and it was packed. There was no place to sit in the offices that foster SS, medicaid and medicare or w/e. These things should have separate offices. Anyway, we get out number again, fill otu the paperowrk and wait for about 30 minutes. In that time, one person got finished with whatever he was doing, and he had been there since before we got there. There were 2 windows open. It was not lunchtime.

    As there is no place to sit and I'm in no mood to stand, I take a seat an empty area of these tables they have attatcehd to the wall. I wear ~130, there is no way I'd be causing any harm to these things. The prick-a-cop there has a lady who's going to my direction to slip some mail somewhere tell me to get of his counter or /we he called them. Notice he said "his".

    Aparently I'm in these fuckers house, that or this old man is the physical epmbodiment of the united states government. If the latter is true, I'd like to rip off his balls, saute them, and have myself some mother fucking lunch.

    So I get off for a few minutes, but honestly, I don't feel like standing, I'm not going to stand, standing would demeen me as a human being, it is now a cause. I'm not standing.

    So I sit back down.

    I must note I am causing no noe near me any trouble or disturbing anyone. The cop or security officer or w/e is on the other side of the room in a rolyl chair behind a desk that's taller than him. I am doing nothing to disturb anyone. He comes over, taps me on the shoulder, and asks me to "get off his counters". I get up and look at him and am about to speak, he looks at the ground and walks back over to his chair. I hope he heard me questioning his ownership of the fucking counter.

    I also hope more than the people immediately heard me remark on how it's no wonder people hate this country, but it is a wonder there aren't more bombings.

    My mom was treated poorly by that same prcik when she asked a simple question, and we left shortly thereafter as we were going no where.

    All this for a flimsy piece of blue paper, before anyone jumps on me since it is my responsibility to keep track of a piece of paper my ntire life, I admit I'm at fault for losing it. I am not at fault for the misplaced importance in the card or the system. Social sSecurity is for what? To help out some people with no foresight to have their own retirement funds or people who simply couldn't afford it? That's all well and good, but by the time I'm old enough will there be any left anyway? Do away with that shit.

    The government can give me a number, make me that number, change my name to that number, I don't care. Just don't make me worry about this fucking card, or eventually take my money to supposedly give it back to me. My furutere is my responsibility, if I turn 60 and realize I have no money, that's my problem. The government should worry about protecting me from foreign attack, making sure theres roads and things of that sort. Not shit like this, not stopping me from doing drugs, not stopping euthanasia. Also note, I do not do drugs, or smoke or drink fro that matter. But I am 100% for the legalization of those things(the ones that ARE illegal anyway).

    I know many of you have probably expericence similiar things, worse even. 2 hours isn't THAT long, but it's too long to get nothing done. I'm positive there are people who waited much, much longer than I did. And it's rediculous.

    Fuck social security. Fuck waiting. And fuck beady-eyed, armed, squatty men with uniforms.


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  3. #2
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    *pats/slaps you on the back* Welcome to the world of burocracy. Oh and don't forget to stare at those beady-eyed slobs sitting behind their counters/desks drinking coffee like they're criminals next time you're there. Also them give (or the guards) steely grins - works every time when you wanna get ahead of line and someone tries to move in front of you.

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    Ever heard of a passport? It can work wonders.

    And yes, it's all your fault. And yes, if you go into any government office expecting good service, you're insane. That's not a good thing by any stretch of the imagination, but that's the way it is.

    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren


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    What a wonderfull system! I plan on having a great retirement on my SS!
    In fact, I'm happy to consider it another tax I just love paying for! I sure hope our big ass , buerocratic, BS gov't doesn't get rid of it, becuase it REALLY is doing our contry sooo much good!

    This is supposed to be a Democratic / Capitalist country ...yet we run one the the largest Socialist systems in the world! And it's an utterly failure. What an irony.

    I can't wait to see the "NATIONAL ID CARD" system....WAIT, isn't our social securty card for that? WTF knows anymore????
    "If one advances confidently in the direction of
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    unexpected in common hours."
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    In Argentina we have national identity documents (called DNI's). You need them for everything, loose it, and you don't get a replacement, just some paper that says you lost it. And if that happens, bureaucratic hell gets even more... hellish.

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    Pretty much the same as in Singapore.

    I've personally lost mine TWICE. How's that for being careless? Replacing it cost me $600 bucks already....that;s like US$450

    When you go to the bank to apply for a replacement Automated Teller card, they need your ID....err..lost with the wallet.

    When I need to get into any Military Installation. Err, I lost my Military ID...so where's your national ID? Err...its lost together with the military ID.

    That's why I always have an updated copy of my passport ready in case shit happens.



    And yeah....its OUR fault. Unfortunately.
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    This post made me smile. Reminds me of the DMV. But its only funny when it happens to someone else.
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    I feel abit like captain obvious now.. but why not just memorize your social security number? Thats what i did. Im not sure how long an american social security number is, but it couldnt possibly be longer than a couple of phonenumbers..

    Or do you have to have the actual piece of paper the number is printed on?



    Anyways, i feel for you man, i've been cruising the offices quite a few times, and i know how frustrating it is to wait for eternity, just to realize that nothing can be done.. or that i have to go find another line to stand in.


    //edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMech
    just knowing the number isn't enough, oh no, you need the card.
    .
    i apologize for not reading your post thoroughly enough. That sucks... what is on the card? is there a photo? other info?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Blue
    Reminds me of the DMV.
    jesus god, dont get me started on the DMV's we've got in CT. You know exactly what I'm talking about too. I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon than go to the DMV in danbury...


    but shit Mech, that blows real hard. If only there was a way to combine all 3 of those IDs you had with you. Like take the picture from your school ID and throw it on your birth certificate, along with all the jazz on your insurance card.
    Also, ive never heard of having two people on one insurance card. Ive had mine all my life, and its always just had my info on it.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMech

    The government can give me a number, make me that number, change my name to that number, I don't care. Just don't make me worry about this fucking card, or eventually take my money to supposedly give it back to me. My furutere is my responsibility, if I turn 60 and realize I have no money, that's my problem. The government should worry about protecting me from foreign attack, making sure theres roads and things of that sort. Not shit like this, not stopping me from doing drugs, not stopping euthanasia. Also note, I do not do drugs, or smoke or drink fro that matter. But I am 100% for the legalization of those things(the ones that ARE illegal anyway).
    We just witnessed the birth of a Libertarian.

    Welcome to the club!
    Last edited by CaptainInsano; August 15th, 2005 at 10:24 PM.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advocate of Fate
    jesus god, dont get me started on the DMV's we've got in CT. You know exactly what I'm talking about too. I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a spoon than go to the DMV in danbury...
    I get renewed at AAA. hehe.
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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMech
    Social sSecurity is for what? To help out some people with no foresight to have their own retirement funds or people who simply couldn't afford it? That's all well and good, but by the time I'm old enough will there be any left anyway? Do away with that shit..

    ..Fuck social security.
    The social security program is thus:

    It provides retirement income for 38 million retired workers, their spouses or survivors. Also it provides disability benefits to 6 million or so workers, along with 1.6 million children. 4 million children who are either disabled or whose parents died at an earlier time, or whose parents are disabled are also covered under the program. Nearly 90 percent of the elderly in this country receive Social Security and half of those would be below the poverty line without the program. For two-thirds of the elderly Social Security provides half or more of their income. For a forth of the elderly population, Social Security provides 90 percent of their income. Let us also remember that the elderly in the nation, many of whom are pre-baby boomers, WWII - Vietnam era adults, did not have access to such retirement programs that are prevalent today. Many rely on a mix of social security, pensions, or other savings to get by.

    The women who benefit from Social Security account for about 60 percent of the applicable elderly. They are less likely to be pensioners or possessors of substantial wealth or savings.

    Now, before you start cursing a program because of a terrible day spent in bureaucratic morass, you may like to evaluate just what the program stands for and who it benefits. Saying such things as "Fuck social security" or "what is it for?" demonstrates a vast ignorance and lack of empathy on your part. Indeed, the process is a bitch, and the red tape is ominous. And regardless of your inherent responsibility for your own future, which every man and woman must take an active role in securing themselves, without such programs there would be massive societal repercussions if so many elderly, disabled, or financially unstable people were allowed to descend into poverty. You may want to go ask an elderly relative about what they think of the system as a whole.

    As for there being none left why the time you grow up, that’s completely untrue. If indeed such trends of deficit are allowed to snowball, there indeed will be a reckoning. However as it stands Social Security will be able to pay out into the next century. For any emerging problems the tax system can be restructured, (such as actually instituting true progressive taxation on the wealthy and corporations) removing the cap, or changing the eligibility of potential beneficiaries based on age or financial standing.

    Before you completely discount the system, research it and realize how many people it keeps from living in the gutter.
    Last edited by Helium Macaroni; August 15th, 2005 at 10:46 PM.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

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    Helium Macaroni- thanks! I've actually been trying to come up with good reasons to keep Social Security. I knew getting rid of the program was bull since Bush started his crusade against it (whatever happened to that, anyway?) It's obviously helping people, at least currently and for the past 60-some years. But BlueMech's post makes a really good point- the system, like so many other things in the country, is totally bogged down by a bureaucratic mess. I sympathize completely, and I'm sure everyone else here hates the runaround just as much. Unfortunately, its another problem with no obvious solution. Both the bureaucracy and the potential future lack of funds (Which, as Helium Macaroni points out, may not be the problem it was made out to be, but who can say?) have no obvious solution at this point. Because of the political runaround that leads to the bureaucratic runaround, it can sometimes be difficult to tell if a problem even exists or if someone just made it up.

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    Oh the whole charade surrounding "reforming" SS is such a sham. Its been a history of most supply-side economic subscribers to want to dismantle Social Security. Goldwater and Regan wanted it gone.

    Personally I loved the talk bush gave where he sat next to file cabinet full of government treasury bonds and refered to them as "worthless IOU's." Well Mr President, i'd be happy to buy those "worthless IOU's" of federally insured government issued tender that most of the world bases a significant amount of investment on for pennys on the dollar.

    And I totally agree with the horrid nature of government offices, from courts, to the DMV, to Social Security. That however doesn't represent the solvency of the system, thats just the logistical obsticle that stands in the way of efficiency. And that can be solved with Hyper-intellegent civil-servant cyborgs!
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

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    The cop was right. No one wants your ass on the table.

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    Heh you think that's bad? Try getting a paper, any paper, in a Russian office. It takes months... MONTHS of waiting for them to process you. The people that work there don't give two shits about you. Sometimes you can be there the whole day waiting and wondering where the fuck they are because they aren't even in the office and when they comeback there's no explanation as to where exactly they were wasting your time. They behave as if they're some kind of royalty giving out favors or something and you're just shit. It's either that or you bribe (generally people bribe if they got the money and some person does whatever it is for you in about 10 mins).


    I absolutely disagree with you on the "fuck social security" point though. People fall through the cracks and that's what social security is for. You're just bitter about losing your card and the shitty service you got at the office. You haven't even stopped to think about what social security stands for and you're whole frustration stems directly from the red tape.

    I had my whole wallet stolen with ALL my id in it. How do you replace that? I still haven't (it's been 2 years). I can (I managed to dig up 2 id's one of which was my medicare card - the lady forgot to ask me for id while replacing it) but it takes forever (like 8 months to just get my citizenship card and another couple months for my social security care and then another month for the passport for me to be able to travel). And get this on top of it I found out several months ago that my social security number was highjacked and abused (This is the hilarious part though: I can't get any important stuff without the piece of plastic but anybody can just say my SIN number over the phone and get anything, car, cellphone, creditcard!!!). So there goes my credit rating and I haven't even taken out a single credit card LOL. See the problem is with the way the system works (it's easy to abuse) not with what it actually does. For me I just can't wait till the day when no one needs a paper. Biometrics: No more tiny-easily-lost-or-stolen-papers.

    http://www.pptc.gc.ca/faq/index_e.asp#700
    Last edited by LaPalida; August 16th, 2005 at 12:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaPalida
    Heh you think that's bad? Try getting a paper, any paper, in a Russian office. It takes months... MONTHS of waiting for them to process you. The people that work there don't give two shits about you. Sometimes you can be there the whole day waiting and wondering where the fuck they are because they aren't even in the office and when they comeback there's no explanation as to where exactly they were wasting your time. They behave as if they're some kind of royalty giving out favors or something and you're just shit. It's either that or you bribe (generally people bribe if they got the money and some person does whatever it is for you in about 10 mins).


    I absolutely disagree with you on the "fuck social security" point though. People fall through the cracks and that's what social security is for. You're just bitter about losing your card and the shitty service you got at the office. You haven't even stopped to think about what social security stands for and you're whole frustration stems directly from the red tape.

    I had my whole wallet stolen with ALL my id in it. How do you replace that? I still haven't (it's been 2 years). I can (I managed to dig up 2 id's one of which was my medicare card - the lady forgot to ask me for id while replacing it) but it takes forever (like 8 months to just get my citizenship card and another couple months for my social security care and then another month for the passport for me to be able to travel). And get this on top of it I found out several months ago that my social security number was highjacked and abused. So there goes my credit and I haven't even taken out a single credit card LOL. See the problem is with the way the system works (it's easy to abuse) not with what it actually does. For me I just can't wait till the day when no one needs a paper. Biometrics: No more tiny-easily-lost-or-stolen-papers.

    http://www.pptc.gc.ca/faq/index_e.asp#700
    I'll have to do the Demolition Man thing and tear out your eyeball to gain access to your house then. This...wont...hurt.

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    I'll have to do the Demolition Man thing and tear out your eyeball to gain access to your house then. This...wont...hurt.
    LOL How very subtle of you. So devious you are, so full of chickanery. But wait you don't need to do that to break into my house. You can just try to turn the knob see if it opens or just use the good old crowbar if ye lack a finess at lockpicking. However I don't see the point really, my house is just full of useless crates. Those damnable crates that you so much despise.

    ....Cratehater.
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    You're right my hate does spawn from the red tape, which I think in any system is rediculous. I realize that this shit happens, I realize i'll generally have to keep sucking this goddamned cock as the rest of you do, but I'm still gunna bitch about it.

    And honestly, about really elderly people who not on have barely any money to live on, but are just barely living, I don't understand why they keep going. I realize SS may be helping them continue, but if I get to that age and all I can or do all day is sit around taking meds, I don't see any reason to continue. But in America you're not allowed to kill yourself or have a doctor help. This point may be irreleavant.

    The cop was right. No one wants your ass on the table.
    They would when they realize I am higherb eing and touching anywhere I've touched makes them rise in the ranks of humanity accroding to certain cannons.

    But in seriousness, I do not currently have much empathy for the rest of mankind, maybe it's just a phase. I don't really care. And I'm sure I'd be more empathetic if I took the time to think of the people as people. Also I realyl wish they'd teach us how 'the system' works in school, in the government funded schools. I am taking gov't this year, but I've never counted on school to teahc me anything before.

    I'd take the mark of the beast if It made things easier. In modern times if those ol' christians are right afterall, I imagine it'd be some sort of subdermal chip or somesuch.

    I just really want to open a bank account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMech
    I don't see any reason to continue. But in America you're not allowed to kill yourself or have a doctor help. This point may be irreleavant.
    Heh, thats a whhoooole other issue.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

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    I don't see it as an issue, the only way it's an issue is in that the governemnt prevents you from doing something you should have the right to do.

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    Yeah! Who needs it! Oh yeah, my gradma, and probably yours!

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    you lknwo same thing happend to a friend of mine same thing well minus the cop thing . and i really thought he was jsut going for a laugh because when i frist got mine i jsut walked in and showed them <hmm birthcert. and dnna rember what eslse > this is 15 years ago mind you but it was no problum .
    but it seems thay changed the rules a little bit
    driverslicence and library card ,<oh yah that was my tother id for ss card >you could get with birth/and 2 pice of mail

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helium Macaroni
    The social security program is thus....

    That is your opinion on it. The SS system was designed to be a sham in the first place.. When it was developed, it was designed to pay out 5 years AFTER the life expectancy at the time. Isn't that the government for you! Too bad it backfired on them, and now they're not going to have enough.. But that just falls back on the citizens. What a mess. Now, years later people are living longer and the population is growing exponentially. There's no way it can keep up. The system is extremely out of date, especially considering it was badly designed in the first place. It may help some people have some sort of income now (some income, well below the line of poverty..), but if you look at the numbers, it is not going to keep up. You have to factor inflation into it as well. From what I see, payouts are going to drop while the cost of living increases. Anyone who thinks that the system is fine and doesn't need any type of reform is naive.

    As for private accounts, I'm all for that. I'm not relying on any money from social security in my retirement, so I'm making plans to be plenty wealthy when that time comes, but any money that is kept in my name and not put into any national pool would be great. I don't want to give my hard earned money away and see little (if any) of it back. I'd rather have the option to not contribute, and do my own retirement investing with that money, but that's never going to happen! It's too bad, since I could put my money to much better use for me.

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    What the.. wasn’t this thread dead?

    DragonGX, which parts do you consider my opinion? The part with the numbers?

    Anyway, those are the stats. And Social Security isn't supposed to be a full retirement program; it has however developed into such a situation it seems for some people. Pensions, individual retirement plans, etc are supposed to supplement it. What it is definitely however, is a safety net. I know my grandparents wouldn't be able to survive without it, or without Medicare. There is no doubt that a significant amount of people would be unable to manage without the program. Is its elimination worth the cost of so many people loosing their financial stability? Its sort of just common sense that problems such as these that would face individuals would eventually become society’s problem and we'd have to deal with them reactively instead of preventively. If indeed problems with the social security program emerge, which they will no doubt eventually, there are plenty of options to explore. One of them is removing the cap, allowing higher earners to provide more money into the system. I'm sure that prospect ruffles your feathers though. Or we could collect on the billions of dollars that corporations keep due to tax evasion. We could cut down on pork spending such as what was exhibited in that ghastly transportation bill and the energy bill. We could chop a percentage out of the nearly 400 billion dollar pentagon budget. Personal investment accounts backed by the federal government are a fine idea, on a separate level than social security. You want a retirement of your own? Fine, plan for it. But social security will still be there just incase your well laid plans of future wealth don’t work out. In my opinion I consider it a right for people to have. I think the benefits of keeping such a system outweigh the costs of removing it and jeopardizing its ability to remain as a safety net.

    I know your opinion on social benefits programs and it’s just where we disagree. I really don't care about income redistribution as long as it’s properly managed.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helium Macaroni
    What the.. wasn’t this thread dead?

    DragonGX, which parts do you consider my opinion? The part with the numbers?
    You gave numbers of who it serves. I don't see any numbers that would conclude that the system is fine for years to come. I never said that the system needs to be removed. I stated that it needs a major overhaul in order to keep up with factors that weren't thought about when it was designed, such as the populations financial recklessness, inflation, and the fact that people are living 30-40 years longer than they were anticipated to when the SS system was designed.

    I'm well aware of the fact that social security is supposed to supplement your retirement, but look at the way many Americans live today. Credit card debt is at a peak, and has no sign of decreasing, few people invest (due to the fact that finacial responsibility isn't a mandatory subject taught to everyone), and the fact that most people live well beyond their means. It seems very few people are concerned if they are saving enough to live on later in life, and more concerned with having the newest SUV or better toys than their neighbors have. Alot of people are going to be hurting later on in their life, and SS will be the only source of income for some of them. It would be nice if everyone could be financially responsible, but it seems that more and more aren't. Some people can't help it (accident victims, etc who have bad things happen), but alot of people can, and don't.

    Privatized accounts not connected to social security? That's the last thing we need. People bitch enough about having to pay what they pay for SS, they're not going to be happy taking any more money out of their checks.. Anyone who WANTS to invest will do so on thier own, the others will not. Besides, people can do better on their own (if they do their research) than any government program could.

    How about putting some of the money into finance classes in high school, maybe a few more people will learn to be responsible.. Although, as bad as it is, I don't know if that would even help. Plenty of people know they are in trouble financially, but do nothing to fix it, and often make it worse. Honestly, I don't think there is a solution, other than finding a way to fix the social security system, and I don't know if there really is a way. But anything is would be better than what is in place now. It may work for a while, but you have to look at the future, and how the trends of today are going to affect it.

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    Financial educatino shouldnt be that hard, most of it is common sense. Like realizing you shouldn't be spending money you don't have or won't have anytime soon. But sadly, more people do need education on how to handle money.

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    Yeah you’re right; I didn’t supply numbers as to its future. I’m sure if you google the issue you can get results. They will probably vary depending which side of the argument the source is on or if it’s an independent source.

    I'm in total agreement that coming problems will need to be addressed, however I don't see the huge fire that some do as to the immediate future, or the need to privatize a guaranteed benefits system. The largest problem I see with the system is the current spending bonanza that goes on with congress and the administration. I also see a problem with the surplus being spent on tax cuts and not put towards the SS trust fund. And while I'm sure some can argue that putting money back into the hands of individual Americans is a good thing (which it is) the tax cut money could have been put to better use helping to secure the collective future of a large segment of the population set to retire soon. Personally I don't know anyone who isn't suffering in some financial way even after receiving their tax refund money or anyone who's been able to save it, not to mention the rich received the better end of the deal.

    I'm going to agree that many people today aren't financially responsible, however I'd also like to point out that for much of the lower and middle class, many economic factors are working against them and preventing them from accumulating savings. Considering factors like record high healthcare costs, high energy and gas costs, inflated real estate prices, lack of affordable childcare, prices of consumer goods, and other economic factors, it’s no wonder no one is saving. I utilize 100% of my income. Just about everyone my age that I know does similarly. My parents, most of my extended family, and just about every other family I know not only uses at or near 100% of their income, and in addition they are saddled with debt. While I do agree that flagrant and wasteful lifestyles of contemporary Americans are partially to blame, I consider the overwhelming amount of costs to be causing more detriment than people’s appetites... I do agree people's appetites are larger than their pocketbook however. I wouldn’t blame the situation alone on teaching financial planning, but I think that it is indeed a huge part of the overall puzzle that needs to be addressed to secure stable futures for the countries citizens.

    I'm absolutely in agreement with teaching financial planning from a young age. Believe you me, I'm all about that personal responsibility stuff, I still however think that many in the middle and lower class should be allowed the right of having an income assistance program. I also think people should be encouraged to save, to plan, and to invest. Having a diversified palette to take from would certainly be the best solution, being able to have SS as a safety net, and have your personal retirement savings/pension/investment plan also. I also think that SS eligibility should be means tested. I personally don't think that if you are high above the need for SS that you should qualify to receive it. I'm talking about high earners here who draw income from large investments, chief corporate official positions, or otherwise substantial wealth. I see SS as much more of a working class benefits system.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

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    I'm not saying that there are going to be problems in the immediate future, but probably 20-30 years (possibly sooner) I think it will be in trouble.. I agree that the current administration has been spending ALOT of money, and some of it could be spent in much better places. Honestly, I don't have any better ideas on how to fix the system.. I don't like the fact that I'm losing money out of MY paycheck that I could better invest into my future (If I felt like donating to charity, I would, but I don't like a certain percentage of my check taken from me, since I doubt I'll ever see any of it (I'm sure not going to see what was taken from me given back in full). I don't want to see any more money taken from me to fix it. In a perfect world, everyone would think about their future and make plans for it, and the government wouldn't have to worry about supporting everyone and could focus on the people who need it, but this isn't a perfect world, so what can you do? Then again, I'm not a financial expert, I'm just a 22 year old who has no desire to get into the financial field.

    As far as not being able to save/invest (at the very least for retirement) I think anyone can. If you're spending 100% of your income, you need to change things in your life. Everyone has expenses they can stop, all it takes is will-power. Find ways to eat cheaper. Limit use of utilities. At the very extreme end, move somewhere cheaper to live. Is living in a big expensive city worth being broke your entire life and having no savings and no money for retirement? Is it worth going into debt just to pay monthly bills? There is no excuse for anyone who can get a job to not be able to save $50 a month. I know some people have an extremely hard time making ends meet, but it comes back to living a responsible life and having to take the consequences of your actions. No one is going to get anywhere spending every cent they make every month. Sadly way too many people live like that.

    If you save just $50 from each month and put it into an IRA, you'll have about (based on the average return of the stock market 10%) 178,876.08 by the time you retire.. That's saving $50 a month from age 25-60. If you had to, you could do less each month and still come out with alot more money than alot of people retire with. Many, I'm starting to sound like Tony Robbins and I'm getting WAY off topic!

    Anyways, I'm split on how I feel about the SS system.. I don't like having to pay for other people's reckless lifestyles and poor responsibility, especially when it diminishes the amount of wealth that I would be able to accumulate for me and my family. But at the same time I agree there should be some kind of government funded safety net, because it is inhumane for people to be unable to support themselves, even if they brought it upon themselves. I don't know how to fix it, because the system needs more money to be able to support the amount of people that will need it, and that means taking more out of the pockets of taxpayers.

    I think I'm going to end it here... I shouldn't have started debating about the SS system in the first place.. It's extremely frustrating, and all of this just makes me realize how screwed up EVERYTHING is! I really don't think that there is a solution, and the only way that the government is going to be able to support everyone it needs to is by taking more and more out of the pockets of its citizens. It doesn't really matter which political side you're on. I'm just glad I'm [most likely] going to be fine in the future...

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