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  1. #1
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    intro

    Painter 7 is the first program I open in the morning and the last program I close before I go to sleep.
    While I was at Siggraph last week I met with Wesley Pack Graphics Manager of Procreate , he was very helpfull in anwsering all my painter 7 questions, and very excited to hear my feedback on his software. I encourage everyone to share thier experience with painter 7 here, whats your favorite thing about it? how does it apply to your workflow? and what kind of features would you like to see added to Painter 8? if you have questions about painter 7, or have found problems with it you would like to adress, this is the place for that too.

    Painter 7 is my bread and butter when it comes to digital art. I dont know what I would do without it. With our feedback we can help Wesley make the next painter even more groundbreaking than the previous version.


    thanks

    Android

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  3. #2
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    Quick edit for Josh, You can reload previous version brushes I think.. Have you tried that yet??? Give it a shot..

    One of my biggest problems.. is the menu sizes..

    You can't colapse them horizontally only vertically to make for more workspace area... I constantly use the layers menu so I dont like to close it.. *havent bother to learn hot keys* but it would be nice if I could decrease the size of the menus.

    I have to use it later today and post some ideas... cause I always have ideas...

    OH! I like to load custom pallettes, but everytime I close the program I have to reload them, and I tried saving my layout, but when I load that layout, it just opens up the default pallete, and none of the other ones.. Any ideas?

    Question about wet paint.. for some odd reason when I use the wet brushes and make a long stroke it takes a huge amount of time to load.. Anythoughts? *Ill try and come up with a more indepth description of the situation*

    Layers menu: I like how in photoshop you can combine 2 layers, merge visible etc.. With Painter its very difficult.. you have to drop them to the canvas or cut and paste.. etc.. very agitating.. That would be a nice fix to have... *jsut thoughts*

    *thinks of more*

    Last edited by Deth Jester; July 31st, 2002 at 08:07 PM.
    -Deth Jester
    "Live each day like you will die tommorow, and dream like you will live forever..."
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    painter 7. i guess i hate change, but i have a system that works in painter6, and none of the features i used are present on seven. i HATE the watercolor tool, and HATE the necessity for layers. i like my digital paintings short and sweet, and it seems painter 7 takes all the short and sweet out of it...if i wanted to spend time rendering, i'd do it traditionally. the same could be said about photoshop 7. i think the brush engine sucks ass, did anyone else use spacing? im a grumpy old man, and i long for the good old days.

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    man...ya gotta learn the hotkeys. i'm liking P7 just fine. As a matter of fact...i never open up Pshop any more.

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    I have never used painter 7 but I get it in like 5 days. Does it have like layers like in photoshop and how is it as far as undos is it like unlimited?

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    its not about the hotkeys. its the discontinuation of certain features that sucks.

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    oh boy

    . change can be scary but can also take your work to new directions if you let it. There are alot of things about 6 I liked too, in fact I still use 6 sometimes, the old water color brush was cool and I miss it but if you spend some more time the new water color brush in 7 its amazing, it behaves so organicly, my advice is start off slow, I use the wet eraser brush, set it to default settings, chose colors very light colors cuz they will turn out darker on the canvas. start experimenting with the water menu under the brush options, the dry rate is the money bar , moving this back and forth will significantly cut down the amount of time it takes to make the calculation, move the pickup and evaporation bars aroud too. yes this version of painter is more complicated but its worth it. its like a musical instrument you have to tune first but once you figured it out its rock and roll time, once you master the difference, the painter 7 watercolor tool is like an electric gutiar, and it makes painter 6 water colors look more like a banjo. if your stuck on the old watercolor tool, experiment with the tinting tool in seven, create a seperate layer above the canvas> set it to gel or multiply> paint on that layer with the tinting tool and it behaves very similar to the .
    Coro I can tell by the way you jugle traditional media from ink to spraypaint to oils that you are a master of tools, treat the water color like a new tool instead of comparing it to the old one and Im sure you will be able to create some mind blowing stuff.

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    Like some one else stated I would like it if the layers behaved a bit more like the Photoshop layering system...complete with thumbnails.

    This is not so much a new painter version question but a painter question in general...I tend to find painting in Painter to be a bit more sloppy then photoshop...any suggestions on how to make things a bit more consciece when painting in painter7?

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    every time you open painter 7 open brush tracking under the prefrences, start drawing inside the box, this lets painter 7 get to know what kind of artist you are and how you make your strokes, I always open it up and draw something like an eyeball or a skull real fast and it tunes itself to the pressure I am custom to using with the wacom, I find painter to be infantly more sensative that photo-crop, I mean photoshop(just kidding, I love photoshop too, but I wont ever paint with it)

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    It's official... This forum is now complete!

    When I work digitally I work exclusively with Painter. I've owned versions; classic, 4,5,6, and now 7. All of the digital artwork on my webpage was done with either Painter 6 or 7. This is a great idea!

    I think it should also be encouraged, that if people want to share any of there tools, they should advertise it here. I'm always on the look out for whatever cool brushes people may make and put up on the web. When in doubt, you can count on at least me being interested. I've made my own brushes available on my website too.

    I guess few complaints about Painter 7 would be, as was previously mentioned, the lack of Painter 6's water color brushes. Particularly the broad water brush. I really liked making washes with that and have had a really hard time imitating it with other brushes.

    Also, I don't like how you can no longer merge layers that are set to different modes. You have to change them to the default in order to collapse them together. I work alot with shadow map layers and for the sake of simplicity, I'd like to be able to collapse my shadow-map greyscale layers together.

    anyway, again, Awesome idea, Android. I'll be sure to stop in often.

    Noel

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    Oh. A quick question; Where does one inquire about becoming a beta tester?

    Last edited by N D Hill; August 1st, 2002 at 12:51 AM.
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    I really think Painter could have a simpler interface. If they improve that aspect of the program more people will look forward to learning new versions.

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    Scripting feature

    I'm the kind that uses a lot of software and while i'm just learning my way in painting I'm in need of demos

    Imagine how this virtual school would look if the teachers could see the way I draw, and I could see a demo in exchange.
    I don't think it's much trouble to make something like collect for output in the script area to gather all the needed data for a script to work on other computers.
    Something to gather the images I use and everything in a folder and.. make it work there. You get the point.

    Oblio

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    My Painter thoughts

    I use Painter in conjunction with Photoshop, and let me tell you, if Painter had better editing tools, I would drop Photoshop just like THAT *snaps finger*

    The ONLY reason I use Photoshop is because it's easier and faster to perform editing.

    For example:

    1)doing things with layers is just much easier with PS. I can't even combine layers effectively in Painter.

    2)I can flip the ENTIRE image horizontally in PS with all the layers, which is VERY IMPORTANT to an artist when trying to spot proportion mistakes.

    3)Much more intuitive interface in PS. But, they kinda fucked it up with version 7. I hate version 7.

    You see, Photoshop can't touch Painter when it comes to painting, but it kicks Painter's ass when it comes to ease of use and editing power.

    I don't like having to use both 50/50 when I paint. It's a pain in the ass to work that way. So either Adobe or Procreate need to go out of their way to kick the other apps ass and TAKE OVER.

    Whichever app can combine the power and ease of use of both apps will knock the other one out of the ring.

    Last edited by Lunatique; August 1st, 2002 at 07:56 AM.
    http://www.ethereality.info - The art, music, photography, and writings of Robert Chang.
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    oh, el coro...sorry, the hotkey statement was directed to dethjuester.

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    vhy: painter's interface really seems to keep people off the prog.
    it's true that it doesn't feature some fancy makeup or anything that could provide an easier start for users.
    on the other hand, this interface is pure information and nothing else.
    so, if you managed to survive the first few days in painter you won't have any other interface again. (like me).
    i'm currently using painter 6 and find it very much better than any photoshop version i ever saw just for the sake of information being aligned in menus one after the other.
    you know what you want to change then you know where to change it. scroll to that submenu, change it and you're done. no less used slider is hidden in some extra menus that'd focus elements down to frequently used ones.

    although, painter and photoshop aren't really comparable. photoshpo is the all-around-solution for everything concerning graphic work, that also means editing and such.
    painter, on the other hand is a pure brush engine without anything else. like a high power v-16 engine that is mounted in a raw chassis without mercedes-benz like comfort.

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    the color adjustment tools in PS are stronger...if you need to do that kind of thing....seeing the adjust color changes inside a little window and not on the image is a pain....

    painters brushes are amazing...in comparison to PS.

    I long for the old watercolor tool in painter 7....the one from painter six. I will play with painter 7 some more in the near future...for now Im still enjoying six...

    the grids are great....

    net painter....anyone get this to work yet?

    the other PIA is that when i scale images that they do not change in size until after i hit the enter key. this has to be fixed....if i want to scale down part of an image then i want to see how big it is. simple as that.

    I use painter every day...its my drug of choice. Its the best painting program out there. period.

    j

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  19. #18
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    i actually prefer painters interface to that of photoshop. the color wheel is more intuitive due to my traditional training...the brushes are easy to create, size, use...

    plouffe...if you were painting everly day and actually made the attempt to use painter I think you would change your mind. I have painted in photoshop numerous times...each time wishing i was in painter. if you are trying to paint in photoshop then Id say you are trying to hammer nails with a wrench. You might as well use the right tool for the right job. tis just my opinion.


    photoshop as a painting program is clumsy...the brushes are too unbrushlike. the lack of both the texture and chalks as well as no awtercolor tool makes painter the superior painting program.

    photomanip in pshop vs painter is another story...but there is a reason its called PAINTer and photoshop is called PHOTOshop. simple as that.

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  20. #19
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    trust me plouffe...spend some more time with painter....

    I remember when i was only traditional in my medias and the digital stuff drove me crazy. It was not until i started using painter every day that it became intuitive....if you dont use it every day it will not be intuitive.

    it sounds to me like you are relying on what is familiar to you...instead of learning the program to its fullest.


    photoshop is easy for you and is fast for you because you have used it a LOT in comparison to painter...I could be wrong here..but that is what it sounds like to me.


    both programs are intuitive for me as i use them both every day. I simply speak from my own experiences with the programs.


    j

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    well..as i said...if you took the time to paint and learn the program you would find it much improved over your current program of choice for painting.

    actually..the layers are much improved in painter over the older versions.

    still...I do agree with your points you make.

    have fun

    j

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  22. #21
    fonzanoon Guest

    Talking

    Maybe I am just the easiest person in the world to please, but I love both programs. Both painter 6 and seven(although, before andrew mentiond the fix for those slow friggin watercolors, I wanted to kill someone every time I had to watch the paint dry), and both photoshop 6 and 7.
    Now granted I am not butter like the masters here but I happen to find my preference on a day to day basis. Some days I feel like a like a little sargeant brush and somedays I feel like some good ol' photoshop.
    It like a good burger from two killer beef shacks they both taste like meat...mmm good meat, so I am happy!

    also, on another note: I am sure that some of you have used discreets editing and paint packages. They have one feature that I would like to see appropriated into a new version of painter. There is a mixing pallet that behaves pigmentally. I love the idea of sloshing around my pallet while I work instead of sliding around that little dot. It would be great, you could mix down your colors(odor free!) hit the alt key to eyedrop the color and no worries about sliding out of your pre chosen range. Paraps they could allow the user to pick between the two blending methods(pigment and wavelength), or maybe even have both at the same time. That would be great for developing a shadow/light range and really pushing it.

    that it.
    enjoy the burgers!

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  23. #22
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    i like plenty of different kinds of art....not all of it is realistic ala bouguereau...or sargent.

    plouffe...i have yet to see an image from you that could not have been done in painter if you knew how to use the program fluently....what i am speaking of has nothing to do with style...absolutely nothing.

    i never said you couldnt paint....you have already told me in previous conversations that you do not paint enough. I simply said if you took the time to paint...and to use painter...that you would have a different feeling about it.

    nobody is critisizing your abilities...or your artistic preferences...i think you are reading into this in ways that are not intended.

    all i am saying is that painter is a far superior paint program on many levels. this is my opinion based on thousands of hours painting..nothing more.

    photoshop has better layering systems and has better color adjustment tools....and as a painting program it will limit your options and your range of marks. If you are happy working with limited tools then so be it.

    photoshop is a fantastic program...I think mullins proved that a million times over.

    Im not a fan of photoshops paintings because of the lack of natural and almost chaotic look to the marks that their tools make.

    I am however a huge fan of the matter painters and the other great imagery guys who use photoshop...just not a fan of the paintings from that program.

    I like paintings that have interesting marks...not an overly similar mark of the airbrush tool from photoshop.

    photoshops advantages (its ability to work with deep paint for example) make it an indespensible program...I love it too..its fun..it works...and its not as buggy as painter...what more can i say.

    I DO think that painter and deep paint should team up...at least a good importer should be written for them. I do my textures in painter and have to export them to photoshop..save the file..and open it in painter...tis a PIA.


    all in all i think each program has its advantages entirely...


    j

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  24. #23
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    ADREW THANK YOU!!!! OMG!!! You just made the watercolor brush for me.. I HATED THAT THING!! NOW ITS GORGEOUS!!!! Its like Light and Day! WOW!! *have to do some stuff and post it.. * LOVING IT!!!!

    Plouffe,

    Quick questions for you. You said that photoshop is the best tool for the job for you. What kind of business are you in? or do you do your artwork just for you? Cause I completely agree if you can get a painting done a lot faster with photoshop go for it.. But if you are learning and experimenting etc.. and do art for fun and yourself... Then Id say put the extra time in with painter..

    To be honest my program of choice is Illustrator! I come from a graphic design sort of background.. that is how I got into digital art... But I have been using photoshop since version 4.. I just got painter 7 about 2-3 months ago.. But I don't work in the industry and all my work is for me... My driving goal is that I like to learn.. and if I ever do get a job in it.. I want to be able to use every tool.. that is just how I am.. Also if you end up at a job and they only had painter for you to use.. you might be pulling your hair out...*doubtful situation*

    *somehow I feel like a car salesman..am I trying to sell painter?.. hehe* no but honestly it is a truly powerful program and worth learning to use for what it is designed for... so if you have free time to spare and feel like learning..advancing..etc.. give it a whirl..

    peace.

    -Deth Jester
    "Live each day like you will die tommorow, and dream like you will live forever..."
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  25. #24
    Slater Guest
    Plouffe.... Learning new software is like learning a new language. Its a pain in the ass to learn, but it can open doors for you later on.

    I'm a photoshop user myself but I just got painter 7 recently and I'm still stumbling around with the interface and tools. I really want to see if Painter has what it takes to paint better than PS 7.

    Does anyone know of any good tutorials for painter that might a help a guy out??

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  26. #25
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    I, too, am a photoshop painter, though not because its a better program for painting. I figure there's a pretty good chance that any company that I apply for a job at will have a copy of photoshop for me. I can't count on them having painter. I've worked in painter 6.03 and thought it was really cool, but, like my electronic illustration teacher said, pretty much anything you can do in painter, you can do in photoshop. It might be a little more difficult to do, or less user friendly, but it can be done. I figure its better to just get used to photoshop than to rely on painter, at least for now.

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    the interface could use some improvements, like let the menus go out of the main window and stuf..... yeaaa... and other stuff like that :o

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    yeah..

    like that [Ctrl]+H to hide the menus - how did they ever though of that? Can anyone do that with one hand?

    Oblio (is anyone in charge looking at this - I wonder)

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    If Painter had a directly additive brush like Photoshop, then I would be strongly tempted to go back to Painter.

    What do I mean by directly additive?

    When you draw a line with a brush, curve round and go over that line again in one stroke, Painter adds up all the colours.

    Photoshop, I presume, works on a "greater than or equal" method where, unless you press harder on the stylus, you WON'T overwrite the line you've allready done in one stroke.

    This is why I use photoshop on alot of Painter work... the functionality of the Photoshop brush is amazing for detailed work.

    intro

    Go on... be daring... call it the "Photoshop brush"... :p

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    difference

    can someone tell me what the difference between painter classic and painter 7 is?

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    quantas:

    1) Layers. Painter Classic doesn't have layers, or at least doesn't have layer handling in the way Painter 7 does.

    2) Perspective Grid. Useful for setting up composition for scenes.

    3) Impasto tools. Paint builds up, allowing for nifty effects with lighting etc.

    4) More tools and brushes.

    5) Watercolour and Liquid Ink brushes.

    Worth downloading the demo just to play around with it.

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