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  1. #1
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    New members trend

    This is not ment to be offensive to anyone in particular.

    Is anyone else starting to get tired of the sudden overflow of "newbs" that seems to be showing up lately? I could always handle the "excessive" praise of certain artists or pieces, everyone does it sometimes, heck I do it myself if I really like something...there's nothing wrong with that. But that's not what I'm talking about really; It just seems like there are a dozen or more posts a day now which seem to be totally devoid of any attention to the rules, involving lazily drawn pictures(not horrible in the sense of skill, but that the person spends about 5 minutes on it), "show and tell" pictures from months or even years past as I've seen some referred to, and some posts that don't even have pictures, just someone asking "how do I post this?" in the first forum they can find without even looking at the FAQ at the top of the page.

    My 11-year old sister knows well enough to check out the FAQ on Neopets...

    I'm even seeing people shoot down other peoples' critiques because they thought it was too mean or harsh, despite the fact that it was-at least for the most part-valid. It's annoying enough when an artist can't take a crit, but when someone can't tolerate the tone of a crit directed towards someone else, that just seems antagonistic. Let the artist himself handle it, he/she may actually be more interested in the actual substance of the message.

    Before posting:

    -Check out the FAQ, it stands for "Frequently Asked Questions," which may very well include the one you're thinking about posting in the middle of the finally finished section, and usually hangs out at the top of every single page on the forum. And if it's not there, try the search function, chilling next door, and if you still can't find it, have the courtesy to post in the lounge; People there will most likely be a lot more willing to answer "not so frequently asked questions" than things which already have the answers posted in a dozen different spots.

    -Read the descriptions for each forum section. And this means read all of them, if you have a question about painter, you may not even know there's a forum deticated to it just a few inches down. And don't post your sketches in the finally finished section just because it was the first one on the list and you think you're going to get more views/posts/whatever, post sketches in the sketches section.

    -This is not DeviantArt, the place where you're guaranteed smilies galor when you draw a doodle of your fairy character, this is a place for learning and improving, so that you can deserve all those smilies. This means you should not be offended at critiques-aka someone pointing out problems with your work that you should fix to make it better. People usually don't take the time and effort to point out individual things you could fix, why they should be fixed, and how, just to prove, "you suck," otherwise they would probably just say...."you suck", though you very well might, and coming here is a step in the right direction.

    Maybe there should be a quiz for new members. That way they would be forced to read and summarize at least the most basic rules.

    /end outofcharacter rant
    Last edited by Cyrus; July 20th, 2005 at 12:06 AM.
    "The proper rewards are not simply tacked on to the activity for which they are given, but are the activity itself in consummation." -C.S. Lewis
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  3. #2
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    Everyone has to start somewhere and everyone will make mistakes at some times, maybe some more than others. From what I've seen, the moderators do there job well and if they see a problem, it's moved (sometimes, I don't understand why), or I'm sure they at least will let the "offender" know. Sometimes, guys like me make mistakes because we are not as tech as the next guy, but you have to jump in and make your mistakes; that's how one learns.

    As far as the crits, the ones that are overly aggressive and antagonistic, in my view are not being proffessional (even if they are), but are showing immaturity. Being mean isn't the same as being proffessional. Take a look at the pros around here when they give a citique; they give constructive criticism and get to the point without being hostile. That's teaching.

    I agree with the FAQ. They are helpful and should be looked at, but I don't really think that anybody here has really made that annoying of a mistake. I could be wrong.

  4. #3
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    I cannot agree more. Seriously, take some time to gauge the community a bit before jumping in thinking "Ooh! Another forum where I can post my 5'th period geometry doodles!" If you actually spend about five minutes looking at the finally finished section, you may begin to notice a standard just by looking at the work displayed there and the vast majority of the work that's filtered out. Ask yourself "can I do better?" before calling it finished and displaying it as such. Posting in the helpful critiques section is nothing to be embarrassed about. I do it and I know that many other hard working aspiring concept artists and illustrators do so of their on will. If you give it a chance, you'll realize that conceptart.org is definitely not a bad place to be a student. Hell, we all are. If you're not hear to learn and just want to slap your shit up everywhere you can just for the hell of it, you'll find elfwood and deviant art much more suited to your needs. Hell, they even host your images too!

    The same goes for how you reply to artwork and your general posting quality as well. I personally HATE it when people type as if all the vowels on their keyboard have been pried off with a screw driver. Or when you post like this, "omg! im nu here! u guys kick teh arse wiht ur artz." Shit like that drags this whole forum down to the same level majority of the mindless and incoherent internet.

    Just remember when it comes to posting art and comments here, quality is what draws people here and is probably what drew you here. It's also what keeps people here. Don't fuck it up.

  5. #4
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    Agreed. I've seen a disturbing increase in the number of posts saying something to the effect of "Ignore that last poster who gave you harsh crits THAT YOU NEEDED TO HEAR... he's angry." A little message to those discounting REAL crits... They may be harsh, but they are right, and they are there to get the artists working harder. Just like Cyrus said, let the artist deal with the crits, don't tell them not to listen because you think they are being too hard on them. Harsh Crits are why I joined... and anyone who didn't join for a similar reason needs to, just like Exo said, go to Devart or Elfwood, they're more accommodating. Oi... enough outa me, I'm just repeating what's already been said.

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    I'd say we should have just a few trusted folks to survey the area and probably post notices to people who make these retarded posts and threads. Just have the power to show people what thread they were crapheads on and give them a point. Let's say 10 points and one of these trusted folks will send a name to a moderator where the moderator can evaluate the person's posts and see if a little temporary banning for punishment should be instituted. And if it continues we bomb their houses.

    Just kidding, some folks are annoying though.
    "Do the best that you wanna do." -My personal quote.

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35829

    Sketchbook Thread. Look at it, rate it, post and crit on it.

  7. #6
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    too right. theres certainly been a large influx of noobs, and whilst its great that theyre taking the initiative to create an account here at a opposed to being an annonymous guest (one of about 29847298 that can be viewing a thread at a time..), there is something about this new generation that gets me. youve hit the nail on the head, to coin an perfectly cliched saying.

    oh, and i agree, a constructive criticism is supposed to be taken as such, and i on many occassions have been attacked (publicly and privately) in regards to some of my critiques, simply because they didnt like the nature in which they were supplied. a crit is a suggestion, and should always be regarded as a relevant point of view. it is not someone else's right or position to decide otherwise.

  8. #7
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    Daunting: Pfft... I like it, but it's too lax...
    How about anyone can send a name, along with a link to the post in question, to a Mod. The Mod looks over the post, gives them a warning if it's their first offence. Then if their name comes up again for a different post, they get themselves a temp ban. Or maaaaaybe you could give them a second warning... maybe.
    I like the bombing though.

  9. #8
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    perhaps a mandatory initiation process is in order? hmm..

  10. #9
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    I'm voting in favor of the bombing...

    I really don't care why. I just like 'splosions...

    I would think the problem would be self-correcting. The membership here doesn't seem to be a bunch of flamers, so crits are usually pretty near the mark...or at least in the same direction as the art is...and I would assume anybody who crits the crits as a practice would pretty quickly lose his reason for posting since nobody would pay attention to him/her. Any noob posting crap and reacting badly to a helpful crit would not come back, so that would clean the gene pool rather quickly, too...
    Last edited by Ilaekae; July 20th, 2005 at 12:48 AM. Reason: Additional thought...

  11. #10
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    Okay, sorry guys! I fess up, Im to blame for all these new people that are coming to these forums and ruining your site. Infact they are all me under a diffrent name, posting random stuff just to piss you guys off.

    This will continue until all of you leave, and leave me to rule this site

    FOREVER!
    "As you may have noticed, Im not all here my self..."

    Give me some love! JARheads SKETCHBOOK of DOOM!

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    Yo Jar! I don't suppose I could get the Lat/long coordinates of your house... What? It's not for any specific reason... I just... you know... want to send you flowers by airmail! Yeah... flowers... airmail... indeed

  13. #12
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    It happens every year about this time.
    School lets out, and for a month or so everybody's having a good time just goofing off, and then boredom starts to set in. People surf the net and find the art forums, and it's like, "OMG, someplace to show my drawings!!!!"

    Next thing you know, every damn fugly piece of DoodleArt they've made over the last 3 years is uploaded and posted with a "c&c welcome" tagged on the end...

    The worst of the bunch thankfully have such thin skins that they usually drift away once their 1337 skilz aren't fully appreciated. 'Stoph, you've once again put your foot in your mouth by saying it's great that they create an account...I'd much rather they stay anonymous, unseen and unposting if Old, Bad, DoodleArt warriors with swords or short-legged assassins with poorly drawn hand guns are all they can post...

    The more dedicated of the bunch usually lurk long enough to have half an idea of what they are getting into. They don't make excuses for their mistakes, they don't cry in the corner when they're told their 3 minute sketch looks like shit, and they actually make an effort to post an update or two of their submission once folks have made suggestions.

    You can't polish a turd, and a lot of turds have been getting uploaded lately with a request for "extra shine..." The only comfort is that at the very least, it'll die down some once school starts in the Fall...

    ~M
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    I am The Choosen One!
    Jason sez: Draw more from Life!


  14. #13
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    I kind of agree with madster. I always assumed the chaff weeded itself out around here, as I don't see too many of the thin-skinned type stay around very long. They seem to just get flummoxed by our failure to recognize their brilliance and go find another place to frolic.

    The other type of person Madster referenced, the quickie doodle artist guy (or gal!!) who can at least take the heat, I don't mind. They either get the picture real quick and strive to improve and accept crits, post in the right section, etc - or they just disappear. I haven't noticed the issue to be TOO rampant, but I guess those who've been around longer than I have feel a little proprietary about CA and its quality - which is totally understandable.

  15. #14
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    Everyone go right now and give 5 good crits! Go! Now! Drown the newbies out with quality posts!

    Stop reading and do it!



    0kelvin
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    Funny most of the people complaining about the newbs are newbs themselves all of you 2005ers including myself...quit taking yourself so seriously....the bad always comes with the good....David Finch has started posting on this site...i'll take 100 newbies for the chance to see just 1 of his sketches.
    -Call me Semaj for short.

  17. #16
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    Semaj... err... well you have a point, but in my own defence I lurked around long enough to get an idea of how things are, and should be. And it's also not that difficult to pick out a piss-poor newb from the crowd, 'specially on the point of discreditting people's critiques.
    On a different note... I haven't had a chance to see Finch's work... good thing he's posting here now then. *makes with the five good crits as kelvin suggested*

    Edit: see reason for editting.
    Last edited by Groove Zombie; July 20th, 2005 at 02:41 AM. Reason: I'm a nub

  18. #17
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    Ill admit to it, Im a nub. Who eles will?
    "As you may have noticed, Im not all here my self..."

    Give me some love! JARheads SKETCHBOOK of DOOM!

  19. #18
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    yeah, shut up you noobs. i am thinking of making a fat faq type thing that you can point noobs to, so you dont have to type the same advice out over and over again. i'll get some irc folks or whatever to help me. watch out for a draft in a bit i guess.

  20. #19
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    Its a well trained squad of assholes sent out to annoy people, theyre everywhere forums, traffic, schools, business, politics.

  21. #20
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    It makes me cringe to think that I myself have fallen to making such mistakes. I guess its one thing to say 'learn by making your own mistakes', but it would be much easier to 'learn from other peoples mistakes' by reading through the seemingly thousands of posts, all of which show the same problems with drawing and ways to go about improving.
    We'll ride the spiral to the end, we may just go where no one's been

  22. #21
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    Hmm, I wasn't really paying attention to this, but I did notice the ones that say things like: "don't pay attention to that critique, I think this is good." That annoys me too. Everyone has their taste, it's okay to say that you think it's good, but not right to bring down others critiques. =/

    And then there's also newb critiques like "study anatomy", "your color sucks", "practice more". As if those would really help.

    kevin's right, we should flush down the newbs with our c&c. I should stop bitching now.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by madster
    'Stoph, you've once again put your foot in your mouth by saying it's great that they create an account...I'd much rather they stay anonymous, unseen and unposting if Old, Bad, DoodleArt warriors with swords or short-legged assassins with poorly drawn hand guns are all they can post...
    thankyou (once again), for pointing out my consistantly errant conduct and incredulous incompetence. i mean, without you keeping me in check, marking my every 't' and dotting my every 'i', i dont know how i would get on in this world, let alone be my own person... /sarcasm

    i dont want to have to endlessly justify myself in what i say to anyone, but apparently you deem it necessary to hinder my every move and correct me when evidently nobody else finds fault in what i say. right now youre guilty of precisely what this thread complains! sure, have a say, its what youre entitled to after all, but please, not at my expense over and over again. yes, im feeling a little annoyed now.

    can we please get past this childish behaviour?

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0kelvin
    Everyone go right now and give 5 good crits! Go! Now! Drown the newbies out with quality posts!

    Stop reading and do it!



    0kelvin

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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by madster
    'Stoph, you've once again put your foot in your mouth by saying it's great that they create an account...I'd much rather they stay anonymous, unseen and unposting if Old, Bad, DoodleArt warriors with swords or short-legged assassins with poorly drawn hand guns are all they can post...

    ~M
    Gonna have to agree with Stoph on this one (Wow feels weird to say that) and disagree with you Madster. I believe you are the one putting your foot in your mouth by showing your incredible insenstitivity and inability to show patience, but I still love you. I know alot of people would love to make this site an elitist forum where only professionals and those on the road to becoming professionals post. But I beleieve the founders of conceptart.org created it as a learning place where all can come and learn and perhaps maybe grow (crazy as that sounds) if they weren't constantly put down by those who they admire for simply being green. Newbies are just what comes with the territory give em a chance they just need guidance and if you don't want to give them that guidance than here is a crazy idea.....ignore them....you do know you don't have to post....it is completely voluntary.


    Quote Originally Posted by okelvin
    Everyone go right now and give 5 good crits! Go! Now! Drown the newbies out with quality posts!

    Stop reading and do it!



    0kelvin
    Already done before you posted that and i crtiqued 5 more after i read this for good measure...great idea.
    -Call me Semaj for short.

  26. #25
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    Although I'm technically new to ConceptArt, I've been on forums in general since 2000, and been interested in art since before I could talk. I understand why everyone is against noobs. On my home board, I hate them and I'm quite likely to bite their heads off at first chance. (So much so, the admins told me that I had to not go into the welcome threads for them...ruin all the fun.) Noobs are noobs, and some of them never change. But every now and then, you're going to come across a noob who isn't a noob, but is just new. (I hope that made sense) Yes, there are a crapload of noobs out there who think that their 5th period geometery doodles are masterpeices and can't take a serious critque for life. The way I look at it, if they can't take a serious crit on a doodle, then they probably can't take a serious crit for anything else, and thus will end up saying "Do you want fries with that?" for the rest of their lives. So, I say that you veterans keep making serious crits. It'll ferret out the noobs real fast, and let those people who want and need serious crits be able to get them!

    All in all, I've learned the hard way that just because they are new, they are not a noob. (Yes, most of the time they are) So give them a chance. Give them a serious crit that any member deserves, because even if their work is crap, it may be the best they can do and want to improve. If it isn't, drop a bomb on their bloody heads.

    -Wolfykins

    PS - Don't kill me. o_O
    "Life isn't how many breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

  27. #26
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    It happens every year about this time.
    School lets out, and for a month or so everybody's having a good time just goofing off, and then boredom starts to set in. People surf the net and find the art forums, and it's like, "OMG, someplace to show my drawings!!!!"
    Everyone go right now and give 5 good crits! Go! Now! Drown the newbies out with quality posts!
    Funny most of the people complaining about the newbs are newbs themselves all of you 2005ers including myself...quit taking yourself so seriously....the bad always comes with the good....David Finch has started posting on this site...i'll take 100 newbies for the chance to see just 1 of his sketches.
    I have nothing more to add. Neither do any of you. Go draw.

    Tristan Elwell
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    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron

  28. #27
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    Just to expound on what I said before:

    -By "newbs" I only ment those who acted rashly, or in an " extreamely newbish" way, not people who have registered in the last month or so.

    -New members are not a bad thing, and many(probably most)know how to post well enough. I can relate to those who honestly just don't know what to do, and I don't think we should punish/ban anyone at all just for being ignorant. I would just think that it would help a lot to cut down on the extra effort taken to correct these mistakes if those who registered were required to do something a little more than read the rules of the forum, which they could-and often do apparently-just scroll past. Just make them summarize at least the important notess in one sentence, answer a quick poll, or just something which actually gets their attention. It's nothing that anyone would mind doing I'm sure with a one time registration, but I think it would help a lot towards keeping the quality higher of this site.

    Just some thoughts. Now as Elwell suggested, I'm going to go draw.
    "The proper rewards are not simply tacked on to the activity for which they are given, but are the activity itself in consummation." -C.S. Lewis
    "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid." -Proverbs 12:1


    Help a CA artist! Visit the Constructive Critique section!
    -Cyrus' Sketchbook-

  29. #28
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    The poll sounds like a good idea, but you also have to think...would it scare more members away? That could be pretty itimidating if you want to join and all of the sudden, you're being quizzed.

    I'd take Elwell's advice and go draw, except that I can't draw to save my life, lmao. And I have no film for the camera. Woe is me.
    "Life isn't how many breaths you take, it's the moments that take your breath away."

  30. #29
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    Semaj, you're great, and I love you too!
    I want Patience, and I want it RIGHT NOW!
    I agree with you, in that we DON'T want CA to become an elitist group of only professionals, semi-professionals and wanna-be professionals. BUT, at the same time, I feel that I am not alone in feeling that CA shouldn't become the "local playground" for every bored teen who thinks they can draw, and that THIS is the place to post scribbles that I wouldn't line the bottom of my dustbin with. They are MORE than welcome to take that CRAP over to DA, or Epilogue, or Elfwood, where every artistic mark, no matter HOW bad, is considered "OMFG awesome!!!"
    Those are the people who SHOULD remain lurkers. It doesn't do one thing to help them draw better by posting year old crappy drawings that display absolutely NO composition, or technical expertise. And I'm not talking fancy, I mean not even able to connect two lines, and legs that just stop in the middle of the page, but the crooked AK47 is detailed with 5 shades of color...Nope. Don't want 'em here, don't need 'em here, they don't need to be here. Many of those types of members have no interest in studying art, and taking more than 3-5 minutes to crank out their latest "scribble to share" is considered to be a "long" time.

    "...come and learn, and perhaps maybe grow..." Hell yes! Hang out, post crap that you scrawled with no attention to detail whatsoever, and no thought before you started as to what the heck you're doodling? Hell NO!

    I don't think it is expecting too much of anyone who posts art here to require SOME minimum standard of "acceptable" effort. Notice I don't say "RESULTS," because as students, of course, we make mistakes, and of course, there will be room for improvement. But only those pieces that are posted in the interests of learning. There is way too much "dumping" going on of stuff that isn't worth the free bandwidth to look at it. And it's mostly from new members, who seem to only be interested in "showing off." I DON'T think CA was intended to be a giant Internet refrigerator for every single doodle someone's ever done, which gets uploaded simply to say "LOOKEE! I drew this! Isn't my ninja elf with the big gun the bestest???" That's why this forum has areas for tutorials, and Life Drawing, and WIPs and Finished (PRESENTATION QUALITY) works. Maybe CA should make a new section called "Noob Purgatory" for the worst of the worst that gets stuck up around here. If you post a piece of crap, it gets moved to Purgatory, just like completed works that are NOT Presentation Quality get moved over to Sketches and WIPs. That way, the greenies (who are not necessarily Noobs) will either improve, or have their stuff taken off the general fridge...

    As for voluntary posting, I'm quite comfortable with the concept. That I choose to call bad art when I see it (BUT, take pains to specify what artistic elements and principles of Composition and Design are flawed), is totally of my own choosing. Just as those "brave" enough to upload something showing no expenditure of time or effort always have the voluntary choice of not forcing their doodles on anyone by hitting that "Submit post" button...There are enough members around here who know that I'm cruel, but try to be fair. Everyone also has the same option to ignore me, and a few do. Voluntary goes across the boards, not just in replying...

    ~M
    Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional
    I am The Choosen One!
    Jason sez: Draw more from Life!


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    By .cfb in forum Art Critique Center
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: May 2nd, 2003, 02:25 PM

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