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Thread: Sketchbook of NoŽ
November 19th, 2007 #601Justin Hrala
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nice figure studies you've got going on. i'm going to tell you the same thing someone once told me (and at times i still don't listen), and that is to watch your line weight, right now it is making your figures feel a bit flattened out. don't be afraid to go bold, but only when necessary, and keep a light touch.
Hide this ad by registering as a memberNovember 22nd, 2007 #602
hey noe, whatsup!
i see your lifedrawings, they look good! i just want to give you some tips, things my teacher tells me. maybe you can benefit from them.
he says: "first, you have to understand that a drawing/painting always consists of several fases. the first fase is the foundation drawing. its all about blocking forms into space (form/direction/proportion) (its all about light lines!!)
second, you get into secundary shapes, breaking up the light lines. getting those bulks on outlines. getting this right will aquire anatomical knowledge.
3 rendering details all that.... (we havent done that in class so i dont know what fases will be more. he says 'its not important for now')
the foundation drawing is the most difficult and important. he says 'simplicity is the most difficult thing to achieve'. 'three things to achieve in a foundation drawing: proportion, direction and form'. he actually recommend to get rid off 'deversions' like the breasts in this stage. the foundation fase is about breaking complex stuff down to simple stuff, in other words abstraction. another interesting frase he said: "the approach of realistic art is the same as abstract art. the only difference in realism is that you can still recognize what it is."
another thing fital to understand when drawing a standing figure is how balance work. it makes your life alot easier.
a little trick on getting proportions right: looking at big triangles in the body. if you know 2 points of the triangle, you can estimate the 3th point by getting the proportion of your imaginary triangle right and you know where your 3th point is. this sounds a bit abstract and confusing i think.. so pm me if you dont understand.
so i hope you can get something out of this... it works for me. i feel im getting better at lifedrawing. good luck to you girl
November 23rd, 2007 #603
sorry, no time to reply will do that later..
little shitty study update. Really boring actually Just posting to fill up the otherwise big gap in this sketchbook.. Forgot to bring the drawing colour pencil sketches with me to scan, so I might scan then nťxt weekLove
should've spent more time on this
and on this
November 23rd, 2007 #604
Well, despite the fact that this update is a little bit boring, I learned something about how a horse is put together so it's all good! Great job with the lifedrawings (couple of updates ago), I really think that they are doing you good.
In this latest update, the girl with her head tilted back, watch her neck, it looks a little odd, and the foreshortening on the face jsut doesn't seem right. if I was pro I'd tell you why, but my amateur eye can only convey so much.
Keep it up and I hope to see some of this stuff that you keep not being able to post for various reasons.
November 23rd, 2007 #605
November 26th, 2007 #606
Okay, here are my replies, and one little picture :
first of all; I'm really sorry, I should reply in all of your sketchbooks soon!! You know what: I'll take one hour tomorrow and one hour the day after tomorrow to give crits & comments, and hope that balances out all the awesome comments and crits I received in this sketchbook!
@ PaperX; thanks! Yes, gotta watch proportions more. I try though, but it is a lot harder on big paper thanks! And there's no reason to shut up giving crits ^^
@ esraa; Well thanks.. I hope I don't live the same sort of life as van Gogh tho..
@ Jushra; thanks! Yes I do need to start with the light lines, I often go bold too soon.. Will watch this!
@ Teh Gosu; thanks heaps! I'll watch to make the lines lighter, and watch proportions above all.. I'm often forgetting this indeed. Wouldn't like to get rid of all the breast in my drawings though.. Breasts are pretty on most women ^^ Thanks a lot! I'll try the triangle thing and pm you if I don't understand it.
@ Chris; thanks man! Gotta reply in your sb soon.. I feel like a bad SSG member.. Thanks for the critties. I definitely agree with you on that face.. Gotta watch proportions way more. Getting things right before rendering. Currently I'm staying way too true to my last name (Marleen Renders)
@ amer; Well, thanks! the pose was really beautiful
one image updateLove
Still studying for school exams.. But I took approximately two hours today to paint this in my moleskine. I think I'm gonna start using it for acrylic paint only! It's such a great surface to paint on with acrylics
P.S. Gonna work on my last man standing entry from now on.. If you'd like to help me with it, please PM me, and I'll PM you the WIP back.. I would love having some good crits on it! (though I didn't start yet.. Still thinking over ideas)
November 27th, 2007 #607
I'd love to help you with your LMS entry. I didn't have the cajones to enter this year but I'm sure I will next year. Anyhoo, I like your painting, and this is very off topic but I'm getting myself a Moleskine sb for christmas.... December 25th won't come soon enough!
November 27th, 2007 #608
November 27th, 2007 #609
hey sorry its been so long, just got a new job and the home computer is down until friday night. Your lifestudies are looking amazing! and the acrylic looks awesome as well. Love the bones
Unleash your imagination
November 28th, 2007 #610
Hi Marleen, that last piece is very nice, it may be hard to paint with oils in that surface, but I like how it turned out, nice texture. My crit there would be how the folliage around her head, follow the shape of her head, breaking the pattern of the folliage in other places (I guess it would be hard to keep it without painting over her head...).
I also like your fish studies a lot they seem really fluid.
Also i see you are studying horse anatomy, so when will we start to see the whole horse?
About the anatomy studies, I would also like to see some more longer studies, with more details and shadows, but the fast ones are looking good, some nice lines.
keep it up.
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December 1st, 2007 #611
I read Teh Gosus advise on life drawing and thought I share a nother side of the subject even dough I agree with him mostly.
Its typical art teatcher to do this blocking the figure out but it kinda blends trough in your finished work if you do. Marko Djurdjevic gives some good advise about how to do life drawings different. instead of quoting him I post a link.
December 1st, 2007 #612Registered User
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Like the one you did on the computer
December 3rd, 2007 #613
Pretty neat stuff. For a numerous time I must say that I' envious that people take life drawing classes, because I don't! Hard to find any in my city, if possible at all. Should just get naked in front of a mirror, but I'm sure my parents wouldn't understand that.
I assume those animal anatomy studies are from some book, no? If so, what kind of book is that?
December 4th, 2007 #614
B-Man: I had a look at the video, and I have to say that it seems like someone could really take away the wrong message from it. It seems like pretty good advice if you're already Marko Djurdjevic, but for the rest of us who aren't Marko Djurdjevic, plotting the figures beforehand is necessary to getting it right. If the volume, angles and proportions are all wrong, pretty squiggly lines aren't going to save it.
December 5th, 2007 #615
NoŽ sorry for starting this discussion in your SB.
gtgauvin - I agree in what your saying! You are right and Its not to talk down on blocking figures, i just find Markos way a fun exercise to alow your self to really look and take your time. I dont sugest it as a way of learning proportions without the blocking and other shape styled learning.
Just try different exercises and go with what works best for you. Right? Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.
CHeers NoŽ, youre doing great!
December 5th, 2007 #616
EDIT: and here are the replies (edited in the post later)
@ Dose; Heya! ^^ I'll PM you the sketch for the LMS as soon as it is a little more progressed than it is now (just a bunch of doodles). And nice@the moleskine.. I usually don't do clichťs, but they're really as good as people say
@ Ethan; thanks man but don't feel sorry for not replying for a few updates! I mean, you don't have any obligation towards me, it's only nice when you stop by ^^
@ Voraz; thanks! totally agree with the crit on the painting (which was actually acrylics on paper, which works pretty nice!), about the studies: well the first one (I think?) was a pretty long study I think (well, medium then, not very long), 1 hour for the dog skeleton I think? I'll get some stuff really rendered though when I continue the skeletons, but I'm wondering where to put my priority: learning the shapes and proportions of the skeleton, or getting it on paper correctly looking at the reference. I'm not sure, because with every skeleton I make I'll usually look up the reference and it's kind of almost impossible (but not undoable look at mentler ) to learn every bump of the skeleton so I'll probably use reference always with skeletons.. Well.. Anyways.. Yeah..
@ B-Man; no problems at all for bringin up that discussion in my sketchbook! I think Marko has a point in that video, but for me it is also very important to first get basic proportions right before spending more time on my lines.. So I guess a little of both. Something I definitely learned from that vid is to really take the time for my lines.
@ catti; ehm LOL which one? I mean, I have ehh.. lots of stuff I did on the computer.. But thanks anyways ^^
@ razz; Hey thanks yes you have reason to be envious about the lifedrawing, but you can also ask friends to model for you, draw from mirror, or photographs for compensation about the anatomy book: It's called "drawing classes in anatomy" from a bunch of people with very unpronouncable names (for me) which I don't remember so quickly.. EDIT: I looked it up: link. The illustrators name is Andras Szunyoghy. I have this book in Dutch though. For animal anatomy book recommendations be sure to check out this post, and euhm, the entire thread that goes with it.. Simply invaluable information there!!
@ gtgauvin; see the reply to B-man above: I agree with you, but there is a nice lesson in this vid for taking the time for your lines.
meh updatesie with school thingsWell, that was the update then.. Lots of text..
Here are some sketches for my process for the school assignment, in this process I need to have sketches to show that I thought about all sorts of variations for the final work. I'll try not to forget the digital camera tomorrow and take a WIP picture of the final work (colour pencil: 40x50 cm!)
variations for the tree, trying to get a 'dream image' on the top of the drawing, and a more 'from this earth' image on the lower part of the drawing.
left: experimenting with some ecoline and aquarel pencil where I drew over with colourpencils.. The teacher likes to see stuff like this in the process ^^ And it was fun to do.
right: this was done for the start of a step by step for m.engendahl who I'm mentoring a little (I sometimes forget to keep him updated with assignments but I'm trying ^^).
Here is the step by step: I'm just posting it here so you can correct me on anything I'm saying in it because I'm by no means an expert on this! Also you may point out all mistakes in my drawing ofcourse! ^^ But you may do that with everything I post here .. Rrrrip it apart!
<-begin step by step->
I decided to do a drawing of a male face, from this picture.
In the image above you see in which order I drew the lines.
- I start with looking for repeating proportions such as "length of hairline to eyebrows equals length of eyebrows to tip of the nose equals length of tip of the nose to chin". Don't just do this, measure on your photo first and decide whether these things are correct, or if you have to alter those 'rules'. Just measure and measure (first with eyes, and later check with fingers of pencil!), until you found the top of the head, the hairline, the eyebrows, the tip of the nose, and the chin. Then you can measure how wide the head will be, I usually look at how wide the head is in the image, and then see how far that is up from the chin to above (usually width of the head equals chin to somewhere around the eyebrows, but it can vary quite a lot).
- Then I focus on angles (while keeping measuring). What I usually do with photos is drawing lightly over a rather straight line in the face, and try to duplicate that angle on my sketch, measuring every now and then if I'm not completely off. When you practice this more and more you'll notice you're getting better with this and that you start "feeling" the proportions, knowing when to stop a line and start a new angle.
Try not to go to straight in your lines, when you see a curve you can estimate how it'll go, just draw the straight line very lightly so you know the angle, and then draw the curve you know is there.
In this stage I usually try to get the outline of the face right, and the angle of the nose. Also I measured a few more points here, like how wide the eyes will be and where the line between the lips is.
- Keeping the angles and measured points in mind I start to draw the more "detailed" areas, I define the nose a little and the mouth and beard. I think I forgot the eyes here, usually I draw the line of the upper eyelid and the lower eyelid as well. It is hard to not go into detail already in this fase, but just keep in mind that you need this stage to check for mistakes (looking at the drawing in the mirror helps finding mistakes easier, and also it can be good to take a break from it and view it with fresh eyes, and to take a step back. After taking a little break from this image I now see that the right (our left) cheak puffs out a bit too much, that the mouth should be a little extended on the right (our left ) and many other little angle mistakes. I can fix these now, take another look and move on to the detailing and rendering.
So, I hope this helps you with setting up the proportions for a portrait from photo.
I'd like to note that I usually only do this when I intend to spend at least one hour on a portrait, because when I do quick 10 minute portraits I simply don't have time to measure this much, then I only do the first two steps, and make some quick angles before I make the lines more curvy and natural.
This took me 30 minutes so far, and it still has many flaws. Try not to hurry stuff like this on a sketch you intend to work longer on. Also: if you didn't check it yet: Andrew Loomis's book on figure drawing has a really nice overview of the standard proportions to give you an idea what proportions to look for in portraits.
<-end step by step->
Couldn't go to lifedrawing last saturday morning because I went to a Machine Head concert the friday beforehands ^^ couln't get myself to get up at 6 o'clock to catch my train back to Eindhoven the next morning ghehe ^^
Last edited by NoŽ; December 11th, 2007 at 01:48 PM.
December 11th, 2007 #617
It's good you'r practising proportions of the face. About measuring, it's a good method you'r using for learning. But I think your ultimate goal is to get a face right without any guidelines and measuring with pencil or fingers.
Try some quick sketches and some very precise portraits, and only rely on your eyes when measuring. This way you will train your eyes and after a wile you'll be able to see the proportions of a face very quickly.
That's the way I always do it. But you should just do what works best for you
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December 11th, 2007 #618
@ Merlin: Thanks for the feedback! That is indeed how I usually approach the quicker face drawings, but this step by step was created for a person who is having trouble setting up the basic features of the face and I think that when starting out doing portraits it gives much confidence to know you measured proportions right. Usually when doing this I try stuff on the eye first and then measure to practice the eye as well.
But thanks for the input anyways! Gotta rely on my eye and memory eventually.
The school project I've been working on at least fourty minutes a (school)day for last week and this week (and some school hours (50 minutes minus 10 for getting stuff and putting stuff away at the beginning and end of the lesson) before that).. So this is it, almost finished, or has to be because next friday I have to hand it in..
I have some other sketches for this project that I'll try to scan this evening.
Furthermore I'm working on my LMS thing, but I've only been able to put in 2 hours because of the incredible amount of homework I have, and because I'm in school until 17.00 every day getting my school drawing finished in time
Well, that's plenty of blablabla again.. Here's it so far.. Colour pencils on 40 cm x 50 cm (pretty big for colour pencil drawing!).
EDIT: here are the other two images.. For my process
Last edited by NoŽ; December 11th, 2007 at 02:24 PM.
December 11th, 2007 #619
Oh I really enjoy the colors of your most recent one, but I feel as if there should be more of a visible sepration between background and ofreground, but I guess that will come with the missing part right now, very enjoyable sketchbook.
December 11th, 2007 #620
I've lost this thread for a while, and when I come back to visit I see allots of improvement.
I like you're animal studies.
Ps:do you now the name of the kind of paper you use in the last drawings the brown stuff. (Dutch name also, I can't find the paper here or don't know the name)
Keep the good work up greets,Tom
December 15th, 2007 #621
@ Uril; Thanks Well the drawing is finished now and there is indeed a better separation between foreground and background, had to rush the background part though, so that is a bit meh Ah well. Thanks for stopping by!
@ Flutic; Thanks I just asked for a toned paper sketchpad, aka "grijs of gekleurd papier". I scanned in the front of my sketchpad to show you which brand I use, maybe you can recognise in the art supply store? But there are other brands that sell this paper too ofcourse. CLICK. Hope that helps ^^
I'd like to announce that I'm one of Moai's mentees, learning Animal Anatomy and Creature Design I'm really happy to be one of his mentees. I'll be spending my drawing time mostly on my assignments from now on, so there'll be less posting in this sketchbook I think.Hope you enjoyed Gotta get some work done on that LMS piece now! ^^
I'd like to know from you whether I should post my assignment stuff in this sketchbook as well? Right now they're going to be mostly skeletons from quadruped animals. Ah well. I'll see..
Also I'm working hard on my LMS entry (well, not just yet, but I will be!).. So I won't be posting too much in this sketchbook I think..
This took 3 hours: skeleton of a goat, on A3 paper.
Continuing with this morning's lifedrawing: I'm pretty ashamed of most of the charcoal stuff, but I'm posting them anyway I couldn't scan three of my charcoal ones because they were too big for the scanner. Photos will come after the weekend.
The above four drawings were done from one 30-min pose.
20-min, and the last pose.
December 15th, 2007 #622Registered User
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Hay, I just been very busy lately since I had finals last week.
I glad see some more improvement in your art work. See that you have made significant improvement in your ability to draw. In the drawing with the girl coming out the tree and man sitting under it, I think the girl is larger than the man in proportion. If the girl was sitting next to the man she would be lot more taller than the man. I just wanted to point that out. I see you have gain lot more understanding in your ability to draw the human figure.
Keep up the good work
Back to the Basics
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December 15th, 2007 #623
sorry for not dropping by for so long marleen, i really like the amount of studies and life drawing you are doing (makes me feel so ashamed haha) and i dont see why u shouldn't post your creature studies in here, i for one, find them pretty interesting and not boring.
also i like the colours in your work recently, although i think there is a perspective problem with this piece. the tombstone in the foreground, the seat, and the lady upside down dont seem to match very well in spacial sense...but i suck too badly in terms of perspective to tell you how to fix exactly sorry
keep working hard! i added you on msn if u dont mind ... would be nice to crit each other on LMS3...(i still have to start on mine )
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December 16th, 2007 #624
Dammit Marleen, of course post the work that comes out of being a mentee! We don't care if we just see skeletons, we (or at least I) will still enjoy them.
I'm still waiting on that LMS entry to hit my PM box...... I know you're busy but if you have nothing at least let me see a sketch or something.....
at this point I don't have a whole lot of crit for you, but I'd like to see you take some of those life drawings further. I know you have limited time per session but I'm thinking that you could go back later and begin to render some of the sketches that you have. It would be good practice rendering forms and it'll look nice to boot.
Anyway, keep it up!
EDIT: i wanted to ask you what's the deal with the little orb deal in your avatar, i've seen it on a few other people but don't know what it means. is it an LMS enterer thing?
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December 16th, 2007 #625
December 18th, 2007 #626
Spent part of my afternoon going through your SB. Really nice work you have in here and a great showing of progression. Your work has really matured over the last few years and it looks like you are heading in the right direction to continue to develop your skills. You show a great amount of dedication in this SB which is commendable. Thanks for sharing and I look forward to future updates.
December 19th, 2007 #627
Thanks for all the great crits! I'll reply a little later, I'm getting a headache from sitting behind the computer at the moment (feeling a little ill)
First: the drawing updateLove
These are all 5-min lifedrawing sketches, these were too big to scan for the previous update.
One more lifedrawing sketch (gah ) and two figures from mind.
My 'finished' 40 x 50 cm colour pencil drawing. I got a 9 for this (despite the proportion issues with the female and the gravestone that were pointed out ^^), and for my process (which I spent a lot of time on) I got a 10 out of 10! that rarely happens so I was really amazed when I got my final grade: a 9,5 I feel pretty flattered to get such high grades..
Second: some fun pictures that I thought would be nice to share here
These are from a boring science class where we (meaning the teacher and the group) usually don't do much because our class is very quick in understanding things he explains, so we only need 10 minutes a lesson for school stuff
A friend of mine and me took my kneaded eraser and made two cats, a giraffe and an elephant of it.. I happened to have a digital camera with me so I took some pictures.. Just for fun ^^
my awesome super duper drawing table (got it second hand for really cheap.. so lucky!) + anatomy book which I usually work from.
My collection of sketchbooks and pads (left), and my art books and ImagineFX mags on the right! Gah, I feel so spoiled!
Last edited by NoŽ; December 19th, 2007 at 03:58 AM.
December 19th, 2007 #628
Hi Marleen, still improving in your lifesketches...
Congratulations on the great grade you received from that work, the human figures look great, but I think the "intersection of the girl with the tree is a little odd. Also I think the foliage needed some more work, did you use a specific tree as a reference? It seems like a Ficus from the roots...
I have that Schielle book too.. (great price...)
December 25th, 2007 #629
December 25th, 2007 #630
good stuff from the netherlands!
"Tears will drown in the wake of delight"