Bologna at night *** UPDATED (now, night herself)
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Thread: Bologna at night *** UPDATED (now, night herself)

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    Bologna at night *** UPDATED (now, night herself)



    30/50 cm Charcoal on paper

    Well, maybe is not hyper realism, but I think there is some of city at night feeling

    Last edited by Danilo; July 7th, 2005 at 05:11 PM.
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    Interesting Danilo, specially after I just read your post on ArtGod's thread. I think you've got a good start to a nice abstract piece. Are you gonna color this? I'd really like to see you work into this some more, but keep the loose, abstract feeling.

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    Hey man, Im realy glad that you like it . I was thinking to do some oils in this manier.
    Actualy I am pretty new it this but talking with my proffesor in academy helped me to decide to break through manierism wich 10 years of comics drawing has left.

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    w.t.f is that supposed to be, really-bad-english-dude?
    christ....

    We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.
    -Bill Hicks


    Sketchbook Old SketchBook Portfolio GorillaArtFare
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    Danilo, I'm suprised, you usually do more representational, fine art stuff. Well, all artist grow and become interested in new things.

    To be honest, I find it hard to tell what's going on. I know, or I assume, that this is a landscape drawing of Bologna. But I only knew that because of the title. Take away the title, and I got nothin.

    If this is the rough sketch of a city scape, then I think the drawing you have suits the purpose just fine. However, for others who don't know what the intention is, it's confusing. You could put some defining landmarks of a city, such as a the straight lines of building walls, or sketch the lines of street curbs. But agian, I'm not sure what you were going after in this sketch.

    I do see some suggestions of buildings. I think if you just worked on this sketch for one more hour, *then* posted it, it would have been more vivid. I also see the masses of the dark shapes, hinting at trees, and a windmill up at the top. I suppose... Just keep doing what your doing.

    However, it certainly is interesting.

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    what am i looking at here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck,mate.
    w.t.f is that supposed to be, really-bad-english-dude?
    christ....
    Forse capisci Italiano? Non parlo Englese tanto bene, ili mozda hoces Srpski, to mi je maternji?
    Quote Originally Posted by fungi
    what am i looking at here?
    Bologna at night.

    ParkerD: thanks that you remember my stuff. Well, I dont want to go more with this. Im doing now some more stuff this way. I hope that by time I could connect expresion with concept.

    Last edited by Danilo; June 21st, 2005 at 03:23 PM.
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    This is kind of messy, even for loosely works. I think the least you can do is to use different shadings to create a sense of depth. It'd be a lot better (even for abstract art or impressionism) if you have successfully create a good sense of depth and forms.

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    I dont want to draw form, or anything three-dimensional. I want to find, or at least try to find some new aproach to visual arts.

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    well you have succeeded in creating a big mess. learn the basics before you go making your own approach to "visual arts". and may i remind you this is a concept art forum.

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    "Learn the Basics" is all I here from you people. That's all well and good if your going for traditional art and not something new. I say if your not going for something ordinary then you can't be judged by such critics. Danilo I think you've got something here rock on.

    Last edited by Cbird; June 21st, 2005 at 05:27 PM.
    I wonder if Picasso ever looked at another artist's work and thought to himself "I suck."

    Sketchbook of mine this is
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    "Learn the basics" could take 10 lifes. And when you know that basics are learned?
    "This is concept art forum." but this is wip section

    Cbrid: thanks for support, and thanks all of you for oppinions exchange

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    It has potential, but currently it is simply a mess. There is no direction to any of it, due to a tonal blandness that removes the detail from all the small drawings lost in all those smudgy, smeary strokes.
    It you don't want to draw form, or anything 3D, then what is building, a sword, the tower of a building, and a fence doing there?

    You're tryin' to blow smoke, Danilo, and using "abstract" as an excuse for a work that looks like a poorly executed mess of smears with little real direction or exhibition of the basics.

    Sure, always grow as an artist, but don't hide behind BS when a piece is bad. Admit it's bad and then move on, or don't. Just be honest about it.

    For anyone interested in a good article regarding the appreciation of true abstract art, read this.

    Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional
    I am The Choosen One!
    Jason sez: Draw more from Life!

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    Quote Originally Posted by madster
    Sure, always grow as an artist, but don't hide behind BS when a piece is bad. Admit it's bad and then move on, or don't. Just be honest about it.
    well said dude.

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    i.... i really cant tell what i'm looking at.

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    as much as you don't want to hear it, learn the basics. you need to understand what you're distorting before you pull it apart. i even checked through your sketchbook first to see what you were capable of and if you even had a right to be pushing the boundaries of modern visual art, but what i found is what everyone's already said. you've got some talent, but it needs a lot of refining before you get anywhere close to what you're trying to do here.

    ...in fact, i don't even know what you're trying to do here.

    fasjd;...
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    Experimenting is always good and I hope and think you might have gained something out of drawing this. However the work in itself is just a mess.

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    Some of you guys are posting some pretty unnecessary comments if you ask me.

    First up, crits...
    Danilo- What you're trying to do is great- you're trying to approach an entirely different style from the one you normally use.
    I've seen some of your other stuff and this is quite different, particularly from your digital stuff.

    You're making a whole different type of mark with your charcoal than you seem to use in your more figurative or representational stuff. I'm guessing you're also working on a bigger scale than usual which is also good.

    Having said that, there are a few things I think you need to keep in mind...

    1. Composition- What do you want us to focus on? Or, how can you keep us interested by helping our eyes move around the work? Your composition seems to be moving up the centre of the drawing toward the tower looking thing at the top centre. All the diagonals point that way. Only problem is, there's nothing there either to keep us interested or to keep our eye moving...

    2. Tone- As look said, you can help give your drawing a bit more visual interest by where you place your tones and the tonal range you use. This gives the drawing a feeling of depth, even if it's not a drawing of forms or anything. If you half close your eyes and look at your drawing you'll notice that overall, it is very much the same tonally. There are only two or three dark areas (the upper corners and a patch in the bottom middle) and no real highlights (even the blank spots read as a midtone because of the colour of the paper). If there is a variety of tone and areas of contrast we will be more visually interested- this works hand in hand with composition.

    3. Knowledge- A few people have told you to 'learn the basics'. I'll get to that in a minute. What I suggest you do, ESPECIALLY if you want to create a new style of art is know where you come from- know your art history. There aren't any artists I know of who have created entirely new styles of art just by being brilliant. Most revolutionary artists are drawing from other art that has gone before *or* they are rebelling against art that has gone before. Picasso drew a lot of influence from African art, for example. You can't do either of those things unless you know what has come before you. Look at 'traditional' artists (from church art to illustration to whatever else) and also look at 'abstract' artists. Look at contemporary artists...look at as much art as you can. From that knowledge you can start to make choices about how you approach art and how you approach each work. You can decide for yourself if you want to be more abstract, more realistic or whatever.

    That's my crits and all...

    Now- to some others:

    A few of you have said "Learn the basics"
    That's a really easy way of implying you know something and actually saying nothing. It helps nobody. What basics are you referring to? Are you referring to the basics of lineweight? composition? colour? anatomy? perspective? form? lighting?
    It seems to me like a pretty dismissive comment and pretty much useless to the artist who receives it. If you went to a drawing class and the lecturer looked at your work and said "hmm....you need to learn the basics" and walked away, what would you have learned beyond what you already know?

    As for the "you need to know what you're distorting before you pull it apart" idea- I disagree. I agree that you need to know about the formal elements of drawing/painting (tone, composition, etc) but why do you need to know how to draw a cityscape in proper representational, observational accuracy if you intend to use the cityscape you see in reality as a starting point to abstract from?
    Dali knew how to paint from life and he used that to enhance his surrealist paintings but could Pollock draw a perspectivally correct cityscape? Could Warhol?
    I doubt they would see much point in it...

    Chuck,mate: What kinda post is that supposed to be, really-bad-attitude-boy? It's ironic that you crit Danilo for his apparent 'bad english' in a sentence that is made up of abbreviations and grammatical errors. Maybe you should be posting crits on a forum for English as a Second Language.org or something.

    Fungi- so it's a concept art forum...what's your point?

    madster- how is he "blowing smoke"? As far as I can tell, Danilo was trying something different...art isn't always about the product but also about the process- to me, this looks like part of his process of going in a new direction for him as an artist. It's not a bad piece and he doesn't have to admit that it is. If he defends his work then good on him, as long as he's not totally unwilling to learn or see his faults.

    ycsmt16- when did you become the judge of who is 'capable' and who isn't? When did you decide who has the *right* to push the boundaries of modern visual art?? We all have the *right* to push the boundaries of any kind of art we choose. No-one, living or dead can take that right away and you certainly can't grant or deny it to anyone, I don't care how good your work is.


    Well that's it. Flame on

    Sydney artist Luke Marcatili

    "Fear is the mindkiller..."
    - The Litany Against Fear
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  20. #20
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    Expat, although your concern and efforts to defend Danilo are to be commended, this is a case where your chivalry is not needed.

    Danilo has replied to many threads here at CA, and has proffered his opinions on composition, detail, backgrounds, shadows, anatomy, space, atmosphere and mood. He is quite fond of telling people to "draw from Life."
    Trust me, he knows what the rest of us are telling him when we said "Learn the Basics." He has enough "real world" experience that he actually has a very good grasp of the basics.
    What you thought was a dismissive comment was actually a very pointed one.

    My comment about blowing smoke is another way of letting Danilo know that this piece goes against everything he's ever preached to others about Composition and Design. Although the attempt to overcome a decade or more of bad drawing mannerisms from comics is to be commended, like anything else, "Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance...", and this piece, freeing as it may be for Danilo, is so lacking in so many of the basics that he himself tells others about, that it is like going to a drawing class where the instructor teaches you all the basics, and then says "but they don't matter," and walks out of the classroom...
    Art is only about the process when a tutorial is being made. If you don't believe me, ask Jackson Pollock, a firm believer in "process" over "product." That is also the justification behind "performance art," and it's still a bunch of crap. The audience is concerned with what they see, not how it got there.

    The excuse regarding "form, or anything three-dimensional" was crap, as was the "try to find some new approach to visual arts" to cover up how bad this piece is in relation to all of the accepted and known "basics," which Danilo knows all too well.

    The young'uns commenting who haven't been here long enough to be familiar with Danilo's replies to threads are simply uninformed, but even they go, "I can't tell what it is." That is NOT Bologna at night, except the kind of bologna from a deli. It could be Barcelona, Paris, or downtown Bisbee, Arizona. Heck, it could be the back of my closet at night!

    Fungi is dead on, in that this IS a concept art forum, and even WIP's should have something behind them beyond smudged charcoal with a few "formless, non-three-dimensional" objects sketched in. This piece shows no concept, nor much of anything, really, which is why so many here have termed it "a mess," which it is.

    Your comment to ycsm16 is laughable.
    "When did you become the judge of who is 'capable' and who isn't?" Expat, anyone with a pair of eyes looking at ANYTHING that does not visually "jive" with what they are being told, is a judge of 'capable.' And, if you re-read his reply correctly, you will see that he checked Danilo's sketchbook to see what Danilo was capable of, slight difference in intent, Bucko. To top it off, his comment was dead on, in that Danilo has some talent which still needs refining, and that his development is NOT at a level to be pushing the boundaries of modern visual art as he finds "some new approach."

    It might well be asked at this point, who died and made you the critque sheriff? We ALL could tell Danilo was trying something different, you're not revealing anything new. Although he does not have to admit that it is a bad piece, he should NOT defend it, as his defenses were full of holes, in effect, lying to himself about the piece, which will always hinder learning when you can't see/admit faults. A far better approach to lame excuses is a neutral "I hadn't looked at it that way, thank you for your comments," and then moving on.

    You have the *right* to push any damn boundary, artistic or otherwise that you think you can, BUT, if you play "Show and Tell" with it in a venue that is inappropriate, then you also take on the possibility that others will push back, which is exactly what happened in this case, okay? No one was taking that *right* away, and FYI, depending upon your location on this planet, you most certainly CAN be denied the opportunity to push boundaries of many kinds, modern visual art being just one under restrictions...

    So sheathe your sword, oh noble defender, the victim here is in no need of it.

    Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional
    I am The Choosen One!
    Jason sez: Draw more from Life!

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    Here are new one. I know there should be more of them






    Pastel on paper.
    On this one you can see hatch wich Im willing to get rid of.

    Thanks you all for replyes, expetialy expat for understanding and difend. He acutaly is onley one who gived a constructive crit, most of you have just sad stop to do this. Some of you critiqe me for replying, on others posts, something that I dont understand. If some of you/them dont want my replyes, give a notice.

    I know that my work is not good enough, and never will be, because, painting is walking in labirynth of human brain, witch is allmoust endless. So we are sprinters with finish in infinity, and you sad: stop to run in wrong direction???

    There is a lot of things that make picture in our mind different from the photo. You are pretty shure about corectness of perspective and tone theories? That basics are not from sand?

    Lets get it clear. I want to do abstract, and this is my first baby dance... Im still working on basics (right now is shading primitives). Im not telling you THIS IS GREAT, YOU SHOULD BUY IT!

    "and FYI, depending upon your location on this planet, you most certainly CAN be denied the opportunity to push boundaries of many kinds, modern visual art being just one under restrictions..."
    ***********************MIRROR********************* *****
    "and FYI, depending upon your location on this planet, you most certainly CAN be denied the opportunity to learn the basics..."

    Is this what you telling me??

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    Can´t really see what´s going on in the first of the three new ones. To me that´s just a big mess.
    The second one is pretty good, though it is a little bland. I really like the clear strokes of it.
    The third one is very nice indeed. Grand scale and lots of volume. Nice

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    Thanks. Please leave a crit, even the harshest one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danilo
    Thanks you all for replyes, expetialy expat for understanding and difend. He acutaly is onley one who gived a constructive crit, most of you have just sad stop to do this.
    No, Danilo, we said that this is bad to look at because it is so poorly executed that no one can determine what it is you drew. You could have named it "Bag of Salt at Night," and it would have had the same effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danilo-
    Some of you critiqe me for replying, on others posts, something that I dont understand.
    I critiqued your reply, because you have made an excuse that does not seem true.
    *If you did not want any form or 3d effect, why did you include the sword blade, the building and the fence?
    *You tell people many times to "draw from life," then you submit this piece, which is very bad in Value, Line, Perspective, Shape, Space, and Balance.
    *You give the excuse that you are trying to correct bad habits from cartoons. This exercise is so hard to understand, it corrects your good habits, also.
    If some of you/them dont want my replyes, give a notice.
    We don't want you pretending that a messy, badly executed work is some sort of revolutionary change in the Visual Arts.
    We don't want you to say one thing, "draw more from life," and then post a WIP that badly needs to follow your own advice.
    We don't want you to say, "Please leave a crit, even the harshest one," and then twist the crits of "this is a mess," and "I don't know what I am looking at," so that you seem like a victim here.

    And yes, I understand your English difficulties. You do VERY well under the circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danilo
    I know that my work is not good enough, and never will be, because, painting is walking in labirynth of human brain, witch is allmoust endless. So we are sprinters with finish in infinity, and you sad: stop to run in wrong direction???
    Yes, I did, but I do not say "Stop. Now, run in the wrong direction." I say, "Stop. Do NOT run in the wrong direction." You are not experienced or educated enough to discover a new form of Visual Art at this time, and by trying to do so by abandoning the skills that you have not yet mastered, you only succeed in stopping the sprint, turning around, closing your eyes, and then stumbling backwards into infinity, missing the beauty before you by trying to rewrite what has already been done, and been done better than you are trying to do.
    You must fully understand the rules of art before you can successfully bend or break them.
    No, it does not take 10 lifetimes to LEARN the basics, although, if you are stubborn, it can take 10 lifetimes to MASTER them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danilo
    There is a lot of things that make picture in our mind different from the photo. You are pretty shure about corectness of perspective and tone theories? That basics are not from sand?
    Yes, very much so! Do you presume to call the observations of perpsective, and anatomy, and balance, and all the rest of the Basics "sand?" These have been taught for centuries, from Michaelangelo onward, and you think they are "sand?" If you take the time and study art, you will see that even the masters of abstract and surreal art, such as Picasso, Miro, Dali, and others still apply the Basics to their works. You do not see such a muddy mess, where background, foreground, middleground, and subject are indistinguishable from each other. You do not see poor values and form. You may see the Basics "pushed" to some limits, but you can still very clearly identify them. The exception to this are the canvases of white, with just a slightly darker shade of white painted on them. Your work cannot even qualify for this type of abstract, as you have not mastered color enough to break the rules thusly. You would do well to rethink the Basics as being "sand..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Danilo
    Lets get it clear. I want to do abstract, and this is my first baby dance... Im still working on basics (right now is shading primitives). Im not telling you THIS IS GREAT, YOU SHOULD BUY IT!
    And let's get it clear, you have to know what Abstract Art IS before you can dance at all. You can't shade primitives until you know what a primitive is and how to create one. Untrained art (primitives) is NOT the same as bad, messy art. But, if you know of any famous primitive artists who make smudgy, blurry messes, please give a link!
    Abstract art uses shapes, colors, and lines as compositional elements in and of themselves. A messy blob of charcoal smudges over some poor sketching of a sword, a fence, some flexible tube-type thing, and a building isn't Abstract in any way, it's just a bad, smudgy, smeary, charcoal mess. This is why many replies simply said "I don't know what this is."
    Quote Originally Posted by Danilo
    "and FYI, depending upon your location on this planet, you most certainly CAN be denied the opportunity to push boundaries of many kinds, modern visual art being just one under restrictions..."
    ***********************MIRROR********************* *****
    "and FYI, depending upon your location on this planet, you most certainly CAN be denied the opportunity to learn the basics..."
    Is this what you telling me??
    Acutally, Danilo, YES, in some locations of this planet that is absolutely true. Just read about how females in the Middle East are forbidden from attending school...
    BUT, Danilo, YOU have access to the internet. YOU have access to the opinions of many people of many backgrounds in forums like this one. YOU have the opportunity to practice your art, and learn what it is you need to know before you think you are capable of revolutionizing the visual arts. Therefore, your continued defense of this bad work is sad from two points.
    1. You cannot admit that you just might be inflating the value of this work beyond reason,
    2. You do not understand the concepts of abstraction enough to understand why you should not be defending this piece.

    Of your "new" posts, again, the smudginess of the first one defeats any real appreciation of what it is you might be trying to convey. The tree in the second one is well executed except for the blue hatching on the left side, as viewed. The third one is more impressionistic than abstract, but the values are too hard, giving it an air of confusion.

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  25. #25
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    "Please leave a crit, even the harshest one," and then twist the crits of "this is a mess," and "I don't know what I am looking at," so that you seem like a victim here. -- Good thing about this forum, and other art forums is that you can hear others people oppinion. You do something that to you seems very clear, but acctualy it is not for the others. Most of you sad that it is a mess, so it is, I agree. I dont agree that I need to stop going that way.

    "Im still working on basics (right now is shading primitives)..."
    Means shading cubes, balls etc.

    "You tell people many times to "draw from life," then you submit this piece,"
    -- it is drawn from life. All 4 images are from life. -- "which is very bad in Value, Line, Perspective, Shape, Space, and Balance" -- acctualy I think that there is lot (in the first) of different lines, and also balance, If you forget perspective, shape and space, resting is only value witch is bad, as somebody have mentioned, and give flatness to the piece.

    "We don't want you pretending that a messy, badly executed work is some sort of revolutionary change in the Visual Arts." -- Im just trying to change/improve my sight to visual arts.

    My shot: Here, on CA, are lot of artist good in basics but so similar to each other, that I have need to post some abstract/messy/destructive things. Also there is so much digital work, that I need to knead my charcoal on paper.

    And thanks for crits at my new work. Im pretty agree with you. Actualy hardness and mechanical strokes are something that I wish to change.


    My new sig.

    Last edited by Danilo; June 26th, 2005 at 05:20 PM.
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  26. #26
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    Hey madster-
    I probably got a little cranky with my last response on this thread and i appreciated your comments in response.

    Danilo has replied to many threads here at CA, and has proffered his opinions on composition, detail, backgrounds, shadows, anatomy, space, atmosphere and mood. He is quite fond of telling people to "draw from Life."
    Trust me, he knows what the rest of us are telling him when we said "Learn the Basics." He has enough "real world" experience that he actually has a very good grasp of the basics.
    What you thought was a dismissive comment was actually a very pointed one.
    That sounds a bit like "he did it first, so we're doing it back to him". I can understand the desire to want to do that but does it really help anyone?

    Art is only about the process when a tutorial is being made. If you don't believe me, ask Jackson Pollock, a firm believer in "process" over "product."
    I didn't really get what you were trying to say here...

    The excuse regarding "form, or anything three-dimensional" was crap, as was the "try to find some new approach to visual arts" to cover up how bad this piece is in relation to all of the accepted and known "basics," which Danilo knows all too well.
    It didn't seem like an excuse to me, but rather his statement of intention...
    He said:
    I dont want to draw form, or anything three-dimensional. I want to find, or at least try to find some new aproach to visual arts.
    Note the 'or at least try to find some new approach...'. Sounds like he has set himself a goal, not that he's claiming to have achieved it. This work isn't the revolutionary stuff but maybe it's the first steps in the process toward it.

    That is NOT Bologna at night, except the kind of bologna from a deli. It could be Barcelona, Paris, or downtown Bisbee, Arizona. Heck, it could be the back of my closet at night!
    It is Bologna at Night if that's what he wants to call it. It can be called Bologna at Night if he used that as his inspiration.

    Your comment to ycsm16 is laughable
    This is what ycsmt16 said:
    i even checked through your sketchbook first to see what you were capable of and if you even had a right to be pushing the boundaries of modern visual art,
    I disagree with someone claiming they can decide if someone else has a 'right' to push the boundaries of modern visual art- we all have that right if we choose to exercise it. I think I got a bit carried away on that point- should've edited it a bit more closely.
    As for the comment about certain peoples being oppressed- unfortunately it's true, some people are restrained from expressing themselves creatively. That does not mean their oppressors morally have the right to do so.

    The point about this being a concept art forum is fine- I stepped in on that point because I believe there should be a place for art in a more general sense (beyond illustration, concept design etc) in this community in some way. At this point, there doesn't seem to be much place for that. I think that it would be good because it would help open up some peoples artistic knowledge and interest and help them broaden their approach to concept art/ illustration etc.

    Finally, I don't consider myself Crit Sherriff at all- I tried to give Danilo a detailed and (hopefully) helpful crit. I was responding to what I saw overall as posts that were critting the artist rather than the artwork and I don't think that's what conceptart.org is all about.

    Hopefully that clears up some of my intentions- not interested in getting into an argument about all this...

    Sydney artist Luke Marcatili

    "Fear is the mindkiller..."
    - The Litany Against Fear
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    Man, I allways get heart attack when I see that this tread have new messages.

    Quote Originally Posted by expat
    The point about this being a concept art forum is fine- I stepped in on that point because I believe there should be a place for art in a more general sense (beyond illustration, concept design etc) in this community in some way. At this point, there doesn't seem to be much place for that. I think that it would be good because it would help open up some peoples artistic knowledge and interest and help them broaden their approach to concept art/ illustration etc.
    Right in the point.

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    I think the problem with many of your crits Danilo is that they have a very limited ability to understand your work. Unless it say's "I'm a tree"... they won't see that. And would someone please define the meaning of concept art for me cause I think everyone has a skewed version of what it actually means. Well while I'm at it I might as well be the one to break this word down that everyone argues over, Concept.

    which means according to Dictionary.com

    # A general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences.
    # Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion. See Synonyms at idea.
    # A scheme; a plan: “began searching for an agency to handle a new restaurant concept”

    oh and here are its synonyms (words that have the same meaning for those of you that don't know)

    abstraction, apprehension, approach, big idea, brain wave, brainchild, conceit, conception, conceptualization, consideration, hypothesis, image, impression, intellection, notion, perception, slant, supposition, theory, thought, twist, view, wienie, wrinkle<-- don't exactly get that one

    Where in the hell does it say Concept has to be pictures of Vikings and Ninjas!? Also art isn't ment to stagnate and remain the same from generation to generation it's supposed to change an revolutionize from time to time. So for the love of all that is good and holy quit your bitching!!!

    I wonder if Picasso ever looked at another artist's work and thought to himself "I suck."

    Sketchbook of mine this is
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    Im wondering is this concept or abstract?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cbird
    I think the problem with many of your crits Danilo is that they have a very limited ability to understand your work. Unless it say's "I'm a tree"... they won't see that. And would someone please define the meaning of concept art for me cause I think everyone has a skewed version of what it actually means. Well while I'm at it I might as well be the one to break this word down that everyone argues over, Concept.
    which means according to Dictionary.com
    # A general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences.
    # Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion. See Synonyms at idea.
    # A scheme; a plan: “began searching for an agency to handle a new restaurant concept”

    oh and here are its synonyms (words that have the same meaning for those of you that don't know)

    abstraction, apprehension, approach, big idea, brain wave, brainchild, conceit, conception, conceptualization, consideration, hypothesis, image, impression, intellection, notion, perception, slant, supposition, theory, thought, twist, view, wienie, wrinkle<-- don't exactly get that one

    Where in the hell does it say Concept has to be pictures of Vikings and Ninjas!? Also art isn't ment to stagnate and remain the same from generation to generation it's supposed to change an revolutionize from time to time. So for the love of all that is good and holy quit your bitching!!! :pirate:
    CBird, that would be all well and good, except you are leaving off the pertinent word in this discussion, e.g. concept art. You are only defining half of a whole, leaving off 50%...
    All italics and bold emphasis mine:
    Quote Originally Posted by www.artlex.com
    conceptual art or Conceptual Art - Art that is intended to convey an idea or a concept to the perceiver, rejecting the creation or appreciation of a traditional art object such as a painting or a sculpture as a precious commodity.

    Conceptual Art emerged as an art movement in the 1960s. The expression "concept art" was used in 1961 by Henry Flynt in a Fluxus publication, but it was to take on a different meaning when it was used by Joseph Kosuth (American, 1945-) and the Art & Language group (Terry Atkinson, David Bainbridge, Michael Baldwin, Harold Hurrell, Ian Burn, Mel Ramsden, Philip Pilkington, and David Rushton) in England. For the Art & Language group, concept art resulted in an art object being replaced by an analysis of it. Exponents of Conceptual Art said that artistic production should serve artistic knowledge and that the art object is not an end in itself. The first exhibition specifically devoted to Conceptual Art took place in 1970 at the New York Cultural Center under the title "Conceptual Art and Conceptual Aspects."
    Because Conceptual Art is so dependent upon the text (or discourse) surrounding it, it is strongly related to numerous other movements of the last century.
    So many people lose sight of the "concept" part of "conceptual art." It is not the art itself, it is the concept behind it. BUT, just as excellent workmanship cannot make a bad idea good concept art, neither can bad workmanship make an excellent idea concept art. The "basics" still apply. Look at Duchamp (besides the damn urinal), Dali, Ralph McQuarrie, Ryan Church, and others.

    Here's a Job Description for a Concept Artist:
    Quote Originally Posted by MadDocSoftware.com
    Concept Artist
    Candidates for concept artist will be judged primarily on artistic talent. If you have a super hot portfolio that includes character, scenic environment and architectural concepts, we’d like to take a look at it. Samples of quick rough sketches, along with final rendered samples are required.

    The ideal candidate will also possess the following skills:

    Adept in Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator
    Fluent in drawing and paint mediums
    A working knowledge of how concept art relates to the final real-time game product
    Ability to take direction from the Art Director
    Storyboard capabilities and general knowledge of 3-D techniques
    Quality, consistency and speed are traits necessary for a good concept designer in a fast-paced game production environment. Under supervision of the art director, the concept artist establishes the tone and the mood of the game, creating concepts incorporating both digital and traditional techniques.
    Don Seegmiller's book, "Digital Character design and Painting" gives some very in-depth directions and exercises on developing characters through concept. Back story, the idea behind the character, is the core of Conceptual art. Sometimes this exists as actual written narrative, sometimes the art tells the story, but either way, it is the story behind the art, not the art itself. Mediocre and bad art tell no stories. They instead leave the viewer puzzled and confused, because no concept is conveyed in them.

    Abstract Art is NOT Conceptual Art (and don't confuse the concept synonym abstraction with "abstract art"). Anyone who doesn't know the difference, and actually cares one way or the other, should simply do some reading, and some online viewing of works. You'll hopefully then understand the difference, and see why although ubiquitous, troll demons, vikings and ninjas are better examples of concept art than murky landscapes of indefinable shapes and smears...

    ~M

    Last edited by madster; July 1st, 2005 at 05:14 PM. Reason: Can't spell for **** with a wrist brace, or I type faster than I think.
    Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional
    I am The Choosen One!
    Jason sez: Draw more from Life!

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