Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 50
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    144
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Real artists or fake artists?

    I recently talked to my dad, somehow we managed to discuss about art. And I was explaining people have to work to get where they are, even in art, meaning practising to perfect your art.. But then he said that an artists doesnt need to practise art, theyre artists, It comes to them they never need to practice etc.

    Then he said there are people who are born artists, who do art. And there are the fake artists, who beleive theyre artists yet they will never be an artist.. I am extremely confused, and a bit offended in this, as it sounds like all of those who try their hardest to practise and get better, are nothing but fakes and we will never reach the goals we wish for in our art..

    I thought every artist needed to work to where they got by practising art and drawing heaps to enhance their abilities. I cant tell if my dad is right or wrong in this matter..


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Oakville, ON
    Posts
    1,989
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
    I wouldn't completely believe your dad or completely diss his words.

    You are right, artists need to work on their craft to be able to come up with good artwork.


    Your dad's not wrong too....there are some fake artists around the world who had 2 or 3 pieces of "award winning" artwork and get by with those dubious credentials.


    In the industry of movie/TV/videogames however I think a fake artist will have a much harder time bluffing his way through.
    ********************************
    There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and THE TRUTH.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    4,140
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 98 Times in 61 Posts
    HI there. Just had to say a few words.
    Your dad is both wrong and right- that happens sometimes, lol. I think all artist are born artist, some realize this early - as children - and some realize this later in life. There are people waking around, never happy with their work and stuff, suddenly they start drawing and boom, it hits them - This is what I am. Well, clearly they need a lot of practice to get where they want to be!!!
    Take a look at van Gogh - this guy sucked so bad for many years and he hated himself for it - so he was painting 24/7 to become good. Instead of giving up he just kept fighting. (well, in the ned he killed himself tho But before that he did some heavy stuff! Picasso did paintings in the style and allmost as good as Delacroix and other badasses like him at the age of 14, but he had a farther who was a painter to - he gave up painting himself to teach his son the stuff. You look at Picassos early stuff and think; wow thats a born artist - which he was - but he had a teacher right behind him for many years. Picasso worked very very hard as a child and young man to become good - he copied a lot of other artist: Pissarro, Toulouse-Lautrec, El Greco(so cool) etc.
    i could say alot more, but i got no time sry. All artist have to work practice practice practice - if you love that, if you dont give up even when its really hard - you are a true artist in my eyes.
    It took da vinci four years to finish Mona Lisa, he didnt just get up one morning and splashed it on a canvas, because he was a born artist...
    Take your dad to a museum...

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    144
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    my dads view of a fake artist is those who also practise art, he beleives that your ONLY born with this talent, that they can just do it, and they do it all right. And that artists who are born artists dont need practise, they just do it and its perfect.. its confusing :/ makes me feel like hes telling me to stop doing art because im just a fakist who wont ever get better and that im not an artist. But I beleive I am, and I beleive many others like myself are too, just we need to work to get to our maximum ability.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    4,140
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 98 Times in 61 Posts
    Heh im back, just shortly - if you want to become an artist - first thing goes; get used to hearing a lot bullshit from people that dont know anything about art - all your dad does is showing how little he knows...
    second thing is just keep doing what you are doing!!!
    you are an artist!

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    France.
    Posts
    2,083
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
    Hi, Kyliegirl !
    I'm 500% agree with Fellah. If you had to heard some crits, pay attention to the artist's ones, the others probably be more disturbing... Don't give up, just practice, and ENJOY !!!
    J.
    (apologies for silly English).

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Ask him if he considers Vincent Van Gogh to be an artist.

    Show him this picture and tell him that Van Gogh drew it in the beginning when he was learning how to draw. Yes learning (read: practising)
    As you can see he was struggling with anatomy and proportions, and it wasn't something that came natural to him.


    Real artists or fake artists?


    I believe drawing is seeing, and it takes practise to learn how to see without the logical part of the mind interfering and telling you how things should look. You need to develop an eye for observation, there are certain rules you have to learn in order to draw, like the physics of light and colour, perspective and so on. After you know this, you can then incorporate your own perceptions/visions/feelings into the drawings, but there are some rules you need to know and practise to make a drawing believeable (this counts drawing from life, not going to speculate in other art forms.)

    I understand what your dad is saying, but I don't agree that being an artist is only limited to some "chosen" human beings. Read Drawing on the Right side of the Brain by Betty Edwards, and you will see that anyone anyone can learn to draw. Deep down we are all artists. There is just so much voodoo in the ability to draw put by society.
    Last edited by ngnorden; May 8th, 2005 at 11:05 AM.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    144
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Alday.J
    Hi, Kyliegirl !
    I'm 500% agree with Fellah. If you had to heard some crits, pay attention to the artist's ones, the others probably be more disturbing... Don't give up, just practice, and ENJOY !!!
    J.
    (apologies for silly English).
    thx, I just worried if this was really true about artists.. needed to ask others on if its true or not :/

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    4,140
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 98 Times in 61 Posts
    By the way i didnt mean to disrepect your dad in any way - im sure part of what he is saying is a sign of love and an attempt to save his kid from a hard - which it is - life as an artist. Im sure he would prefer if you got a normal job, which would provide more stability in your life. But its a choise between wanting a safe and easy life for your child, turning he or she into a grey little mouse or seeing them fly like an eagle reaching for the dream and sometimes burn the wings. I have a son myself and if he told me he wanted to be an astronaut. i would say thats good man, go for it - its gonna be hard as hell, but do your best and fight for it. Following his dream will make him a cooler dude, wheither he makes it or not. I would rather see him fail reaching for the moon, than sitting in an office dreaming about what might have happend.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,623
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 77 Times in 63 Posts
    My parents told me almost the same thing when I wanted to give up my engineering career and become a fulltime artist (end up I work as an IT after all). They were using my childhood friends as examples, one of them are a pretty accomplished artist in China right now while the other is doing a lot of comissions. They were saying how they have talent and I don't, and I told them that I don't believe in talent, and the only thing set us apart is our ambitions. Those two friends of mine were a lot more stubborn and strong willed than me, they don't bend because their parents threaten them they'd disown them if they go to art school or things like that, so they end up succeed.
    =) Hopefully things work out for you.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    4,140
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 98 Times in 61 Posts

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    723
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts
    Talent is largely a myth. Yes, it comes easier to some people, in some cases very easy, but even then, only hard work will let them become and remain successful. Art schools around the country are littered with dropouts who came in with prodigous talent, and then discovered they would have to work hard to succeed.

    People think that talent alone is enough, and you might be successful in the short term on just talent, but in the long term you just stagnate as less talented people work hard and eventually surpass you.

    Take a look at Marko (or a lot of others on this site). He's almost entirely self-taught, so you could say he was born with great talent for art. But I guarantee that even with that, he had to work long and hard to improve, to get to the point he's at now. Lungbug is another good example of that.

    Unless your father is a professional artist, I would take his opinions (and that's all they are) with a grain of salt.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,201
    Thanks
    4,875
    Thanked 16,685 Times in 5,021 Posts
    Is your father an artist?


    No?


    I didn't think so.

    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,260
    Thanks
    48
    Thanked 233 Times in 68 Posts
    I'd say your Dad is full of shit (no offense ).

    Does an Author need to learn how to write - yes
    Does a Musician need to learn how to play - yes
    etc.

    are they artists? YES....


    there ya go.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    nice one nicolas

    I'll use that next time this common discussion comes up and I'm gonna whoop ass!

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,925
    Thanks
    410
    Thanked 273 Times in 205 Posts
    no offense but your dad doesn't know anything. (about what you guys were talkin about of course.)

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,823
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts
    Your dad is confusing artist with artiste

    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren


  19. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,012
    Thanks
    83
    Thanked 212 Times in 117 Posts
    yes some people are born with a good eye and what not, but you can still learn to be an artist just as you can learn to swim, its just about practicing in a shallow pool and trying not to pee yourself while your in there.



    -alti

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,081
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by alti
    yes some people are born with a good eye and what not, but you can still learn to be an artist just as you can learn to swim, its just about practicing in a shallow pool and trying not to pee yourself while your in there.



    -alti
    hehe nice metaphor..

    anyway, if your dad really told you such things he seems to be somewhat shallow-minded in my humble opinion. EVERY artist (also those so-called "geniuses" and whatnot) had to work hard for getting better.
    i am absolutely convinced that EVERYONE can learn the technical part of drawing, painting, playing music and writing.
    problem is when you reached a certain level of skill it is about expressing something with your art. and that's where some people are more or less succesful with, mostly depending on their life experience, "taste", sense of design or composition, education and so on.

    you can become an artist if you are willing to struggle hard and never give up learning and evolving your art. basta.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    968
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    I think that your father might be viewing a real thing and saying it in the wrong words. I think that there are people who devote large parts of their developmental and educational years to working on becoming an artist, and if they were to push themselves just that mucht, they'd make it, but in the end, they merely lack what it takes to push themselves. They have the potential to become great if they push themselves, but they lack the actual drive to push themselves enough, and they produce mediocre art and wonder why other people are so much better. That's a "fake" artist in my view. One who can do, but does not do. One who believes that he's sailing along pretty good, when in fact he missed the boat and is treading water several feet off the dock. Maybe there's a job there for him, maybe not, but all he can do is tread water there, while the "real" artists are off in Bermuda zipping around and having a great time. It's not that there are "chosen" people, it's that people choose for themselves, whether they fully understand their choices or not, and to be a great artist requires a certain choice to be made. Not everyone sees that choice or knows about it, maybe they do and they lack the guts to make that choice. Those are the fake artists. The Hollow Men, to quote a certain smart poet dude.

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    UMass
    Posts
    38
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Fellah.
    Heh im back, just shortly - if you want to become an artist - first thing goes; get used to hearing a lot bullshit from people that dont know anything about art - all your dad does is showing how little he knows...
    second thing is just keep doing what you are doing!!!
    you are an artist!
    WHOA yes. Yes.

    practice practice practice

    Practice is everything. Some people practiced more as a kid, some didn't. Imagination can only be cultivated and multiplied; never used up.

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    UMass
    Posts
    38
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SeraphSword
    Talent is largely a myth. Yes, it comes easier to some people, in some cases very easy, but even then, only hard work will let them become and remain successful. Art schools around the country are littered with dropouts who came in with prodigous talent, and then discovered they would have to work hard to succeed.

    People think that talent alone is enough, and you might be successful in the short term on just talent, but in the long term you just stagnate as less talented people work hard and eventually surpass you.

    Take a look at Marko (or a lot of others on this site). He's almost entirely self-taught, so you could say he was born with great talent for art. But I guarantee that even with that, he had to work long and hard to improve, to get to the point he's at now. Lungbug is another good example of that.

    Unless your father is a professional artist, I would take his opinions (and that's all they are) with a grain of salt.
    Quote Originally Posted by SJ Bennighof
    I think that your father might be viewing a real thing and saying it in the wrong words. I think that there are people who devote large parts of their developmental and educational years to working on becoming an artist, and if they were to push themselves just that mucht, they'd make it, but in the end, they merely lack what it takes to push themselves. They have the potential to become great if they push themselves, but they lack the actual drive to push themselves enough, and they produce mediocre art and wonder why other people are so much better. That's a "fake" artist in my view. One who can do, but does not do. One who believes that he's sailing along pretty good, when in fact he missed the boat and is treading water several feet off the dock. Maybe there's a job there for him, maybe not, but all he can do is tread water there, while the "real" artists are off in Bermuda zipping around and having a great time. It's not that there are "chosen" people, it's that people choose for themselves, whether they fully understand their choices or not, and to be a great artist requires a certain choice to be made. Not everyone sees that choice or knows about it, maybe they do and they lack the guts to make that choice. Those are the fake artists. The Hollow Men, to quote a certain smart poet dude.
    Also, I tooootally agree with the above - I being one of those people they're talking about. I've been riding on my laurels (small as they may be) forever now, and eventually dropped out of school (I'm going back this fall, thank you very much!).

    It's just that it's so difficult to maintain the level of motivation needed to work every day. It's a choice - but not one that you can make just once and be done with; you have to remind yourself of your own intentions every time you sit down. Deffinitely an uphill battle, but I'm optimistic.

    practice practice practice

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    146
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Hi, just thought i'd add my two cents!

    I think there are two types of artists:

    Naturally talented artists are rare but they do exist and some can draw everything perfectly first time. However, they may lack creativity and ideas.

    'Made' Artists or artists who have to work on their skill may not be born with the ability to create masterpieces but have the determination to work hard to develop their skills.

    In the long run its better to have the determination and creativity than to be born with the ability as it is something that can be learned, whereas a person cannot learn to be creative or a hard worker.

    I also think that it is part of being an artist to mentor and help others who are still finding their way. I know there has a lot of problems on this site with kissing the a** of professional artists who couldn't give a sh*t about helping those trying to find their style and develop their abilities and they only really care about posting their mundane cr*p in order to get brownie points from people who aspire to be like them.

    I am not criticising CA.org, they have the best moderators i have seen on a site for a long time and act both professional yet courteous and respectful.

    I know that by helping others it is kinda increasing competition in the employment world but if you don't pay back perhaps you shouldn't take!?!

    If anyone would ever like any feedback from me, even though i am not a professional please feel free to contact me via PM, E-mail or a feedback form i have posted on my site, the URL is below. Thanks for reading all of this if you got this far and didn't get bored!!

    Feedback Form Here - It's quick and easy to use, i'll try to respond ASAP
    Last edited by OxCreative; May 8th, 2005 at 04:06 PM.

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,282
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    talent is a load of crap. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone, sucked when they first started drawing. some people can pick up concepts a bit faster, but that's the only thing that sets people apart from eachother. to anyone that says this to you, just show them MindCandyMan's sketchbook... they'll understand.
    MCM's Sketchbook

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,823
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 30 Times in 18 Posts
    some people can pick up concepts a bit faster, but that's the only thing that sets people apart from eachother.
    That is exactly what talent is. Better imagination, better natural hand-eye coordination, better visual memory, etc. Of course nobody is born with an inate talent for drawing, but they could be better setup for it.

    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren


  27. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Brighton, UK
    Posts
    4,345
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 1,173 Times in 469 Posts
    i am a fake... i copy my pet frogs sketches and claim that they are mine.. *cries*


    (oh how fun it is to joke around)


    an artist is one who speaks his mind through a creation that the artist made... you can't fake something that is there...then there is a matter of how good it looks but that isn't the real question is it ? (the original one)

    cheers!

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    BJÖRN HURRI | CONCEPT ARTIST & ILLUSTRATOR
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    MY PORTFOLIO | HURRICANES DAILY DOODLES '12
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    MY EXCLUSIVE SKETCHBOOK
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    VIKING: BATTLE FOR ASGARD
    TWITTER
    THE OTHER BROTHERS

  28. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tacompton, WA
    Posts
    1,691
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    I think your father had a bad situation as a kid and maybe wants you to stop while your ahead....but don't. He maybe wrong or right but as a parent he's just trying to look out for you in the future. You should definately ask him why he feels that way, maybe he wanted to be an artist but couldn't grasp a hold of creativity and decided that it wasn't for him, and gave himself a reason for why it had happened.
    "If you only heard one side of the story, then you must be deaf in the other ear." - Sok N. Wett

    Sok's Sketchbook Thread Last Updated November 25

  29. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    4,140
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 98 Times in 61 Posts
    me again...
    well i have been a professional painter for five years now and i kinda understand if daddy tries to protect kylie. Only having to do art is so amazing cool, but sometimes its so fucking(sry, lack of a better word) hard to. It can really get you down - no money, only making crab, noone buys the shit etc etc, and then suddenly all is well again - people start to buy your stuff again, you paint some amazing pieces and for a while everything is smooth. And then it all starts again - no money, only making crab - but hey thats the good part really! Never knowing where you are, means you are everywhere

  30. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Austin ,TX
    Posts
    23
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    i can feel for your dad

    Yes there are a lot of artists that started out liking the art but werent born with the gift so the go through a lot of schools work to be good.

    On the other hand there are artist who have been doing exceptionally well since they were in elementary school and those are the people born with it.


    So yes that are the gifted(the ones that were born with the talent)

    And there are the ungifted(the ones that were schooled)

    but just cause you make a work of art doesnt make you gifted if you were schooled it just means you know art well
    ShaviSan Shavone G.

  31. #30
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    144
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    nicolas I'd say your Dad is full of shit (no offense ).

    Does an Author need to learn how to write - yes
    Does a Musician need to learn how to play - yes
    etc.

    are they artists? YES....


    there ya go.
    I will try to remember to say that to my dad when i see him next.

    Elwell Is your father an artist?


    No?


    I didn't think so.
    he can draw a bit, but he will only draw a sketch every few years or so. the last time I remember him drawing was a tiger head, which was pretty good. When i asked him why he didnt draw more, he just said he can only manage to draw every few years when he feels like it.

    J2XA Hi, just thought i'd add my two cents!

    I think there are two types of artists:

    Naturally talented artists are rare but they do exist and some can draw everything perfectly first time. However, they may lack creativity and ideas.

    'Made' Artists or artists who have to work on their skill may not be born with the ability to create masterpieces but have the determination to work hard to develop their skills.

    In the long run its better to have the determination and creativity than to be born with the ability as it is something that can be learned, whereas a person cannot learn to be creative or a hard worker.

    I also think that it is part of being an artist to mentor and help others who are still finding their way. I know there has a lot of problems on this site with kissing the a** of professional artists who couldn't give a sh*t about helping those trying to find their style and develop their abilities and they only really care about posting their mundane cr*p in order to get brownie points from people who aspire to be like them.

    I am not criticising CA.org, they have the best moderators i have seen on a site for a long time and act both professional yet courteous and respectful.

    I know that by helping others it is kinda increasing competition in the employment world but if you don't pay back perhaps you shouldn't take!?!

    If anyone would ever like any feedback from me, even though i am not a professional please feel free to contact me via PM, E-mail or a feedback form i have posted on my site, the URL is below. Thanks for reading all of this if you got this far and didn't get bored!!
    so its better to be a learning artist than a born artist because you have more imagination? :/ hmm...... I think its different, certain people have more wider imagination. I am a learning artist, yet I lack in imagination, theres alot of brilliant artists here with awesome imagination, I have a little, but nothing comapred to the imaginations of the brilliant artists here. I often see new art by many and think "now why the hell cant i think of things like that" lol


    i do agree its probably better to learn than to already know how to draw. You get the choice of changing your style while your learning, so if your not happy how your drawing you can change it easier if your learning than you would if you already knew how to draw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fellah.
    me again...
    well i have been a professional painter for five years now and i kinda understand if daddy tries to protect kylie. Only having to do art is so amazing cool, but sometimes its so fucking(sry, lack of a better word) hard to. It can really get you down - no money, only making crab, noone buys the shit etc etc, and then suddenly all is well again - people start to buy your stuff again, you paint some amazing pieces and for a while everything is smooth. And then it all starts again - no money, only making crab - but hey thats the good part really! Never knowing where you are, means you are everywhere
    i cant see why he would want to protect me when i want to do art because i love it.. not because i have to or want to get somewhere. sure if i get a job with my art, thats brilliant,, but i doubt i could handle it as i like to do whatever art pops in my head, i dont like doing art for people because i feel it lacks the touch in which i put in my own pictures. hard to explain :/

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Real or Fake?
    By LaPalida in forum Artist Lounge
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: June 5th, 2007, 07:54 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.