finished section movement - outdated- moved for storage.

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  1. #1
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    finished section movement

    looks like the mods have been organizing in the finished section. seeing their subjective work in this forum brought up a concern i had with people posting anything and everything they do in here. not all of your art is great or worth showing in this section. mine definitely isnt. keeping it as a showplace for more of our better work and less of the junk art drawer will make it much easier for people to browse works for quality imagery.

    if there is something you want to post...push on it a little bit harder with your efforts and creativity. the quality of the boards is up to us. not just the mods. i would prefer if they were able to teach rather than organize threads. I hope you all see it that way as well. post better works and have a better site to be inspired by and learn from. simple as that.


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  3. #2
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    So are we not allowed to post finished 3D art here anymore? Because my thread was moved. I figured finished work could be finished work in any medium. : /

    "Undermine their pompous authority, reject their moral standards, make anarchy and disorder your trademarks. Cause as much chaos and disruption as possible but don’t let them take you ALIVE"

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  4. #3
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    It was me.
    I did it becouse i agree with gasmask.
    I saw your wip and all - the FINAL piece needs more work - light, texture, model and even concept.
    I'll look forward the enhancement or the next one.
    Peace,

    Oblio

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  5. #4
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    I can see this being a touchy subject...how are we to know if our work is up to par?

    On the whole though, I agree with your intentions. Hopefully it's not a rough ride from here on in.

    [][][][] DRAW EVERYDAY [][][][]>
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  6. #5
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    While I agree most heartily, I think the majority of folks are the same ones who aren't going to read this post. If there were some way to post important news in a way that folks have to click "I've read this and this" prior to posting (you can't make them read, but you can make them click), it might go a lot farther to reducing some of the errant posts.

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  7. #6
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    the only problem i have is that its looks very annoying to have all the moved tags for like a day or what? isn´t there a way to make those threads dissapear immediately?

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  8. #7
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    there is...you can choose to move the thread entirely...but maybe some mods wanted to give a hint for the people who are searching for the certain thread...

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    I agree with it, even I have posted thread in Lounge about moved images.
    I was affect by one image wich is moved, and wich I found very good.
    So, I just want to say that mod's need to consider that taste's are different, and try to look at images obiective as they can.

    Also, maybe mod's can choose where to put unfitable pictures. Some could in WIP, some in Helpfull crit. some in Life drawing sub-forum.

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  10. #9
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    If you find one image that was abused and that deserves a comeback - post the link here along with a motivation (crit).

    We'll try to motivate our choice as often as we can. However please consider that it already takes a lot of time - especially now before E3 - to decide, move and comment.
    The line is really thin sometimes - there are still pieces that should be moved.
    Please see movement back to WIP or Helpful crit section a sort of feedback.
    Don't report your own piece!
    (don't post your own link! let others give the feedback)

    I hope the movement will make you discover other great areas of this site and with your help it will grow the quality of all our boards.
    Thank you.

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  11. #10
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    maybe you should make it like cgtalk... and make a finished section for everything and then have mods pull the good work into the "true good finished section"... ?

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    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=43421

    Ok, here is the link. I think that this image is good, even its no techniqualy perfect.

    Oblio - im realy dont think that moving is some kind of barresment, everybody have thers oppinion. But I think that helpfull crit. is for begginers who have basic problems with anatomy, perspective, light etc. and that some work qould be moved in WIP.

    thanks

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  13. #12
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    Moved to WIP.
    You gave a perfect example - the feedback that the piece received in the Helpfull Crit. section would never happen in the finnished area.
    I moved it there becouse it was flat on froms and depth (still needs work) messy (still needs work), not coherent in light and values, etc.
    You guys helped that image a lot and it's on it's way to become a good one - just not there yet.
    I'll ask other mods to take a crit at it too - in case i drunk too much again.

    edit - huge typos (what do you want i'm in a french hotel using a german keyboard = Europe )

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  14. #13
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    My humble opinion is that it is a bad thing to let only one man to decide what's bad and what's good. I saw this happen on an other forum and the result was really ugly.
    I think you should let the ppl choose if they like something or not.
    IMHO.

    CsakiP
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    I am all for what you guys are trying to do here, but the current system isn't working. there are lots of pieces being moved that aren't quite finished but they are worth looking at, while there are other pieces that stay because they look done but don't really have anything special going for them. It is way too much trouble to check all three threads and see what slipped though the cracks. I agree with krakel.
    maybe you should make it like cgtalk... and make a finished section for everything and then have mods pull the good work into the "true good finished section"... ?
    also you should adopt the thumbnail method that cgtalk uses. don't get me wrong they've got nothing on you, but as far as navigating finished work, CA.org is becoming more trouble than it's worth. Here is an example of one that I agree doesn't look quite finished but I am not going to search though all the wips to find gems like this. cgtalk does't have the same caliber of work but I don't have to sift through endless pieces and multiple sections to find the ones that interest me.


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  16. #15
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    The thumbnail thing was a good idea but the thing the thing that needs to be improved is the best of section. If the moderators could start updating it more often with a larger variety of pieces.

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  17. #16
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    Hi there, I agree with krakel I think ill be better to have a
    "CA people choise award" seccion or something of sorts, that
    way the desicion whether if the art is good or not will not
    be based on one person opinion, the artist could get better
    exposure and it would be easier to organize the forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by krakel
    maybe you should make it like cgtalk... and make a finished section for everything and then have mods pull the good work into the "true good finished section"... ?


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  18. #17
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    My personal opinion:

    let's split the existing 2 categories of Finished and Sketches into:

    1) Finished
    2) Roughs
    3) Sketches

    that way there's more of a recognizable hierarchy for art to move through. obviously don't go through and segregate now, but as new posts arrive they will start to organize their art more thoughtfully perhaps.

    just my opinion...do w/ it what you will mods

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  19. #18
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    Arrow

    would it be possible to change the name of the section from "Finished Works" to something like "Pro Level Work" or something a little less subjective? Just a suggestion. I am glad to see some re-arranging on behalf of the admins and mods here, maybe the Finished forums will be worth looking at now.

    [scott]

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  20. #19
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    Its up to the mods to decide what is considered good art/finished art..and what is unfinished or still needs work.

    It's also up to the artist posting to understand what is considered "finished". If you sketched something up in 30 minutes and you feel as though your completely done with working on the piece, I wouldnt post it in the finished section unless the level of quality was of a professional standard. Sometimes if you want to post a sketch, post it along with a truly professional quality finished piece of work.

    There are reasons that the wip section, sketch section, helpful crit section etc exists.. I believe the Finally finished section is really for a high level quality of professional work, meant more as a viewing gallery to check out all the great new work being done by artist in the field. I hate clicking on the first 10-15 threads in the finished section and finding maybe 2 pieces that really belong there.

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  21. #20
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    Just becouse i take the time to crit and answer around doesn't mean i do all the moving.
    As a matter of fact i was not the one who moved this but i agree with the movement. It is not a finished piece - its more like a speed painting.
    finished section movement - outdated- moved for storage.

    If you have just this in your portofolio i would just want to see more - but it won't get you hired.
    It is a beautifull piece and Canibalcandy has a lot of beautyfull art on his site.
    The movement was justified imho and i think it will make our boards grow in quality as you will find great work on each section.
    If you don't want to dig too much just browse the Best Of - wich is sort of the thread you sugested.
    Who cares where is a work placed as long as you can all see it and once you find it you ca RATE IT and others can see it too?
    It's up to you to guys. It's up to your crits and feedback - without that we will never be where we are.
    I hope you will take the effort and help us in having these boards becoming better and better. Add stars to the gems you find - it's a simple and effective thing.
    The thumbnail issue is on the menu for some time but it's not just a click away - as you know we are working on new technologies for the boards and we have much more in store for you.
    The sections are just some landmarks - they are not art grades!
    And the movement should always help.
    Love & Peace!!!!

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  22. #21
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    there is...you can choose to move the thread entirely
    by all means do it now!!!!!
    make an announcement and tell pll how they can find their own threads if they search for their posts.

    what you do is a good thing but now it only hurts the finally finished section!

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  23. #22
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    I think the best thing about this forum is that you can get c&c for your works from real professionals. Professionals don't really need crits on their works. After all they're the pros. They can give crits on other's works.

    I'm not a pro. I'm an IT engineer. I really need the crits to improve. If you don't let my finished work be posted here then I won't have the input to get better.

    I think if you really need the finished section to be restricted for pros then make a "pro finished" (actually a gallery since pros don't need crits ) and an "amateur finished" section.

    (My 2 cents.)

    CsakiP
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  24. #23
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    I get the idea, I just dont see how what you moved doesnt qualify for this section but stuff like this:
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44081
    does qualify. If weird acceptions are made for "more important" people it suddenly becomes difficult to determine what I should post here, as opposed to the "concept" section or whatever. Know what I mean?

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  25. #24
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    where's the art? all i see are stickies as far as the eye can see!


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  26. #25
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    here is the simple fact, those treads that are trully worthwile get visitors, and coments, and ratings. There is a lot of stuff being posted that the artist may feel is finished but is far from it. I agree that you'll never know how trully finished your work is until the rest of us rip it appart. And even professionals post images that get their share of critiques. most professionals are just as unsure of the quality of their work as the novices. All you people complaining have to learn how to take critisism. You are not god's gift to the art world. No one trully is. Ask Foster if he think's he's hot shit. He'll be the first to admit his faults.

    I was part of the people that felt i wasn't getting the credit i was due. But then i looked at my work with truth and i can honestly admit that a lot of the work i put up is not up to the standards that it needs to be. And a lot of you, if you look at your work with a fresh perspective will come to realize that.

    As far as Oblio is concerned, I trust the fact that he and other moderators know how to diferentiate between finished art anf unfinshed art. sure some bias may enter the equasion but that's like that everywhere in the art world. You all bitching about it is not gonna gain you the respect and feedback that you are looking for.


    The CGTalk-style award thing is a good idea. You have to submit your work for that. And i bet the moderators don't want to sift through a barage of submissions to pick out the best.




    as far as features - how do i go about moving a thread myself? I have a thread in the Sketches section that is essentialy a Sketchbook. I've been peritioning moderators to move it to the Sketchbook section for a while now



    oh, and the new features you guys are working on, I hope a spell check option is one of them. as you can see by my posts, spelling is not my strong suit.

    Oblio and the gang - keep up the good work. CA.org is my favorite of all the Forums i visit.

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  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanwh
    If weird acceptions are made for "more important" people...
    I thought that since he pays for all the site we can let him break a rule or two - but then Jason said "censored stuff - theory about good, evil, life, art, porn, art, business, art..." and there i go = It's moved.
    Isn't he a nice guy?

    just help me make it better, ok?
    Be sure to check the othe sections as it's good art allover the boardz - and give your feedback!
    "Till death do us art"

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  28. #27
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    Hi all. I'm sorry, but it seems I may have just added one mroe thing for you mods to move. I'm sorry. I just now saw, after reading through some posts, that there was a crit forum under the sketchbook forum.

    My thread, located here, would probably be better fit to go there.

    Sorry again for adding more work, and if I could have done it myself, I would have moved it.

    And when y'all move it, go ahead and delete the link to it to help fellow artists browse the forum, as I already know it will be moved.

    Thanks, and sorry again.

    My Sketchbook.

    I love color so why can't I use it right?
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  29. #28
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    It's kind of been said already, but I think it's really REALLY good practice for people to crit their own work before posting it. I see soooo many pieces that people post without ever critiquing it as much as THEY possibly can. And, be honest with yourself about the quality, because you're not doing yourself any favors by posting in a section that is "out of your league". When people expect to see a certain quality, and the image is far below that level, they tend to quickly move on. If it is good constructive crits you're after, don't post a half-finished piece in the finished section.

    I'm serious about the self crits. They are so important to your growth as an artist, and especially as a professional. You don't want to take a piece to your art director or client and say, "Hey! Here it is, what do you think? Other than these ten things that I know need fixing..." You'll look like a shmuck. Do it to the highest level you can, then bring it to the boards for crits, then when it's all nice and polished and done, ask yourself seriously if it will hold its own, all things considered, in the "Finally Finished" section. Believe me, if you do this, you'll grow so much in your understanding of your own methods and thought processes.

    And lastly, trust the mods. They're mods for a reason, slight biases or not. If a picture isn't finished, it isn't finished and therefore doesn't belong in the finished section. That's all I'll say now

    -Daniel

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  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuzion
    It's kind of been said already, but I think it's really REALLY good practice for people to crit their own work before posting it. I see soooo many pieces that people post without ever critiquing it as much as THEY possibly can. And, be honest with yourself about the quality, because you're not doing yourself any favors by posting in a section that is "out of your league". When people expect to see a certain quality, and the image is far below that level, they tend to quickly move on. If it is good constructive crits you're after, don't post a half-finished piece in the finished section.

    I'm serious about the self crits. They are so important to your growth as an artist, and especially as a professional. You don't want to take a piece to your art director or client and say, "Hey! Here it is, what do you think? Other than these ten things that I know need fixing..." You'll look like a shmuck. Do it to the highest level you can, then bring it to the boards for crits, then when it's all nice and polished and done, ask yourself seriously if it will hold its own, all things considered, in the "Finally Finished" section. Believe me, if you do this, you'll grow so much in your understanding of your own methods and thought processes.
    I think this should be the unspoken rule before posting in the finished section. Practice self critisism. ASk yourself: "Do i dare show this to an Art Director?" Not, "do i dare show this to an Art Director for a critique?" Art Directors don't have time to criticue your work. Concept Art and Illustration in general are commercial fields. And because of this, work has to be at a certain level to be successful. I've seen people at convetions argue with Art Directors and Editors about their work, and make all sorts of excuses, and complain about the review they got. These people are in the positions of Art Directors because they know what constitutes as a good illustration and the merits of illustrations that are also commercialy good. Sure, you may disagree with one of them from time to time, but that's usualy you bruised ego talking.

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  31. #30
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    I mainly draw using a pen/pencil. I do not typically do anything in color. When I post I almost always get a comment saying that my black and white ink drawings do not belong in the finished section. I seriously get the impression that only colored and/or rendered selections qualify as finished. As a result I have not post often...and I doubt that I'm the only one.

    Perhaps a better qualifier than "professional quality" would be in order. ...especially when many of us here are not professionals...and the work of many professional is not very impressive.

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