Perspective: Can you help?

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  1. #1
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    Perspective: Can you help?

    First i would like to say that i have a headache! *rubs temples* Anybody tries to tell me ever again that you can't exercise your brain, i'll tell them "why don't you go and learn about drawing a car in three point perspective and then we'll talk. I'll bring the camomille tea and the paracetemol!"

    *L*Anyway, i have a question about perspective. However, i tried to be considerate and searched this particular forum (i simply don't have the time to search the whole board, i am sorry if that is taking the easy way out) to see if i could find any threads that answered my question. I did not, so i am posting this. Considering that i noticed i am not the only one with questions about perspective, i tried to give it a title so that we can possibly make this the thread that every posts questions and answers about perspective. Who knows, maybe if it is informative enough the moderators might make it into one of thos 'sticky posts'. *S*

    I have had for quite a while something that is called a 'PERSPECTIVE PACK' from the DK ART SCHOOL (the publishers i think), with a book inside by RAY SMITH and a few tools which i have always thought were really cool. (i'll take this oportunity to say that i have no intention of making the book available over the net, nor even slightly making any copyright infringement, i just don't know how else to get help from you guys without posting the relevant pages, 4 out of a total of 72).

    I have been reading it to try and get my assignment done. the pages i was trying to undestand were these two (i have no idea if they are going to take long to load, please let me know if they do)

    I just cannot understand how the floor plan relates to the in-perspective drawing above it. In any of the images. The first image in the first page is especially maddening because i can see some construction lines that alude to how it was done but i just can't figure it out. The one thing that keeps flooring me is the fact that the grid line that represents the house's floors plan is not in-perspective. The lines are completely parallel; it is a square.

    And in the rest of the images the floor plan does not seem to relate accurately to the above in-perspective drawing, there always seems to be a corner that is longer than it looks like it should be (to my brain at least). And again there are some construction lines just teasing me.

    So at the moment until somebody thinks they can explain it to me i am looking at these two pages to see if i can draw the mansion that i came up with for my assignment.

    Thanks for looking.

    -PJ
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  3. #2
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    OK, I just started my perspective class, but hopefully I can help illuminate this. I apologize for the horrible quality of this picture but I just moved and my scanner computer has no net access...anyways.



    Here's a few exercises from my class. As you can see, we throw the plan view up top instead of the bottom, but the idea is the same. We're only going to talk about cubes here, and eventually you can extropolate that knowledge into more complex shapes, or add a side plan view. But for our purposes, cubes are nice because all sides are the same length. This is important, as you'll see in a minute.

    So, you start with your cube touching a top down view of the Picture Plane. You have a Horizon Line. And you have your Stationary Point (where the viewer is in relation to the top down picture plane.)

    The first thing you do is determine where in your picture your cube is going to rest (or float) and draw the line representing the point where the cube is touching that top down Picture Plane. This is why a cube is important, because the length of this line has to be accurate, and you can measure this one line (and this one line only) based on the length of any of the sides of the cube in the Plan View (This is called your True Line of Measure). So you draw this one line, the front most corner of the cube, and you draw it on a line exactly perpendicular to the point where the corner touches the Picture Plane in plan view. (You can see this in the examples above). Now you have the front corner of your cube in the drawing area.

    Next you need your vanishing points. To find these you need to do two things. First, take the angle of the forward two faces of the cube in plan view and match those from your Stationary Point. They're a little hard to see in my drawings, but they're the lines projecting away from the stationary point. You should be able to see the corrolation between those lines and the lines on the cube in Plan View up above. So, you take these lines and run them from the Stationary Point all the way back to your Picture Plane (my teacher likes calling this top down view of the Picture Plane the Picture Plan to avoid some confusion). Where those lines intersect the picture plan, drop perpendicular lines down to the horizon line. Voila, your 2 vanishing points.

    Now you can run lines from the top and bottom of that front corner to find the tops and bottoms of the cube. Now, you're probably wondering how we determine where the back corners/edges go? Well, draw lines from the corners in the Plan View down to the Stationary Point. Where these lines cross the Picture Plan, again drop perpendiculars down into the drawing. Where they cross your top and bottom edges are where those corners go.

    It's really confusing and hard to explain without actually drawing it out as a demonstration, but hopefully this, along with the much cleaner drawings in your book, will help connect some trains of thought and get you started. Good luck!

    P.S. If I have time, I'll try to write up a better tut. I'm just really busy this weekend with school and Mothers Day and all.

    Last edited by fukifino; May 6th, 2005 at 03:11 AM.
    "Every generation sees the past though the lens of its own time." - Thom Hartmann
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    The one thing that keeps flooring me is the fact that the grid line that represents the house's floors plan is not in-perspective. The lines are completely parallel; it is a square.
    Do you mean this grid:



    This is the blueprint of the house, an orthogonal top view, where all the parallel verticals are derived from and put in perspective. So don't worry about how it was drawn, because it wasn't drawn, it's the map of the house.

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  5. #4
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    Man you guys are sooo cool!

    I would just like to say that it never ceases to amaze me how generous people on this site are with their time and knowledge. Thanks to you fukifino and ngnorden for making these last two days coming to an awesome conclusion. I have spent quite a few hours reading those two pages and now i know what i could not figure out on my own, and that's pretty cool.*S*

    fukifino i actually drew the tutorial you wrote out and, man, wouldn't you know it, it all became clear. The lines and grid that ngnorden pointed out were projections from the station point and then perpendiculars to the horizon line therefore transposing what is in the floor plan into a 2point-perspective picture. This is so cool! *LOL* Oh my gosh, you'd think i won the lotery. haahhaha

    Anyway i am looking forward to getting down and doing some 2pp drawing of that afore mentioned mansion, and i shall show it to you guys first. *S* SO as you can see fukifino your efforts were spot on and you should be congratulated on a fine tutorial.

    thanks for your time once again, guys. I have another question and i'll post it soon. *S*

    -PJ
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    Very helpful post fukufino!
    Quote Originally Posted by fukifino
    So, you take these lines and run them from the Stationary Point all the way back to your Picture Plane (my teacher likes calling this top down view of the Picture Plane the Picture Plan to avoid some confusion). Where those lines intersect the picture plan, drop perpendicular lines down to the horizon line. Voila, your 2 vanishing points.
    interesting... well here's a noob question for ya. How do you determine the distance between the horizon and the start of the top down plane? It seems that if the distance was greater or less than it is now the vp would be moved further out or in and cause distortion. Is that true? hrmmm man I'm such a newb!

    N & B

    ~Sketches
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  7. #6
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    i`m a noob to and i do not no what to do

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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by one2hit
    Very helpful post fukufino!


    interesting... well here's a noob question for ya. How do you determine the distance between the horizon and the start of the top down plane? It seems that if the distance was greater or less than it is now the vp would be moved further out or in and cause distortion. Is that true? hrmmm man I'm such a newb!
    the horizon line is relatively irrelevant and arbitrary..the main thing that matters is how far your Stationary Point is from your Picture Plan/Plane. This determines how far away from the object you are. Obviously your drawing has to exist somehwere in between the SP and the PP. But beyond that, the relative angles of the cube are always going to be the same, so the lines you run from your Stationary Point out to the Picture plane will always fall on the same place of the Picture Plane no matter where you put your horizon line. And then since they drop vertically down, they always land on the same place.

    A misconception I had when I started my class was that any picture only has those 2 vanishing points. But that's wrong. Those 2 vanishing points are just for that object at that angle. Another object in the scene at a different angle will have it's own vanishing points (created by drawing lines relative to its angles from the Stationary Point out to the Picture Plane and then dropping them down to find out where they meet the Horizon Line).

    Since the vanishing points are determined by dropping a vertical line down from the picture plane to the horizon line, even if you slide the horizon line up and down in the picture, the VP's stay at the same point. Obviously if you didn't move your front edge of your cube the picture would look different, but this is the effect of changing your camera angle. Moving your horizon line alters the angle (high/low) that you are looking at the object.

    does that make any sense?

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  9. #8
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    I'll really try to do a step by step of this this weekend.

    "Every generation sees the past though the lens of its own time." - Thom Hartmann
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  10. #9
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    There is a step-by-step tutorial at CA that covers how you construct the VPs and when distortion occurs.
    I'm not sure if I completely understand the question. Sorry if the question isn't actually answered there.

    Assignment #4 - Perspective

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  11. #10
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    I don't usually like digging out old threads like this but I'm trying to find tutorials for advanced perspective: I understand how the vanishing points are located (in distance from the object) in 2 points perspective, but is there a way to determine how far the 3rd point would be in the case of 3 points perspective?

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  12. #11
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    i think the best perspesctive tutorials(tutorials period) are on www.fineart.sk . look for the loomis books

    puppy

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  13. #12
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    Wow thanks Bluepuppy, I knew about loomis' anatomy but never realised he did stuff about perspective too.

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  14. #13
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    Or just go to www.pinwire.com and register go to books sections and there you can find all loomis books.

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