The Dark Side...
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  1. #1
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    Unhappy The Dark Side...

    Have a look at this:



    The squares marked A and B are the same shade of grey... dont believe me? Go to the origional page this comes from HERE

    Anyone know how this applies to painting. and how I can stop my headache...?

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    I don't think it'd apply to painting at all. I mean, you'd paint a still life of that thing there based on how it looks, and if you're doing it really exactly, you'd get those shades of gray in there without realizing that they were the same, and you'd be right. I don't anyone else would notice it, either. It's mostly just a curiousity.

    But a freaking awesome curiousity.

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    No, it does apply - note how grey can look cool when against warm colours, but warm when against cool colours.

    That image is really freaky to look at, though.

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    Yeah, this has been on Emaums for FOREVER. It's still weird though.

    It works, I opened it in ps, and marqueed a little area of the top square.

    It's so weird how it looks like it's getting darker as you move it downward.

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    Specificaly, it applies to tone - how we see light and dark areas in both a painting and in real life.

    If you look, we precive "A" to be darker because it is surrounded by lighter colord squares, yet when those squares are darkened, in the case of "B", it appears lighter, but the tone hasn't changed.

    This is important, because the color is irrelevant, which is why it's in b/w. It could be any color and the tone would remain - it would still appear as a dark red or a light red for example in this set up.

    As a suggestion, try to doing some value sketches in four tones, lt. grey (almost white), med. grey, med. dark grey, and dark grey (almost black). Keep it simple and straight forward. As you sketch and block thing in, it will become clear why this illustration is important.

    go read the loomis books. this stuff is all in there It's great.

    Thanks for posting this sketchling!

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    of course it's important! it's everything in color theory.

    read Joseph Alber's "Interactions of Color". it's an old book, but it's still one of the best on color and light theory.



    the two brown squares on the cover are the same. don't believe it? neither did i at first. i bought a second copy of this book specifically so i could cut out the two squares and compare them side by side. it's ok, it's a cheap book and an important lesson.

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    I was just reading through Creative Illustration recently and think I have an idea of how this works, There is a portion in there where Loomis talks about how the intensity of the light will cause a shadow to contrast in a set relationship with the lit areas. The intensity of the light is determined by the separation of tones between light and shadow.

    So say you have a light that causes the contrast to be 1 tone. If the value of an object in the light is 1, then that same thing in the shadow would have a value of 2. If something else in the image had a value of 3, then in the shadowed area that object would have a value of 4. (If your value scale gets darker as you go higher in numbers)

    So whats going on in the picture is that A = the dark checker in the light, and B = the light checker in the shadow.. B is being dropped in tone and it just happens to match the value of A.

    Here's the page I'm talking about - http://www.fineart.sk/show.php?w=434

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prehistoric
    Joseph Alber's "Interactions of Color". it's an old book, but it's still one of the best on color and light theory.
    Interesting. I've been looking for books on exactly that subject and physique of colour. The example you posted is even more obvious on the Amazon.com "read inside" image. Thanks for the name dropping !

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    Talking

    hehe... this was a bit of a spark among matches. I agree ANYONE who has a good book about stuff like this... tell us!

    I have another interesting one... this is more on how the eye percieves colour and how it is represented digitally...

    First create a row of 100% saturated blocks of colour... The Value (brightness) and saturation are identical in all of the blocks according to the HSB (Hue, saturation, brightness) slider... as you can see when the blocks get more and more desaturated...



    BUT... if you take that image and convert it to greyscale... the result is different to de-saturating:



    So obviously somewhere along the line the algorithm for converting colours to black and white uses the chroma, hue or wavelength of the light (much the same thing right?) to effect the percieved value of the colour...

    Not sure how much use this might be but its interesting to think about... its always good to know how the paint works and for a lot of us the paint is pixels!

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    just an interesting note:

    i remember learning in a color theory class that the human eye can distinguish something like hundreds of more shades of green than any other color. scientists believe it's an evolutionary throwback to when we were all living in nature and had to know which plants were edible.

    has nothing to do with the rest of this thread. just thought you all might find it interesting.

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    No... I think it does. It makes sence that if we evolved from monkeys we'd be better adapted to seeing green...

    One thought though... What is it about the different wavelengths that makes the value change? Red is the longest wavelength... and violet the shortest.. or whatever... but then why does yellow and orange look lighter than red and blue and violet...? Eh

    Anyone know why?

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    actually, i think it's the other way around. red is the short wavelength, blue is long.

    but you're talking about subtractive vs. additive color mixing. mixing with paint is additive, so yellow + blue = green. subtractive color mixing is how stage lighting and projection tvs work. not too sure how it works but i know that it's different, something about cancelling out certain wavelengths.

    i think projection tvs have a green yellow and red light, or red blue and green, i can't remember but i know it's not the 3 primaries.

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    its confusing... CMYK is subtractive, RGB additive.

    red+green=yellow
    green+blue=blueish green
    blue+red=pink/magenta



    http://hypertextbook.com/physics/waves/color/

    the phenomenon in the first illusion is called Simultaneous Contrast, or the way colors interact when beside one another. Digital painting has made me more sensitive to it, somehow its more obvious in RGB than in paint.

    Last edited by H.Evans; March 16th, 2005 at 10:14 PM.
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    um... infra red is a long wavelength ... and ultra violet is a shorter, higher-energy wavelength. So violet would be a shorter wavelength than red... I assume so anyways. lemme check... Yep


    What I find interesting about painting digitally is that you really are 'painting with light'. Ill see if I can find any more interesting colour/tone digital oddities today.

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    Makes you wonder what the world would look like if our visual perceptual range would be wider.. Woah headache !

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    that was pretty interesting.

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    cool beans to you...my friend.
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