Destruction Of Black America
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    Destruction Of Black America

    Alright i started this peice with the intention of not changing the medium of usually use which was pencil/paper all the way. It is pretty mcuh time for me to change it up and really get visually creative and involved. So basically the 26 panel peice turned to about 8/9ish panels that are more deeper and tells the story/relates the msg i feel much better. I am incorperating the veiwer in this peice as well as 3-d items to a 2-d peice i intend on using metal,wires fence canvas paper cloth and much more lol The peice involves these topics/themes
    -self sabotage
    -victimology
    -seperatism
    -ant-intellectualism
    -ideal/present 'black america'
    here is a basic sketch of the one that is on my wall being worked/skethed there is the shorter one and the one i added to to include a black hawk and crew decending into the part that isn't dest. in black america.




    The only issue i have so far is the movement or lack of it lol...alright i have the left to right movement through the use of down wires and beams and all that in the rubble then i have the telephone pole going into the other side of the city and i put another pole to prevent the eye from going off the right side of the peice but i dunno what to do about getting the veiwer out of the right side city and back into the rubble any suggestion and what i could add or if the movement is good as is. I am thinking about moving the smoke more right and fade into the left oh yeah the peice is about 10ft x 3/4ish ft

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    crazy go nuts!

    im guessing this is onlly a study so far... right now the imagery reads as a war zone, not black america. maybe thats themetaphor your working for, this is interesting but not engaging yet

    how would you go about defining "black america? is the act of defining an act of aggressive power?

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    foot in mouth

    Last edited by Bennett; February 22nd, 2005 at 04:32 PM.
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    ahem...i wouldn't go that far(yet) bennet...i find it quite interesting to be honest...although it tells me nothing about the destruction of black america.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillartsympho
    crazy go nuts!

    im guessing this is onlly a study so far... right now the imagery reads as a war zone, not black america. maybe thats themetaphor your working for, this is interesting but not engaging yet

    how would you go about defining "black america? is the act of defining an act of aggressive power?
    well it is a war zone against the establishment/continued life of a sovereign black america which veiws anything different and outside of it as hostile. Prerry much isolation/separatism from the world...that is why the black hawk and it's crew will be composed of mirrors as well as the figure in the bottom left b/c the veiwer will see themselves...the world has so many thing to offer to the black community and it is time to invade the horrible wrong BA and reestablish the ideas and seeds of unity and equality and the main missions as described with the 'i have a dream' speech."I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood." As of now there is alot of hostility and grudges and reverse racsim to allow that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett
    WOW!!! Simply amazing, not since INSECT BATTLE have I encountered such a brilliant piece!
    nice one asshole.
    if you actually read it, its pretty clear he's planning out the composition and layout for a mixed media piece.

    interesting ideas Mercer, im curious to see how the piece pans out

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    Assholish comments deleted

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnifex
    ahem...i wouldn't go that far(yet) bennet...i find it quite interesting to be honest...although it tells me nothing about the destruction of black america.
    it is the destruction of a black america that has been created naturally...when a race is disparaged and disenfranchised for centuries and then abruptly given freedom, a ravaged racial self image makes victimology and separatism natural developments...the issue is why isn't it being fought against rather then accepted? This one peice is actually part of a series which addresses what are the vesions of black america and why do they vary...self sabotage-hurting ones advancements in life by holding onto 'destructive' ideas...destructive on the movement of unity and the table of brotherhood and all that. Where the attitude that a supreme defense or in some cases an offense it needed in order to protect against 'white' people who are naturally hostile towards them. There is alot more aswell but i guess for soem reason i didn't start at the 'beginning' with this peice pretty much a middle i think. So definitions and views of certain elements aren't shown in thir fullest form. The buildings are a physical form of the cults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wes9000
    nice one asshole.
    if you actually read it, its pretty clear he's planning out the composition and layout for a mixed media piece.

    interesting ideas Mercer, im curious to see how the piece pans out
    lol i didn't even realize that comment was in a sarcastic tone ah well ... yeah it is a basic and simple layout to a more complex peice. It isn't digital if that was what was taken from the sketch.

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    alright the buildings of this war zone or rather the aftermath will of course reflect the ones in the other peice where it defines both americas and what ideas/ways it holds.

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    i'd be curious to see how you intend to show the concepts you're dealing with in the painting. Right now it looks a bit like racist propaganda "this is black america, so keep americuh white!" I'm sure you'll pull it off, it'll just be interesting to see how it's done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isric
    i'd be curious to see how you intend to show the concepts you're dealing with in the painting. Right now it looks a bit like racist propaganda "this is black america, so keep americuh white!" I'm sure you'll pull it off, it'll just be interesting to see how it's done.
    no it isn't like that it has more to do with global influence then just 'white' people. That is the point, letting oneself be inspired and influenced by other people.It is more of an attack on separatist then it is on black people....and since most versions of 'black america' is of a sovereign state it only makes sense to not only tackle that mind set but the body of which it is carried with. I am not showing that 'black america' and black pride is wrong just the version which i think doesn't help anyone is wrong and pretty much self sabotage. The thing people should realize is that 'black america' has so many variations to what it is/was and should be....it isn't an attack on the black community or people or advocation that everyone should assimilate themselves.

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    So what your saying is that you feel things like parades for black pride are more of a segregation thing than they are an acceptance thing? I think I can see what you're getting at. Rather than having "Black America" and "White America" there should just be America, without caring what the colour of a person is. It's a good point, and sadly one which many people tend to miss

    Anyway, I dont really have much experience with this kind of work (although it does seem interesting), so I'll just wish you luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big-Dave
    So what your saying is that you feel things like parades for black pride are more of a segregation thing than they are an acceptance thing? I think I can see what you're getting at. Rather than having "Black America" and "White America" there should just be America, without caring what the colour of a person is. It's a good point, and sadly one which many people tend to miss

    Anyway, I dont really have much experience with this kind of work (although it does seem interesting), so I'll just wish you luck
    no not really parades. Like when people use reverse racism or blame everything as a complex plot from 'tha man' instead of taking their issues and problems by the horns and really working to fix them instead of laying the blame. For example although there was much to complain about in the 60's there was more action to fix things then there was people wallowing in their problems and conditons...and since they were under such extreme opposition and still started to change a country it makes no sense that in the present there are so many issues but not enough action from them. Pride of ones heritage and culture is a good thing but when it becomes more like 'us against them' that is when it gets out of hand. In a team you can still be the single unit and also be apart of a larger one. It is just alienates people or when people continue to draw the color line for instance to use a racist word that for centuries was clearly spoken by an oppressor and then to try to turn that word into a positive by giving it a new meaning then ontop of that disallowing anyone but a few groups from saying it is pretty much separation or a attempt to keep distance. America i guess is the main melting pot of the world and if everyone kept themselves isolated and blocked each other from being inspired and influenced there is bound to be conflicts and hostilities held toward people. Also people tend to say 'remember who you are' 'remember where you came from' not as motivation to work harder but to say underneath those words 'remember who your oppressors were' 'remember what they did' to sorta relate 'white' people to being oppressors,and hostile in order to have a very destructive attempt at unity between themselves. Where as i say that is all wrong and people can unify themselves without having to have an opposition. It is true that racism still exist but it is much smaller then it was in the 60's or before that,and i feel people are holding onto to that historys' negative more then holding onto the great leaders or the struggles. I just think that the 'table of brotherhood' mentioned should be filled,but to some that is an ideal world ...it would be like saying why don't people view themselves as humans over anything else? lol

    Last edited by Mercer; February 23rd, 2005 at 12:44 PM.
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    I have a question about washes. I want to use a selection of washes ink and acrylic. I have used watercolor washes before but how can i make a substance translucent to show the layers underneath while still affecting it with color without having a drippy potentially warped mess?
    Mary Shaw does excellent mixed media collages with washes. The type of washes is something that i am expriementing with.

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    I really love what you're doing right now, and I can't wait for it to be finished.

    Just a suggestion about the movement like you asked.

    You could try bringing in three or four diagonal lines ( in this direction "/") from the right side to the left. I really don't know what. You could incorporate the lines in the sky, or possibly add more poles. I don't know, but I think if you started from above the landed helicopter, and ended them below the flying plane, it could pull the viewers back to the rubble, and with the "U" shape from the rubble underneath the plane, it would circle the viewer back to the poles.

    Possible, I hope it's what you're looking for. Still an awesome idea.

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    yeah i see what you are saying. I could move the plane up a bit and add a trail of bombs like in this pic...
    and make that pole in the center more off center like leaning off of that fence. That way the wire from the right would go to the pole pointing left and to the plane and down on a slant / to the rubble

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    alright everything is done and proper. I did some practice pieces. I hate warp'ige it sucks so much. What i was thinking i should do for the actual peice is to mount it with strong spray adhesive to a wood panel or rther panels. Since it will be much more managable to mount them on 4 wood panels rather then a huge wood slate.Any suggestions concerning how to stop warping or comments or stories re welcome . Anyway the wood is good b/c i think i can actually use chainlink fense as oppose to making it of a ligt material b/c i was just going to use watercolor paper.
    -also any tips or suggestion for adhesive would be great too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercer
    no not really parades. Like when people use reverse racism
    buddy there is no such thing as reverse racism.
    racism is rascism no matter which race you refer to. wether it be a minority or majority it can still be racist.

    in saying reverse racism you are acually being racist yourself, trying to imply that there is only one type of racism ( whites over powering blacks )
    when that is utterly and extremely untrue, I speak from a lifetime of experiance. you need to correct your path of thought.

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    Golly... I sure would like an update on this..

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    It's an admirable goal. I'm very interested in what you're trying to say, however I'm concerned that you're not going to get your ideas across w/out a giant artist statement hanging alongside the piece. I'm not getting any sense of what you're talking about from the imagery thus far.

    Not to be harsh...but art should be in my view, about visuals, not long written statements, and the clues I'm getting from your piece here aren't telling me what you're wanting them to. I started thinking something about American Imperialism and the oppression of the Iraqi people when I looked at this - the oppression of Black Americans would never have entered my mind.

    The imagery is very muddled so far - overcomplicated perhaps, with all the clumsily drawn black line elements layered over the destroyed buildings. For me, all that is obscuring the message with an unnecessary multiplicity of symbols, rather than addressing it and I fear could only get worse with added 3D elements. Could the idea be expressed more succinctly perhaps? The symbolism simplified?

    I'm not sure the format and medium makes 100% sense. Why are you making the image so big? What's the reasoning behind that? The choice of size and mixed medium doesn't as yet seem essential to the piece beyond the fact that you thought to stretch yourself beyond your usual routine.

    Your project made me think of an artist you may or may not know of, who I think addresses these issues very eloquently and with similar layering of collage-like images and paint washes - Kerry James Marshall. Know him? Here's a link to some of his work, if you're interested. http://www.pbs.org/art21/artists/marshall/

    Admittedly, his work isn't so much concerned with the relativisation of everyone; it definitely addresses Black issues more directly but I think his work's really strong. Good luck to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMunchausen
    It's an admirable goal. I'm very interested in what you're trying to say, however I'm concerned that you're not going to get your ideas across w/out a giant artist statement hanging alongside the piece. I'm not getting any sense of what you're talking about from the imagery thus far.

    Not to be harsh...but art should be in my view, about visuals, not long written statements, and the clues I'm getting from your piece here aren't telling me what you're wanting them to. I started thinking something about American Imperialism and the oppression of the Iraqi people when I looked at this - the oppression of Black Americans would never have entered my mind.

    The imagery is very muddled so far - overcomplicated perhaps, with all the clumsily drawn black line elements layered over the destroyed buildings. For me, all that is obscuring the message with an unnecessary multiplicity of symbols, rather than addressing it and I fear could only get worse with added 3D elements. Could the idea be expressed more succinctly perhaps? The symbolism simplified?

    I'm not sure the format and medium makes 100% sense. Why are you making the image so big? What's the reasoning behind that? The choice of size and mixed medium doesn't as yet seem essential to the piece beyond the fact that you thought to stretch yourself beyond your usual routine.

    Your project made me think of an artist you may or may not know of, who I think addresses these issues very eloquently and with similar layering of collage-like images and paint washes - Kerry James Marshall. Know him? Here's a link to some of his work, if you're interested. http://www.pbs.org/art21/artists/marshall/

    Admittedly, his work isn't so much concerned with the relativisation of everyone; it definitely addresses Black issues more directly but I think his work's really strong. Good luck to you.
    indeed.I have seen some of marshall's work,there is also a woman that does silhouettes which are very simple but visually the theme is conveyed. It stresses the fact that the most complicated huge peice can be easily put in 2nd on the basis of visually conveying something without explaining anything. The 'sketches' i posted here do not represent any final draft ...i should have blogged it. My 1st sketches always seem a bit "!!" cause of all the ideas but as i work things in and out it is less "!!" and more..tackle-able?I think that is why i get comments which are based on a sloppy sketch...that was cut and pasted and will most likely represent 1/4 of what it is in later sketches.

    I want my peice to be able to tell itself in general visually.If the viewer is confused as to what it is,and does not want to read the statement then the goal is not met and the msg is lost.I do want to get out of my 'normal' routine and try different things just to try it. That is why i chose a big size aswell as involving many mediums. It will be mostly 'hit,miss,relaunch' but i needed to do something besides my still life studies.That is why right now my sketch book has focused more on symbols and the unity of the peice and how t relates to the theme and how easily. I think i understand about visually creating a peice vs making a peice that is weak unless backed with 8,000 pages worth of a breakdown.

    Also the peice is not really about the oppression of black people,it is connected though with what i want to say which is 'victimology,seperatism, and anti-intellectualism' will be destroyed or rather attacked by new thinkers and believers' It makes sense though art and the visual go hand and hand.I can have a strong viewpoint but besides in writing it cannot be conveyed,visually in the same strength. Def. enjoyed the view =)... I also checked out other artist who do not need to make a picture the size of the world in order to feel like their msg would be expressed more that way and/or focusing on the theme but more on visually. Any links to artist would be great not to copy from, just see how a thought can be told without words and within various styles and mediums.
    p/s computer sketches are never me fav. i luff me sketchbook too much to trade it up. And i guess it does seem like a little child did it but i just work in the "!!" till i get it all sorted out.

    Last edited by Mercer; April 6th, 2005 at 09:11 PM.
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    Wow. This guy is one dumb motherfucker.

    SSG27, Suckas!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronologic
    Wow. This guy is one dumb motherfucker.
    And this said by someone who revived a thread from 2005?

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