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Does anyone know why Moses has horns in the sculptures by Michelangelo and Sluter? Did I miss something in the Old Testament?
There was much rejoicing in the realm of the Harvest Gods when man created the beer, light could not penetrate.
When the early Christian scriptures were translated and spread by word of mouth, Moses was said to have had horns. It was originally supposed to mean to send out rays, as in rays of light. But, it was confused with the Hebrew word for thrust out horns or something. I don't know how you screw up making someone look like a saint or satan :evilbat:
Where's Mulder when you need him !
that was funny egerie
xjmaschox is right.
What brick through yonder window breaks... ?
Wow. Very interesting... I wonder if Mike Mignola was inspired by any of these statues to make Hellboy... hehe.
hes right, the word that was mistranslated was basicly the word for aura or light coming from the head, it was a wrong translation of the word. but hey horns are fun huh.
Looks to me like he broke the two tablets containing the ten commandments, on his head. OUCH
Last edited by Glenn K; March 29th, 2003 at 12:05 AM.
lol crazy. devilish
So unfortunate! I think that they should make casts of them and then remove the horns on a copy, so we can see moses as a human. It is so distrackeding. I wonder if they didn't think it was just a little odd to have horns!
That's really interesting. I hadn't noticed them before, guess that says something about how much attention I paid in art history class.
Maybe also, since he was pre christ they thought it would be appropreate for him to look kinda pagan ish. or something.
Michael Angelo was likely working basis Latin biblical translations from the Greek.Originally posted by ozan
Maybe also, since he was pre Christ they thought it would be appropriate for him to look kinda pagan ish. or something.
During the Mediaeval period, from about 1000 ad to perhaps late 14th century (following the Black Plague of 1348), and afterward, the bible and many manuscripts weres copied over and over by monks who changed a great deal of the original wording, adapting them to meet the teachings and philosophy of "the Church," or biases.
The Gospels of Mathew were particularly ravaged. Some really interesting changes.
There has been discussion that suggests that the word was not translated by mistake but to reinforce the character of Moses as a Jew.
Throughout the middle ages and afterward, Jews were believed to have tails and horns. These stories were supported by the fact that men always wore hats and women head coverings etc.
It’s an interesting theory but its just that, a theory. As noted, the words "rays of light" were apparently similar to the word "horns" in the original texts one of many changes resulted.
Last edited by Justme; April 30th, 2004 at 02:26 PM.
Please, I hope you are joking! This is ridiculous!Originally posted by Justme
There has been some discussion amongst historians that suggests that the word was not translated by mistake but to reinforce the character of Moses as a Jew.
Throughout the middle ages and afterward, Jews were believed to have tails and horns . These stories were supported by the fact that men always wore hats and women head coverings etc.
Why was moses the only jew he put horns on? It is obviously simply the mistranslation. Was Jesus painted w/ horns? He was a jew. Was Adam? Was Aberham? Were any of the prophets?
And about translating the Bible according to local bias, that's absurd, it took years, and most of the public couldn't read latin anyway.
About Moses being Paganish, Moses was an icon of Christ, an 'symbol' of him. These types of Christ are all through out the O.T. Biblically speaking, Jews are simply Christians before Christ. They looked forward, We look Back.
You are reacting to a historical comment based on personal religiosity. You may be losing perspective on the issue discussed.Originally posted by stejahen
Please, I hope you are joking! This is ridiculous!
Why was moses the only jew he put horns on? It is obviously simply the mistranslation. Was Jesus painted w/ horns? He was a jew. Was Adam? Was Aberham? Were any of the prophets? ...About Moses being Paganish, Moses was an icon of Christ, an 'symbol' of him. These types of Christ are all through out the O.T. Biblically speaking, Jews are simply Christians before Christ. They looked forward, We look Back.
"Moses as an icon of Christ" is a thought that could certainly be argued by a great many theologians and seems like a fundamentalist conception that might offend a great many people. I doubt that Jewish people would agree with you and they wouldn't be alone.
The old testament is the basis of both the Koran as well as the new testament - although the contrasts and contradictions between all three make the connection tenable.
Christianity was more affected by Roman religious traditions and certainly Christian holydays and pagan holidays are strangely shared.
However, we should leave these types of arguments to those inclined to religious debate. This is an art history forum. I am more interested in art and in history.
Latin by the way, was the legal language of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. While peasants were illiterate, educated nobles, and the clergy, as well as scholars wrote and spoke Latin.
All legal documents and laws were written in Latin. In general the peasants learned from the pulpit through memorization.
Scholars read the biblical translations and scholars were educated at religious schools in which all was taught in Latin. The evolution of universities during the 12th century Renaissance were outcgrowths of these schools. All taught in Latin.
It is a historical fact that monks who translated bibles and manuscripts, changed passages to meet the requirements of the Church. There are many evolutions of the bible and the stories do change to meet the needs of an evolving society.
I did not use the word Pagan associated with Moses. That was another post that I responded to.
That is not an appropriate term since Pagan religion tends to represent non-Jewish and pre-Christian faiths, although these have been more recently revived.
Paganism covers a great deal of spiritual territory. How one perceives Paganism is dependent on whether they are observing intellectually or from a more rigid religious perspective.
Again this is an art history forum and an interesting point was raised regarding a major work of art. A point that could only be discussed basis religious commentary since the character was a religious figure.
Historians have suggested that the translation may have been affected by antisemetism which was rampant during the period. A period which included the inquisition and the death of thousands of Jews.
I ended with the statement that the words are in fact similar and were likely to have have been mistranslated. However, that doesn't mean that historians have not considered alternatives.
There is no religous debate in my post.
Last edited by Justme; April 30th, 2004 at 02:29 PM.
In Hebrew (much like arabic) vowels are implied. They are occasionally indicated by dots below the consonants, but not in the case of the Torah. As a result, it is difficult to distinguish between the Hebrew word for horns (keren) and rays of light (karan). I understand that some biblical scolars maintain that "horns" is the more correct interpretation. In Jerome's translation to Latin, he chose the word for horns (carnutam in Latin). It is widely believed that this mistranslation is the CAUSE of the general belief that Jews had horns, rather than an EFFECT.
And yet, oddly enough, when you compare something like the King James Version (orig. translated from latin to english) to the ancient manuscripts found by archaelogists, you get a relatively unchanged book. My two cents.It is a historical fact that monks who translated bibles and manuscripts, changed passages to meet the requirements of the Church. There are many evolutions of the bible and the stories do change to meet the needs of an evolving society.
I think dshill summed up the moses w/horns issue most accurately and concisely. Simple mistranslation of similar words.
or the pagan symbol for fertility and sexual health HAHA
maybe moses was a hot piece o' man flesh
dshill is right, thats exactly what i learned. why would the church accept a moses with horns unless they thought it was right?
moses with horns looks kinda scary hehe
esp the first image
I think the first one looks damned cool, anyway. Very Hellboy
Maybe it is used as a symbol of the lamb? As in we are lambs and Christ is the shepard, so Moses would have been the greatest lamb ever...