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Thread: Not to start this debate all over again, *but*...

  1. #1
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    Not to start this debate all over again, *but*...

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/

    The thing that amazes me, and this is just an observation - not an attack, is that the creationists seem to be very insecure about their position. So much so that they have, in essence, become apologists for their beliefs, drapping them in the trappings of science in a futile effort to make them palatable to acadamia while attempting to discredit the actual scientific process.

    Anyway, that's *all* I'm going to post on the matter.

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  3. #2
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    is it any surprise that they're/we're insecure about it? The universe getting created in 7 days, and a woman formed from a rib isn't exactly something that's easily verified as truth.
    Apologetics trying to bridge the gap between what they 'know' and what they 'understand'...it's a healthy thing to do...no bad can come from it.

    Scientific process itself is incredibly easy to discredit...but what science has discovered is not.
    For most religious people there's no refuting the truth of their experience eventhough they don't understand it in terms that science recognizes.
    It's really easy to be insecure about something that isn't explained.
    Believers and non-believers alike are insecure with creation. Creationists just stick with it regardless of their insecurity....and I don't think that's silly at all....we aren't limited by our understanding.
    There's more to truth and the universe than science has discovered...scientists will be the first to admit that(cuz if it weren't true, they'd be out of a job! haha)

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoUseFrAName
    is it any surprise that they're/we're insecure about it? The universe getting created in 7 days, and a woman formed from a rib isn't exactly something that's easily verified as truth.
    Certainly. I still believe it with no evidence whatsoever to back it up. I just think that there is insufficient evidence to prove the Big Bang theory and the Theory of Evolution to be more likely to be right then my Creationism. Not interested in a debate here, sorry.

    Oh, 'twas 6 days, by the way.

    EDIT: Oh, wow, that sounded insecure... heh. The reason I'm not interested in a debate is that I've already done this a ton in online debate, taking the null position each time. Just not interested enough in the issue anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ Bennighof
    Certainly. I still believe it with no evidence whatsoever to back it up. I just think that there is insufficient evidence to prove the Big Bang theory and the Theory of Evolution to be more likely to be right then my Creationism. Not interested in a debate here, sorry.

    Oh, 'twas 6 days, by the way.

    EDIT: Oh, wow, that sounded insecure... heh. The reason I'm not interested in a debate is that I've already done this a ton in online debate, taking the null position each time. Just not interested enough in the issue anymore.

    umm there is however more evidence for evolution for instance, then there is for a creationist view of how we were created, from a athiest or agnostic standpoint its far easier to accept that we evolved from single cellular organisms the evidence for it is quite clear. Also if you so amazing un interested why did you post?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Rook
    umm there is however more evidence for evolution for instance, then there is for a creationist view of how we were created, from a athiest or agnostic standpoint its far easier to accept that we evolved from single cellular organisms the evidence for it is quite clear. Also if you so amazing un interested why did you post?
    If something is easier to accept, it is automatically true? There is no conclusive proof for evolution. I therefore consider my beliefs to be equally valid.

    And I posted so I could opine on the issue. Why else would I post?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoUseFrAName
    Scientific process itself is incredibly easy to discredit...
    Can you explain what you mean by this, please? I'm wondering what your reasoning is. Or perhaps I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at.

    emily
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    Why couldnt Eve be made by a rib, if Milla Jojovic was made from an alien glove?


    Well, im not touching this one with a 12 foot pole.
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    I just wanna point out that there's more evidence explaining evoluton than there is gravity. Just let that sink in for a minute. How much evidence for creatonism? One book that people wrote. Kind of a difference there...
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    Quote Originally Posted by theincredibleandy
    I just wanna point out that there's more evidence explaining evoluton than there is gravity. Just let that sink in for a minute.
    I keep saying I won't get involved and then I can't resist...

    I let it sink in, and I've come to the conclusion that it's bull. You are comparing:

    Gravity as phenomenon

    Evolution as phenomenon

    And you statement on the status of these phenomena:

    Gravity: Not explained

    Evolution: Having more evidence to support it than Gravity

    You are full of crap, my friend. The explanation of how Gravity works would be analagous to an explanation of what exactly drives a biological organism to conintue lving and adapting through Evolution. The problem is as follows:

    Gravity: patently a real phenomenon, one that is defined by mathematical laws of physics and mere observation. You drop a book on the floor...bam, you just proved that Gravity exists.

    Evolution: So gradual that it cannot be observed. You cannot test evolution in a laboratory setting. Like, throw a bunch of chemicals together and see if life comes out. Even if it does, it only proves that life can be made in controlled laboratory conditions. This is far from taking that life and watching it develop itself into, say, a moose. It would take billions of years. So you can't test it, and you can't prove that it works at all. There is evidence to suggest that it might work, but that's all.

    So if your evolution-has-more-evidence-than-gravity theory is correct, Gravity is a vague an unobservable force. We are all floating around in a space station somewhere, closed off from the outside universe and affected by forces of gravity so slight that it would take the finest mathemeatical calculations to detect it. Since we cannot make these calculations, we must go by what appears to be the case. You hold still in an open room and you start to descend...*scribblescribblescribble*...but then you begin to move in another direction...the presence of motion at all suggests some possibility of gravity...I'll call it the Theory of Gravity. Not much going for it, but it's something to fend off those religious nuts who think that we're just being used as a rhetorical device by some kid with glasses named "Bennighof"...

    But last time I checked, gravity had been proven to be present. Explained, far from it, but evolution has yet to be proven to be present at all.
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    Can you explain what you mean by this, please? I'm wondering what your reasoning is. Or perhaps I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at.

    emily
    well, first there's Heisenberg's uncertainty principle....whereby the act of observing influences that which is being observed....so there's no experiment that can be perfectly replicated for any observer as the circumstances of any experiment are changed by the observer himself.
    Like in the second episode of the tv show Numb3rs, Charlie says that "to measure an electron one has to make contact with it in some way, and to do so is to influence the behavior of the electron'.

    and then there's all the ridiculousness that we covered in the other thread how science cannot exist without assumption. There's no way of knowing that our senses aren't lying to us.

    Science works nevertheless...eventhough there's flaw to it's process.

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  12. #11
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    and evolution is proveable...it can be observed in bacteria and viruses and many such things.
    That doesn't necessarily conflict with creation in any way though.

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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoUseFrAName
    well, first there's Heisenberg's uncertainty principle....whereby the act of observing influences that which is being observed....so there's no experiment that can be perfectly replicated for any observer as the circumstances of any experiment are changed by the observer himself.
    I was under impression that this principle has to do with being unable to detect electron's location in an atomic cloud when given it's energy, and vice versa.
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