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Thread: Screw the Press

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Screw the Press

    My friend in Iraq sent me this. ABC broke this story, or should I say fucking skewed it.


    Something I thought you all would like to read. This Marine is currently in
    Fallujah.

    Semper Fi,
    MSgt Downing
    MALS-16 FWD
    Aviation Supply Chief



    This is one story of many that people normally don't hear, and one that
    everyone does.
    This is just one most don't hear:
    A young Marine and his cover man cautiously enter a room just recently
    filled with insurgents armed with Ak-47's and RPG's. There are three dead,
    another wailing in pain. The insurgent can be heard saying, "Mister,
    mister! Diktoor, diktoor(doctor)!" He is badly wounded, lying in a pool of
    his own blood. The Marine and his cover man slowly walk toward the injured
    man, scanning to make sure no enemies come from behind. In a split second,
    the pressure in the room greatly exceeds that of the outside, and the
    concussion seems to be felt before the blast is heard. Marines outside
    rush to the room, and look in horror as the dust gradually settles. The
    result is a room filled with the barely recognizable remains of the
    deceased, caused by an insurgent setting off several pounds of explosives.
    The Marines' remains are gathered by teary eyed comrades, brothers in
    arms, and shipped home in a box. The families can only mourn over a casket
    and! a picture of their loved one, a life cut short by someone who hid
    behind a white flag. But no one hears these stories, except those who have
    lived to carry remains of a friend, and the families who loved the dead.
    No one hears this, so no one cares.
    This is the story everyone hears:
    A young Marine and his fire team cautiously enter a room just recently
    filled with insurgents armed with AK-47's and RPG's. There are three dead,
    another wailing in pain. The insurgent can be heard saying, "Mister,
    mister! Diktoor, diktoor(doctor)!" He is badly wounded. Suddenly, he pulls
    from under his bloody clothes a grenade, without the pin. The explosion
    rocks the room, killing one Marine, wounding the others. The young Marine
    catches shrapnel in the face. The next day, same Marine, same type of
    situation, a different story. The young Marine and his cover man enter a
    room with two wounded insurgents. One lies on the floor in puddle of
    blood, another against the wall. A reporter and his camera survey the
    wreckage inside, and in the background can be heard the voice of a Marine,
    "He's moving, he's moving!"
    The pop of a rifle is heard, and the insurgent against the wall is now
    dead. Minutes, hours later, the scene is aired on national television, and
    the Marine is being held for committing a war crime. Unlawful killing. And
    now, another Marine has the possibility of being burned at the stake for
    protecting the life of his brethren. His family now wrings their hands in
    grief, tears streaming down their face. Brother, should I have been in
    your boots, I too would have done the same. For those of you who don't
    know, we Marines, Band of Brothers, Jarheads, Leathernecks, etc., do not
    fight because we think it is right, or think it is wrong. We are here for
    the man to our left, and the man to our right. We choose to give our lives
    so that the man or woman next to us can go home and see their husbands,
    wives, children, friends and families.
    For those of you who sit on your couches in front of your television, and
    choose to condemn this man's actions, I have but one thing to say to you.
    Get out of you recliner, lace up my boots, pick up a rifle, leave your
    family behind and join me. See what I've seen, walk where I have walked.
    To those of you who support us, my sincerest gratitude. You keep us alive.
    I am a Marine currently doing his second tour in Iraq. These are my
    opinions and mine alone.
    They do not represent those of the Marine Corps or of the US military, or
    any other.

    Sincerely, LCPL Schmidt USMC
    "If one advances confidently in the direction of
    his dreams, and endeavors to live the life he
    has imagined, he will meet with a success
    unexpected in common hours."
    - H.D. Thoreau


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  3. #2
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    yeah thats war. i also had friends that told me things the news doesnt, also they seemed to have different views than things the news would tell us.
    Nathan Campbells 3 steps to drawing like a pro, 1. Sketch 2. shade. 3. highlights and ur done

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    yeah, but our forces are still bound by the geneva convention to treat medically any wounded enemy soldiers. it must be harsh in battle situations, but there has to be rules so we can take the moral high ground - we are the good guys they are the bad guys.
    Last edited by peterhurman; November 20th, 2004 at 06:48 AM.

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    I support him by wanting him brought home, alive, away from that hell.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

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    i understand they have to be super cautious and all.. but shooting a bleeding man who cries for help before you even know if he's armed or not just isnt right.
    That makes it seem ok to shoot anyone who lies in the street.. just because it went horribly wrong once doesnt mean everyone has dynamite strapped around his chest.
    That's just as bad as decapetating people if forreign troops won't back off.

    war sucks

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    I didn`t read the whole story
    sorry i`m lame
    But I saw some footage of soldiers walking in a room and just shooting a "terrorist" whil he was lying on the ground unarmed

    It was on the news here in holland

    Very weak..

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    Quote Originally Posted by oven g love
    yeah, but our forces are still bound by the geneva convention to treat medically any wounded enemy soldiers. it must be harsh in battle situations, but there has to be rules so we can take the moral high ground - we are the good guys they are the bad guys.
    why should the geneva conventions apply to these extremists? They wear no uniforms, pay allegiance to no country, and fight by no rules of war.

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    Dutch bad ass...read the story.

    If some asshole wants to hide behind the white flag, only to sabotage the enemy, then I'm sorry, but he's ruining any hope of surrender for other insurgents who are truly wounded and would rather surrender. I say, if you cant put your arms in the air to surrender, your suspicious, and only becuase other insurgents/ terroists are pulling off these desperate tactics then they just created a new set of rules and they deserve to be shot.

    The first casualty in war is the truth.
    "If one advances confidently in the direction of
    his dreams, and endeavors to live the life he
    has imagined, he will meet with a success
    unexpected in common hours."
    - H.D. Thoreau

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    Quote Originally Posted by benzo
    why should the geneva conventions apply to these extremists? They wear no uniforms, pay allegiance to no country, and fight by no rules of war.
    because when you lower your standards, the boundaries of what is acceptable can slip. remember the prisoners being abused,and the stuff that happened to civilians in vietnam.

    you cant justify our troops committing war crimes just because they do

  11. #10
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    We have just as much reason to come down on other threats but, we are conveniently in Iraq...


    I really can't wait until we get out of there...


    Peace,
    -JtJ
    Last edited by JoshuaTheJames; November 20th, 2004 at 10:51 PM.

  12. #11
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    those abstract set of morals are what seperate people like ghandi and mother teresa from people like saddam hussain and hitler.

  13. #12
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    Isn't "Unlawfull killing" an oxymoron on a battlefield? Seriously, WTF is "unlawfull killing?" Is there such a thing as "lawfull killing" on a battlefield? Give me a break.

    War is war, and when the gloves come off, anything goes. So screw the Geneva conventions. That's not Law, it's only a vague set of standards that are only attempting to set examples.

    What a joke. Lets take out our genva convention hand book in the miidle of fighting Falluja. That soldier did NOTHING wrong. Should we send in a bomb-squad everytime we come upon a wounded insurgent? ?
    Last edited by otis; November 20th, 2004 at 04:01 PM.
    "If one advances confidently in the direction of
    his dreams, and endeavors to live the life he
    has imagined, he will meet with a success
    unexpected in common hours."
    - H.D. Thoreau

  14. #13
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    out of curiosity, why don't any names appear on all of the other online versions of this email, yet they are on this version?
    "Nous sommes desoles que notre president soit un idiot. Nous n’avons pas vote pour lui."

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by seb
    out of curiosity, why don't any names appear on all of the other online versions of this email, yet they are on this version?
    What do you mean? I got this email from my friend who is Iraq right now.
    "If one advances confidently in the direction of
    his dreams, and endeavors to live the life he
    has imagined, he will meet with a success
    unexpected in common hours."
    - H.D. Thoreau

  16. #15
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    http://www.nationalreview.com/thecor...ive.asp#046190

    http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=A+y...web-t&toggle=1

    actually the odd thing is that although you can find the exact text of the email on several blogs and conservative news sites, you cant find reference to a site that first posted the email.
    "Nous sommes desoles que notre president soit un idiot. Nous n’avons pas vote pour lui."

  17. #16
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    agreed otis.

    According to the Geneva Convention rules, the insurgents in Iraq are not enemy soldiers, they are spies, and they can be shot on the spot.

    This article sums up this thread's argument:

    http://www.townhall.com/columnists/j...20040616.shtml

  18. #17
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    hahah quoting townhall is almost as bad as quoting freerepublic or me quoting michael moore or dailykos.
    "Nous sommes desoles que notre president soit un idiot. Nous n’avons pas vote pour lui."

  19. #18
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    Otis- Give it up. This "lounge" is filled to the max with...

    never mind. I seriously am lacking in my desire to participate in these forums simply because of the overwhelming Liberal understanding and love...

    Most of you... quite frankly... make me sick.

    Preach on as long as you can Otis. It's a losing battle...

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalecracker
    It's a losing battle...

    Hehe. ::Headbutts stalecracker and runs off into the sunset::

  21. #20
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    Seriously.

    Seems America really is Divided.


    -JtJ

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by seb
    hahah quoting townhall is almost as bad as quoting freerepublic or me quoting michael moore or dailykos.
    Obviously the article is from a conservative view, but I think it makes some very strong points which I don't think you can make a legitimate argument against, so you just downplay the article seb.... typical....

    stalecracker's right, enough of this.

  23. #22
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    i can talk about the article if you really want me to, however i doubt it would be either constructive or change anyone's point of view, so it leaves open the option to question quoting of articles that preach to the choir. obviously by living in los angeles, i am one of the bmw m3 driving, starbucks latte drinking, culturally elite liberal types that populate the blue states and thus would agree with views as discussed on dailykos et al. now if i ended up quoting said blog, although it makes perfect and good sense to me, it would possibly make little or no logical sense to you. this meaning even if i make seemingly valid points against said article, they most likely will fall on deaf ears.
    "Nous sommes desoles que notre president soit un idiot. Nous n’avons pas vote pour lui."

  24. #23
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    Ooh! Ooooh! Northeastern, black wearing, agnostic, pinko, urban elitist here!
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by otis
    What a joke. Lets take out our genva convention hand book in the miidle of fighting Falluja. That soldier did NOTHING wrong. Should we send in a bomb-squad everytime we come upon a wounded insurgent? ?
    Ahh sure hell, why not. I got one better, let's get one of those bomb defusing robots and run it around with everyone. It would be an army of bomb defusing cyborgs then, that would be awesome.

    Personally, I would have shot the insurgent. I'm not going to get into the moral and political aspect of this entire discussion, but if there is a history of wounded enemy insurgents surrendering under a white flag only to blow themselves up when soldiers approach, I wouldn't want the same fate only to appease someone back at home, considering most people, it seems, tend to find faults regardless of the action taken. The only action, from what I've been witnessing, that garners positive reaction is when a US soldier dies, and I personally find that more appalling than anything.

    I want my soldiers, those who are braver than I am, to come home alive, not in pieces in a wooden box.

  26. #25
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    The media should keep out of war. If I ran the military, media people would be fair game. Bad shit happens in war, sometimes POWs get abused. If they are really POWs, why's that so bad? They would do much worse if they had our guys held. I'm not for the killing of innocents, but this war is different from wars we've fought in the past. These people hide behind civies then blow themselves up. It's so fucking stupid.

  27. #26
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    I feel the contrary. The media should be kept in the war but journalists should stop reporting in ways to boost viewership, but to bring out the truthful situations. Unfortunately the story of the 2 marines blown up by the enemy wouldn't make headline news as much as their brother in arms who shot someone who was down.

    Hanging the Marine for shooting a wounded insurgent is of course unbelieveable. I wouldn't say he shouldn't be brought under investigation. There has to be one and it will eventually find him not guilty.

    Being under fire in combat is stressful....its totally different from what one can expect. I was never under fire, but when I was undergoing training in the army, we were briefed on case studies of combat stress incidents and a lot of things can happen.

    If the world demands action, I can't blame them.....but just a note, when police officers engage criminals in a shootout and in the event kills the criminal only to discover the fella's gun was fake, would he get away with it? Who could tell whether the criminal's gun was real or fake in that situation where being slower by a splitsecond can cost a few lives?

    Same situation with the Marine. He was taking no chances.....bad PR it may be, but if he acted under directives then he's okay.



    Its unfortunate.....but the first casualty of war is truth.
    ********************************
    There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and THE TRUTH.

  28. #27
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    its pretty easy for us to sit here and debate the morality of soldiers killing insurgents from the safety of our computer chair.

  29. #28
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    I was in the U.S. Army infantry for three years and still have 2 years of inactive time left so I could still be called back up. What people tend to forget is that everyone in the military volunteered to join. If you enlisted not thinking you could end up like that marine then you're a naive fool. That marine should not be punished because I would do the same thing, but at the same time he should know the politics of the military and should not be surprised if he is punished. The problem with the military is that they are expected to be peace keepers and killers. You cant have it both ways

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetpack42
    its pretty easy for us to sit here and debate the morality of soldiers killing insurgents from the safety of our computer chair.

    dude, you hit it right there, first and foremost our opinion in this situation DOES NOT MATTER, we're not there, we weren't there, and it seems like most of you won't be there(i don't plan to go and fight for the military anytime soon, do you?)


    i am liberal for the most part, but i would have shot the guy too, who the fuck cares what others think really, in that situation w/ the given history of others being blown apart i would've made sure the lives of those around me and my life were secure, and that's what that guy did. honestly that journalist needs to be smacked b/c if he thinks it was the wrong thing to do and made them not shoot the guys, we wouldn't be seeing that video most likely, and that journalist would be a pile of scrap in a box on it's way to the US.



    The media should keep out of war.
    well seeing as how the media was created to keep track of war and warfare, it's not likely though i admit many journalists and workers in the media tend to interfere, and skew stories to suit ratings

    basically a lot of people are feeding off the "screw war" idea, (and i admit war brings nothing good to those who participate in it), so the media can take the situation into its hands to skew stories to make people see the total negative of all situations, which is what they did this time around. though killing a wounded man who was still alive was a violation of the geneva convention, those men were looking out for their lives, and that's what matters

    frankly, i don't understand war, and i'm pretty sure not many, if any, of you do either(if you were in battle then this is not intended for you) so don't make blatant accusations or justifications for a situation you were not in, once again our opinions mean shit, plain and simple, we weren't there, it wasn't our life at stake.

    i'm liberal, but i support that guy(so fuck off conservatives who think that liberals can't cope w/ life threatening situations!)




    and this may be off topic but : i don't support the reasons for entering Iraq, but all in all we ended the reign of a dictator(not that we don't have our own political problems in this coutry) and helped many people get on their feet, all in all i support the ongoing effort (so long as it is not for some underlying reason that may be really greedy and shady).
    here's my view on the war: i support it b/c situations like this:
    Screw the Press
    iraqi soldiers giving toys to kids in a refugee station

    this made my day, if this whole situation can make it so people in their own country can help others in need, then it was worth the problems

    not only that but that kid is so happy, that just says it all

  31. #30
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    speaking for myself, I am not willing to die for the geneva convention.

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