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  1. #1
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    Pfft like evolution is a crock of sh..t know what im saying

    HAHAHA For all of you who want the proof of God and to solidly disprove the theory of evolution look no further

    Evidence Bible


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  3. #2
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    Way to make people more ignorant...should be the name of the book...

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    Eeew...

    what ever happened to faith, huh? Everyone's so cynical nowadays

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    Faith is one thing..

    ..systems of rigid, fundamentalist doctrine that blatently ignore both enlightenment and modern observational thinking along with the natural sciences are another.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLC
    Eeew...
    what ever happened to faith, huh? Everyone's so cynical nowadays
    Faith has no place in science. That way lies ruin.
    Real Men use Metal Type.

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    Creationisms proof is one line:

    "You can't prove God DOESN'T exist."



    What a way to prove things. I could say I believe in my god "Zazuma" who created this world and you can't prove that Zazuma doesn't exist.

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    If you believe into creationism and all that it entails and is related to, fine.. keep those doctrines out of public policy.. thats our position.

    And no one is saying God doesn't exist. The world and universe are full of too much beauty and wonder to eliminate the possibility of a greater being, weather that being is a super natural force, an alien intellegence, or something other. We simply contest that the bible and its teachings, as well as all other "holy" writings be taken with a grain of salt, maybe not literally. If you truely believe that the earth was created in 6 days, that being 6 full global rotations, then I'm sorry, I can't buy that, there is too much substantial evidence to contradict that notion, at least when it is taken in a literal sense.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

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    Great. American-fundamentalist found yet another way to alientate themselves from rational thought. As a Christian, it pisses me off to no end to see this. It's hilarious to see them try desperately to fit (hopelessly distorted) "evidense" to a strict literal ENGLISH interpretation of the old testament that's thousands of years old. I guess what makes me the most angry is how paranoid this school of thought (if you can even call it that) is and how it exists only to surpress scientific reasoning.
    Last edited by N D Hill; November 16th, 2004 at 01:55 PM.

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    Anyone who's interested can pick up some Erich Fromm who equates the story of the expulsion from the Garden of Eden to the gaining of sentience by human beings, forever separating them from the blissful ignorance of the animal kingdom.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?

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    basically, it takes faith to believe in god, it takes faith to believe in evolution. science cannot prove, nor disprove god, because he is not a physical entity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thePenguin
    basically, it takes faith to believe in god, it takes faith to believe in evolution. science cannot prove, nor disprove god, because he is not a physical entity.
    I think what you meant to say is: ...it takes faith to believe in god, it doesn't take faith to believe in evolution, just look at the evidence of it all around us.
    Real Men use Metal Type.

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    no, i said what i meant. saying look around us proves no more for evolution than it does for god than it does for the native americans beliefs on where everything came from. actually on the flipside, ppl could say look around at the order in the universe and say that its proof of intelligent design (creationism) rather than pure chance (evolution). technically, the scientific process doesnt lend a lot to either evolution or god, because a BIG part of it is observing, recording, and repeating the processes. and since gods not really observable, recordable, or repeatable and no one was really around to observe and record the big bang and i dare say no one has repeated it so as to record it in the name of science it seems odd to try and use science for either explaination.
    Last edited by thePenguin; November 9th, 2004 at 02:12 AM.

  14. #13
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    Creationisms proof is one line:

    "You can't prove God DOESN'T exist."



    What a way to prove things. I could say I believe in my god "Zazuma" who created this world and you can't prove that Zazuma doesn't exist.
    I totally agree. You CANT prove a negative. It's the most retarded tactic in an argument. You can say anything you want and the person will never prove you wrong. (ie. "prove to me that there are no orange flying pigs, the winged variety")


    I got a joke for you Penguin. You might have heard of it ...

    "The Babel fish is small, yellow, leechlike, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centers of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.

    Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the NONexistence of God.

    The argument goes like this:

    `I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'

    `But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'

    `Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

    `Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next pedestrian crossing.

    Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book, "Well, That about Wraps It Up for God."

    Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation"


    now replace babel fish with intelligent life ... because it couldn't have evolved on its own...

  15. #14
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    basically, it takes faith to believe in god, it takes faith to believe in evolution. science cannot prove, nor disprove god, because he is not a physical entity.
    If it takes faith to believe in evolution/science then I pick science over God any day. They can keep their voodoo dolls and crosses and I'll keep my computer, transportation, mechanics, chemistry, physics, astronomy, biology, should I go on?

  16. #15
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by LaPalida
    If it takes faith to believe in evolution/science then I pick science over God any day. They can keep their voodoo dolls and crosses and I'll keep my computer, transportation, mechanics, chemistry, physics, astronomy, biology, should I go on?
    I second that notion.

    [scott]

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    I have a theory: everyone's right.

    According to biblical historians and stuff, the universe was created roughly 3-5000 years ago.
    According to Big Bang theorists and evolutionists and whatnot, the universe is billions of years old.

    To argue against the theory that 6 days could have been relative to some other massive unit of time like a millenia or whatever, I must ask why God would have us believe that the time was much shorter. Being that the story is told for humans, I would assume that the descriptions would be relative to humans.
    Plus, time doesn't move in a line. Without movement, we couldn't observe time. All time and possibility already exists in one short instant. The only thing that really moves is consciousness.(this would be how God can both know the future AND give us free will)

    ...anyways, Thinking of the story of Adam & Eve and Eden and all that, Adam was created a Man. Not a boy, not a foetus.
    All men today weren't created that way though. Every man in the world today has a history as a child.
    Adam was created with a history. God is like a good concept artist...everything he creates has a deep backstory.

    Sooo, getting to my theory:
    Evolution, Dinosaurs, The Big Bang, Triassic period, Jurrassic period, all those things are a part of the multi billion year backstory that God created with the universe some 3 to 5 thousand years ago. That backstory is still totally relevant to where we are today as a species, and creationism is no less valid.

    6 days for an all powerful being is nothing. All it takes is will. God probably could have created the whole thing in a split second...but that wasn't God's will, so God didn't.
    It doesn't make much sense to me to put limits on the abilities of the thing that makes ability possible.

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  18. #17
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    oh, and uhh, just because it takes faith to believe in God AND to believe science, doesn't mean you have to choose one. Ultimately, if God exists, science is a product of his will upon the universe.

    As a wise sage once said: Life is the constant surprise that I even exist.

    Everything takes a bit of faith.

    -Rob
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    Encouragement keeps me swimming , even in the undertow of disappointment.

  19. #18
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    technically, the scientific process doesnt lend a lot to either evolution or god, because a BIG part of it is observing, recording, and repeating the processes. and since gods not really observable, recordable, or repeatable and no one was really around to observe and record the big bang and i dare say no one has repeated it so as to record it in the name of science it seems odd to try and use science for either explaination.
    The thing is that science actually has facts to back up it's theories while belief in God uses faith. The Big Bang theory actually HAS proof to back itself up. It is still a theory but it's a hell of a lot better than some book telling me that God made this world. The reason that science is so successful with intelligent people is that it's repeatable. Every experiment you make can be reproduced exactly which makes people confident because it's reliable. When people say that they got visited by angels or had a "vision" that revealed something to them it is exclusive to only those people (usually messiahs or the clergy etc) which they then pass on to us.

    The theory of Evolution doesn't depend on the Big Bang theory if that's what you are trying to say. For defense of evolution... the proof is all around you. The fossils/bones, carbon dating, animals/humans around you, human history, adaptation, homeostasis, etc.

    We're observing and recording the effects of the Big Bang everyday (the best example is the background radiation that's present right now everywhere in the universe). It's true that it's still just a theory but then again that's the only thing we have so far that's closest to the truth of what actually happened. Until someone comes up with a better theory that includes everything that the Big Bang explains and more then that's the day that theory will be regarded as the one closest to the original truth.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_blur
    I think what you meant to say is: ...it takes faith to believe in god, it doesn't take faith to believe in evolution, just look at the evidence of it all around us.
    I've never seen anything evolve. Furthermore, I have yet to read about, see a picture of, or a video of something evolving. With the gigantic amount of creatures on the planet, and people as we know them having "evolved" 10-15 thousand years ago...why isn't everything constantly evolving? Animals aren't evolving to urbanization, they're becoming extinct. I don't want proof in the form of some weird bone, thats the same as digging up a piece of a tree from Noah's ark, I want to SEE the evolution. Your "evidence" takes just as much faith as anybody else's point of view. Who says everyone has to agree with you, anyway? This topic is entirely subjective.

    Yes, radical "in your face" Christians are rude and annoying, but so is anybody else radically, uncompromisingly "in your face" about most anything else.

    Both boil down to personal opinions.

    I don't have to believe in evolution if I don't want to, and nobody has to believe in evolution or creation if they want to.

    Was this supposed to be a discussion? or a "clever jab" at Christians?

    In either respect it fails.

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    6 days for an all powerful being is nothing. All it takes is will. God probably could have created the whole thing in a split second...but that wasn't God's will, so God didn't.

    hehe I got a joke for this one

    --This dude asks God, "So how long is one million years to you?" and God answers "About one second". Then the dude asks, "So how much is one million dollars to you?" and God answers "Bout one cent". The dude thinks it over and then asks God "So can I have one cent?" and God answers "Sure just a sec".--

    ...anyways, Thinking of the story of Adam & Eve and Eden and all that, Adam was created a Man. Not a boy, not a foetus.
    Sucks to be a woman huh?

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    lol @ the joke.

    Sucks to be a woman huh?
    why's that?

    -Rob
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    Encouragement keeps me swimming , even in the undertow of disappointment.

  23. #22
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    Was this supposed to be a discussion? or a "clever jab" at Christians?
    I c you're smart enough to see my troll

    Sucks to be a woman huh?
    She isn't created in God's image

  24. #23
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    I've never seen anything evolve. Furthermore, I have yet to read about, see a picture of, or a video of something evolving. With the gigantic amount of creatures on the planet, and people as we know them having "evolved" 10-15 thousand years ago...why isn't everything constantly evolving? Animals aren't evolving to urbanization, they're becoming extinct. I don't want proof in the form of some weird bone, thats the same as digging up a piece of a tree from Noah's ark, I want to SEE the evolution. Your "evidence" takes just as much faith as anybody else's point of view. Who says everyone has to agree with you, anyway? This topic is entirely subjective.
    OMG Jet seriously man. You're making me doubt the effect of education. Pls pls pls read some books. I cannot stress this enough. You almost make me want to cry with your ignorance. I'm sorry I really don't like to insult people on forums (sometimes they make me angry that's true) and I don't want to insult you but for the love of all that is good get informed before you post.

  25. #24
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    so you're saying there is half lizard bird fishes that breathe smog outside my window?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetpack42
    I've never seen anything evolve.
    That may have something to do with the fact that it's a VERY slow process Mr. Pack.

    Furthermore, I have yet to read about, see a picture of, or a video of something evolving. With the gigantic amount of creatures on the planet, and people as we know them having "evolved" 10-15 thousand years ago...
    Well, this is factually incorrect the oldest hominid (our closest ancestors) fossil we've found is as old as 1.8 million years old. (see: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...lduvaijaw.html)

    why isn't everything constantly evolving? Animals aren't evolving to urbanization
    Of course they're evolving to deal with us:

    "5. Are humans influencing the process of evolution?
    Most scientists would agree unequivocally that humans have greatly affected the process of evolution, from the rise of antibiotic and pesticide resistance to the largely human-caused increase in the extinction rate. Our effect on the process of evolution even extends to our own species' evolution. Technology and culture have protected us to a great extent from the selective pressures that drive evolution, allowing many people -- especially those in developed nations who, without medical intervention, would not live to reproductive age -- to pass their genes on to the next generation. Other scientists note that technology and culture have changed but not eliminated the role of natural selection on our species. We now adapt to crowding, pollution, and new disease rather than the necessity to escape from large predators. Humans will change in the future, but are unlikely to evolve into a new, separate species because no human group is truly isolated anymore, given our transportation systems. Without genetic isolation, there is no further opportunity for speciation among humans."

    These things aren't hard to find...I googled that in about one third of a second. (From: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/li...faq/cat03.html)

    they're becoming extinct. I don't want proof in the form of some weird bone, thats the same as digging up a piece of a tree from Noah's ark, I want to SEE the evolution. Your "evidence" takes just as much faith as anybody else's point of view. Who says everyone has to agree with you, anyway? This topic is entirely subjective.
    No, evolution is only subjective to the people who would like to push their own creationist agenda, but not to anyone who digs just below the surface. There is TONS of info on evolution that basically puts it way above the shadow of a doubt.

    Yes, radical "in your face" Christians are rude and annoying, but so is anybody else radically, uncompromisingly "in your face" about most anything else.
    Yes, but I only find dumb Christians annoying because of the whole faith bit. They believe without calling into question, which is unacceptable to me. I believe we should question everything. It is the only way to find truth.

    Both boil down to personal opinions.
    No they don't. Christianity doesn't depend on the scientific method. Evolution does. That's why creationists would get laughed out off the stage at any self respecting paleontology, paleobotany or paleoichtiology (sp?) conference. They have no place there. "God made it" is a phrase that sounds like an ignorant cop-out because that's exactly what it is.

    I don't have to believe in evolution if I don't want to, and nobody has to believe in evolution or creation if they want to.
    You don't have to believe in gravity either, why don't you jump off your balcony and see if it really exists... =p

    Was this supposed to be a discussion? or a "clever jab" at Christians?
    It's a catalyst to a deeper discussion about the issue. You may be in over your head =)

    In either respect it fails.
    I disAGREE -- (aku)

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  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetpack42
    so you're saying there is half lizard bird fishes that breathe smog outside my window?
    "In terms of weed plant pests, gene flow can cause genetically engineered plants to pass on their herbicide resistance to weed relatives. Gene flow can occur when a plant pollinates a relative plant or weed and confers its genes to another plant. This could lead to the evolution of "super weeds" capable of invading and overcoming ecosystems."

    Googled in about .7 seconds.

    This is real, observable evolution. Same thing with pesticide-resistant insects. Same thing with anti-biotic resistant bacteria and viruses (not very up to speed on virology so if my definition of anti-biotic is wrong I apologize in advance, but my point stands). Don't pretend your ignorance is proof that whatever you're hiding your head in the sand about doesn't exist...
    Real Men use Metal Type.

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    so you're saying there is half lizard bird fishes that breathe smog outside my window?
    No I said books ... not comic books ... sheesh

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    correct me if I'm wrong, I was under the understanding that this was the "scientific method".

    "What distinguishes a scientific theory from a non-scientific theory is that a scientific theory must be refutable in principle; a set of circumstances must potentially exist such that if observed it would logically prove the theory wrong.

    Here is a simplified version of the logic of the scientific method: we begin the encounter with nature by making observations and then through some creative process a hypothesis is generated about how some process of nature works. On the basis of this hypothesis, an experiment is logically deduced that will result in a set of particular observations that should occur, under particular conditions, if the hypothesis true. If those particular observations do not occur, then we are faced with several possibilities: our hypothesis needs to be revised, the experiment was carried out incorrectly, or the analysis of the results from that experiment was in error.

    The actual process often involves a great deal of insight and creativity. Keep in mind, though, that this interpretive process may have biased the outcome or conclusions. This point will be addressed later. For now, simply note that without a disconfirmation being possible in principle, a belief is not acceptable as even a potential scientific hypothesis. There must be a possible concrete test. "

    googled from here http://www.astronomynotes.com/scimethd/s2.htm

    Digging up a couple bones and looking at a couple stars doesn't prove the big bang or evolution. Last I checked, you needed a test which could be repeatedly successful, which, neither of those theories have.

    again, both beliefs take faith, and you're welcome to place yours in whichever you choose.

    Also, there are other forums you kids can go to if you want to insult/bicker with people or attempt to prove your intellectual superiority. That's not what this place is about.

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    yeah, I'm with Jetpack. Unless you can watch the evolution there's no proof.

    Which is not to say I don't believe in evolution, because I do(they even taught it to us in Catholic elementary school!).
    It certainly takes less faith than believing in God does. But faith nevertheless.
    Neither possibility is illogical so they're hard to dismiss.

    it's only illogical when we limit ourselves to our incomplete understandings of things.

    And Eve is as much in God's image as Adam was...both a reflection of the universe around them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_blur
    "In terms of weed plant pests, gene flow can cause genetically engineered plants to pass on their herbicide resistance to weed relatives. Gene flow can occur when a plant pollinates a relative plant or weed and confers its genes to another plant. This could lead to the evolution of "super weeds" capable of invading and overcoming ecosystems."

    Googled in about .7 seconds.

    This is real, observable evolution. Same thing with pesticide-resistant insects. Same thing with anti-biotic resistant bacteria and viruses (not very up to speed on virology so if my definition of anti-biotic is wrong I apologize in advance, but my point stands). Don't pretend your ignorance is proof that whatever you're hiding your head in the sand about doesn't exist...

    so, let me see if I understand.

    plants passing DNA = proof that fish can turn into humans?

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