Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Concept Artist VS Illustrator - What to expect?

    Follow-up to my other topic.

    I'm looking at the possibilities when it comes to getting into a field of art that suits me. I'm 21, from The Netherlands, and have the chance to go t o a school for international business to gain marketing & other business skills and to have something more to fall back on, both in regards to having a net to catch me in case I need it, and to be able to market my art or truly treat it like a business, eventually (since the family I come from isn't quite wealthy - closer to being on the opposite end of the spectrum - and I do have my share of fears in regards to that and would be happy if I could find a way to do well for myself)
    but I do realize that that would take away years, and that it'll be hard work and many hours I could've spent on art (I've been drawing *a lot* since I began to take drawing seriously halfway through last year),
    a lot of time I could've spent practicing my drawing skills and whatnot, the things I feel are truly my passion, would then have to go into a business degree. (My idea was to do this on the side)
    But I also realize that it'd be quite a risk for me, eprsonally, and I keep swinging back and forth from "Yes, I'll do it" and "Maybe I should consider this more carefully...", so here I am, looking for as many answers as I possibly can find. I don't know exactly what to expect. I have a general idea, but some parts of the puzzle are missing and perhaps there's a different option for me. I'm open to all advice and shared experiences.

    I'd like to know what to expect from illustration and concept art, and the differences between those when it comes to different parts of the entertainment industry (movies, games),
    and just how hard it is to really get into the position(s) of doing epic artwork, and what it takes. I truly believe that I can get on the level of the competition, as I would be willing to put in the many-hours-a-day required for it. But I want a better, broader picture of things here, as to not underestimate things. What alternatives to doing illustration-like artwork are there? Freelancing seems like a big leap into the ocean,
    but it may be possible. Still, I'd like to know what to expect. I can definitely give it my all and I do have the whatever-it-takes-mentality, but right now, and for the past few days, I've been pondering and researching and figuring stuff out.
    I've been trying to, at least. I know it takes very hard work, and a part of me is fearful of getting stuck in a position I don't want to be in for a long period of time, whether professionally or financially, even after many hundreds of hours of hard work. I've always wanted to do well for myself and not end up in the same situation as my parents. Any advice or experiences I could learn from would be greatly appreciated. In the other topic, I've been given some other ideas such as looking into getting into galleries, which is something I would like to do, though I've yet to find an avenue that is open to digital artwork. (Digital painting is what I want to get into, soon)

    On a side-note, here's a Quora post I've come across, and it came across as rather... overwhelming. What do you guys think of the statements given here?

    https://www.quora.com/If-I-want-a-ca...r-even-college
    Last edited by Xulion; April 1st, 2018 at 10:43 AM.


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,474
    Thanks
    3,143
    Thanked 6,544 Times in 2,756 Posts
    Art degrees don't usually pay for themselves in this current market. The average for full-time work for an artist in games or movies in the US is 42k a year for the first couple of years (animators are an exception and get about 20% more). Most people burn out in five years and leave those industries. Illustration work is mostly freelance and working freelance pros make around the same or less. Only a very small percentage are getting more than 50k a year. Compare that to the 40k a mediocre art school degree will cost you. A top school like RISD is almost 70k a year for a degree. At that rate, you would be in your fifties before you pay off your school loans. I don't know what it's like in the rest of the world but I doubt its much different since the same industries are smaller there. Only your portfolio matters, and if the school doesn't give you that the rest is worthless. Only top schools have good networking programs for graduates. Most schools are nothing more than Ponzi schemes turning out mediocre students and placing them in low-paying or nonpaying jobs.

    You can develop your own IP and try and market it online but that is what everyone is doing. very few people can turn that into a comfortable living. Again it will depend on the quality and your speed, the more you can produce the better chance you will have of reaching a larger client base.

    Galleries aren't interested in digital because digital has no intrinsic value, there is no original. Anything you sell is always just a copy. If you want to go into galleries you need to work in traditional mediums. Most galleries take 50% of the retail price. You would be responsible to frame and ship your work to the gallery. The gallery should pay for advertising and shipping to clients and return shipping of unsold work. Prints can't be sold in a great enough quantity to pay for all the costs associated with a gallery model. If you insist on working digitally then online print shops are the best way to go, places like InPrnt or Fine Art America.


    I can't stress enough how important quality work and speed are for any art career. With concept art, production art, and illustration, you are basically working for other people, visualizing their ideas and creating images to support the sale of the final product. In gallery work or online sales, your work IS the final product. Not everyone is cut out for every type of situation you need to figure out what best suits your personality and go for that.

    Most of the people I know working professionally teach at University level, they don't really make their living as artists from the sale of their artwork, or they have spouses or partners with fulltime jobs with benefits, something to consider also.
    Last edited by dpaint; April 1st, 2018 at 01:41 PM.

  4. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    360
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 128 Times in 101 Posts
    I think if you are asking for stability and predictability then the safest answer is no. The field seems to rewards those who are smart enough to navigate through the minefield of art knowledge and have an inhuman work ethic.

    I have been in a small art hangout community for about a year and a half. I have seen a guy made it big ( at least by artists standard), a few young people getting into the industry at the age of 19,...etc so it's not like artists are doomed to die or anything. But I have seen more people struggling and some are destined to fail from my perspective so I don't think there's any guarantee when it comes to art.

    I mean the possibility of success is always there but that's all I can say. I would also advise not to confuse passion with " something I find more fun than doing other things ", learning art properly is not that fun.
    Last edited by GPhong; April 1st, 2018 at 10:37 PM.
    People keep telling me : " Why do you keep suggesting courses and books instead of just giving me the solution directly ? "

    Well if i could condense all the necessary informations that take hours of explanation and demonstration into a single post, i would gladly do it

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Thank you for your response.

    From what I have gathered thus far, it seems that art school is not the way for me to go, and that I'd be better off continuing my art studies through the much more affordable online routes (including one I've been learning from since July, New Masters Academy) and that I might be better off considering having something as a safety net, perhaps something grounded in the business world. Art and creating is my passion, but unfortunately I know the struggles of a low income family all too well (having come from one myself) and that is one of the reasons I'm considering finding a way to gain a source of income through which I can begin to save up and gather experience in another field, potentially marketing, so that I can simultaneously transfer those skills into a business (or something of that ilk) of my own for my artwork, perhaps as a freelance illustrator, in that case, so I'll have some things to fall back on while still practicing and making my own art daily. It does seem to be a tough industry to get into, and it's still a dream I want to chase, but putting all my eggs into this basket will make me feel like I'm jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.
    I'm more than willing to dedicate myself to my art as much as I can, but I'll have to find something else that's in demand that I can use to build up my financial safety net & experience within that field. If I don't, I might end up in a retail job or something else I wouldn't be able to stand. Still going to consider things and think things through, but indeed, art school will likely bury my feet into the ground. I want the connections, but I'll figure that out online & through conventions, and wherever else I can or might be able to.

    As for galleries, I'll look into that as well - though I don't know if I'll be working in traditional mediums when it comes to painting and such, so I'll take a good look at it.

    Not everyone is cut out for every type of situation you need to figure out what best suits your personality and go for that.
    What would you say might be the best way to figure this out properly?

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by GPhong View Post
    I think if you are asking for stability and predictability then the safest answer is no. The field seems to rewards those who are smart enough to navigate through the minefield of art knowledge and have an inhuman work ethic.

    I have been in a small art hangout community for about a year and a half. I have seen a guy made it big ( at least by artists standard), a few young people getting into the industry at the age of 19,...etc so it's not like artists are doomed to die or anything. But I have seen more people struggling and some are destined to fail from my perspective so I don't think there's any guarantee when it comes to art.

    I mean the possibility of success is always there but that's all I can say. I would also advise not to confuse passion with " something I find more fun than doing other things ", learning art properly is not that fun.
    Stability and predictability... as much as I'd like to shove those aside and go for it, having something to fall back on in my situation might be preferred.

    In any case, I really do view this as my passion. Creating art, at least, and shaping worlds and characters and stories through that art. It could be done through drawing or painting, or even writing, and it would relate to my passion.
    Though I've always leaned much more towards making things come to life in a visual manner. But indeed, learning art properly isn't nearly as fun as creating the art itself, though I've still been doing it over the past months since I know that's what I have to do to get good, eventually.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,474
    Thanks
    3,143
    Thanked 6,544 Times in 2,756 Posts
    What I did was work at other jobs and work on my art in the off time. I started getting professional assignments and eventually landed a fulltime art job but it took me 15 years to do it that way. I I knew I wanted to be an artist so it was just a matter of getting good enough to support myself and I also knew I didn't want a family or any responsibilities that would keep me from being one. Set up your life with your priorities as you see them. I made sure I could pay my bills and kept my lifestyle without distractions, most people can't or won't do that and never get where they want to be.

    In my experience, the hardest thing for people to do is what they really want to do. They let money or love or someone else's expectations stop them from achieving their goals. Like I said not everyone is cut out for it.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    128
    Thanks
    75
    Thanked 70 Times in 50 Posts
    What Dpaint said is pretty much true. You need to realise what your priorities are in life, often what you fear the most is what you want to do. If you have some bucks try Steven Pressfield's book "the war or art", it talks about procrastination (he calls it resistance), and some parts relate to fear/love of art/craft.
    Ultimately if someone succedes or not depends only on himself, if a person blames his circumstances and pursue any path half-heartedly he will only be mediocre at best.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to All For This Useful Post:


  12. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,785
    Thanks
    292
    Thanked 526 Times in 439 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Most of the people I know working professionally teach at University level, they don't really make their living as artists from the sale of their artwork, or they have spouses or partners with fulltime jobs with benefits, something to consider also.
    Will teaching at University level require degree???

  13. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,474
    Thanks
    3,143
    Thanked 6,544 Times in 2,756 Posts
    In the US it depends on the state you are living in and the position you are teaching. A teaching degree helps you land a teaching job, but teaching at colleges is slowly becoming a part-time job. Like every other employer, colleges are keeping people part-time so they don't have to pay them well or provide benefits, so even this won't be a solution for artists in a few more years here in America. Welcome to the global gig economy

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:


  15. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Posts
    2,152
    Thanks
    249
    Thanked 937 Times in 555 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    What I did was work at other jobs and work on my art in the off time.
    This is a good strategy, and having a supportive spouse who works a normal job helps, too. If possible spend more time on art than on your "day job", but if that isn't financially feasible, what are you going to do, paint all day but starve?

    People have to know what it is they're getting themselves into. Industry professionals who run youtube channels often don't see this perspective and repeat mantras like "just work hard at it and you'll get there"- not wrong per se, but they are sometimes blinded by their own talent. They sat down to study and a year later, they got indsutry jobs. Doesn't happen for the majority of people, who will usually take much, much longer to reach proficiency, and as the overall quality of work rises it's getting harder and harder to break into the industry (compare concept art from the late 90s to artstation today, the overall quality in the 90s won't get you hired even by indie devs today).

    There's not much more to say about this. Get as good as you can in your fundamentals and if you aim to break into the entertainment industry (games, film etc.), learn 3D as early as possible. No use if you can paint nice still lifes but have no idea how to blockmesh, kitbash and render because you'll take two weeks for an image someone using 3D assets will whip up in a day or two.

    e/ the amount of typos in this, sweet jeeebus.
    Last edited by Benedikt; April 8th, 2018 at 06:04 AM.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Benedikt For This Useful Post:


  17. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    5,474
    Thanks
    3,143
    Thanked 6,544 Times in 2,756 Posts
    You can also work at non-art jobs save money, quit, and paint uninterrupted for however long your money lasts get another non-art job and start the process over again. I did plenty of that too, it just depends on your personality and work ethic. Some people find just focusing on art works better than splitting their time between a job and working on art at night or just weekends.

  18. #12
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    360
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 128 Times in 101 Posts
    One thing that bugs me is that rarely anyone ever talk about finding local art job in the game industry or working in other art position in the game industry that are easier to get into in order to . I work in a pretty much unknown studio in a third world country and life is pretty damn good . I get some practice at work , decent steady pay to keep the bill at bay so won't work on shitty freelance , able to organize at least 4 extra hours of practcing at home while learning another language . I know some other people from different part s of the globe in a similar situation.

    It seems to me that most aspiring artists can't even comprehend the existence of non-triple A companies and positions that are not 3d artist and concept artists .It's a shame, for there are more than working in Ubisoft or working as a cashier

    Job posting for reference :
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...htmlview#gid=0
    People keep telling me : " Why do you keep suggesting courses and books instead of just giving me the solution directly ? "

    Well if i could condense all the necessary informations that take hours of explanation and demonstration into a single post, i would gladly do it

  19. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Posts
    2,152
    Thanks
    249
    Thanked 937 Times in 555 Posts

  20. #14
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    360
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 128 Times in 101 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Benedikt View Post
    Reference for what? The overwhelming majority of those jobs are for 3D-Artists.
    Well there are positions that are in much higher demands that do involve skills that can be apllied to concepting that you can be in to work toward your dream career without investing time in a completely unrelated field in an unrelated industry or living under a bridge.

    And it shows all the studio name that exist irl that people don't even know
    Last edited by GPhong; April 12th, 2018 at 04:09 AM.
    People keep telling me : " Why do you keep suggesting courses and books instead of just giving me the solution directly ? "

    Well if i could condense all the necessary informations that take hours of explanation and demonstration into a single post, i would gladly do it

  21. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Posts
    2,152
    Thanks
    249
    Thanked 937 Times in 555 Posts
    Yeah sure, I just don't get what you meant by saying that there are plenty of jobs that are not Concept Art or 3D Artist, then link to a list that is 95+% 3D Artists

    Working as a 3D Artist of any description, be it prop, character, environment, animator or generalist is quite different from using 3D in a 2D context (proper topology and uvs, rigging, animation etc.). You (unfortunately) can't just decide to do 3D professionally in the meantime until you get your 2D gig. Getting to professional level in 3D takes quite a bit of time and effort since it is very, very technical and requires proficiency in several software packages depending on the job.

    I wish my 3D was professional level, there are soooo many more jobs in 3D. But my topology is shit and I hate SubDiv/poly-modelling. No chance of landing a 3D job without those skills.
    Last edited by Benedikt; April 12th, 2018 at 06:34 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. 2D Illustrator, Concept Artist, Game Artist looking to design Scifi/Fantasy Environme
    By AnthonyPismarov in forum Artists Available for Work!
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 29th, 2017, 11:24 AM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 18th, 2013, 03:39 PM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: April 6th, 2012, 04:21 PM
  4. Replies: 15
    Last Post: March 21st, 2010, 10:01 AM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 10th, 2008, 07:26 PM

Members who have read this thread: 11

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.