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  1. #1
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    Word of advice for those buying art lessons online.

    I’m speaking here, not as a teacher (seriously look at my username), but as a costumer.


    As someone that has spent money on art courses and is still glad to do so, there is a huge reason I and plenty of others don’t buy from certain teachers courses or at least won’t buy them, again. A lot of paid tutorials are simply ego stroking disguised as “lessons” with zero educatonal value. They are a huge waste of time and money.


    Few courses I can say have been worth my money. I bought Proko and that’s an example of me being happy despite it’s ,relatively, high pricer. (I though it was a steal for all the content it offers though.)


    The reason is that plenty of instructors despite being amazing artists are horrible teachers. I cant tell you how many times I have been disapointed on how often I have bought or watched a glorified “watch me draw” courses.

    This is the reason I just couldn’t buy this course:

    https://cubebrush.co/tsvetka/product...-hair-tutorial. Is it a lesson on how blond hues work? Would be Worth it. Or is it just a watch me paint tutorial? Would Not be worth it. No idea. Therefore no sell. Plenty of pros sell your lessons that way and scare away potential costumers. A


    Your art sample is just not enough Let me give you an example:


    My latest dissapointment was “Aaron Blaises’ drawing human anatomy”

    <a href="https://youtu.be/uOcrsSbYteA">

    I left a full review here https://www.reddit.com/r/learnart/comments/7edzvu/i_dont_recomend_aaron_blaises_drawing_human/



    But long story short: it sucks.Aaron is a legend, he was a disney employee that worked on classic disney movies and his art is amazing,



    All signs point at his course being worth it, right? Wrong. Cue my dissapointment . His course was a glorified “watch me draw”. Few good tips now and then but objetively worse than a free youtube tutorial. It´s a bad course for learning anatomy.

    Don’t buy a tutorial just because you think the artist is amazing. Plenty of good artists will not explain you anything of value.

    Don’t buy brushes if you have no idea how to use them (they might want to explain them at least). You can find brushes for free anywhere anyway. Without knowledge those brushes won’t help anyone as only they know why they made them in the first place. “Artists” try to deceive you will be able to paint as good as them just by buying brushes. It’s the equivalent of buying a pencil and especting to be able to draw just by buying it

    Don’t buy their courses if you don’t have any sample of their teaching. Plenty of skilled artist with a lot of prestige (ex worked on blizzard or disney) are horrible teachers.


    Don’t buy “speed painting” or “painting processes” unless you really really already are used to their teaching methods or you just want to support them. I know a lot of people love them. But Plenty of speedpaintings are free, most offer little educational value because you dont know why they made any of their choices. I rather buy a course explaining planes and values instead.

    Don’t buy the tutorial if it’s just a glorified “watch me draw” or an ego stroke.

    Don’t buy or watch from a teacher that sells you a “how to draw this [insert ultra specific Thing here ] or [how to draw X manga style].

    Sorry for the rant. But buying good art instruction can be incredibly frustrating sometimes. Took me some time just to find something I think it was worth it (proko). But I will not buy anything in the future unless it’s really highly recommended. Villpu, Proko, Loomis, New Master Academy are some of the few worth your time.

    If you they are selling a course I will be more likely to buy lessons from you , if I have an idea on yourteaching methods and if you are more explicit on what you are selling beyond “my painting process”.


    My advice to any fellow beginner reading this, Don’t buy course from online teachers unless they already have a prestigious teaching carrer and plenty of recomendations like Villppu or proko, even if you think their art is amazing. You most likely will get dissapointed on their teaching methods.


    Edit: The only cheap course I can recomend is Rich Grayson on udemy (otherwise avoid udemy like the plague). Great teaching the basics. And only the basics. He does what Loomis was trying to do with “fun with pencil” but better. You will need someone better for anatomy though.
    Last edited by TalentlessArtist; December 29th, 2017 at 04:02 AM.


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  4. #2
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    I've pointed that out many times on the board, those tutorials will only confuse you more. To be honest most of those artists aren't THAT good. For an example if you look at the image the artist painted on the CubeBrush link, the skin of the girl doesn't look natural. It looks like shiny plastic, they call that cheap plastic texture. When was the last time you saw a person with a skin like that? Magazines? Movies? Well those actors have tons of layers of makeup on their faces. To come back, that artist on CubeBrush doesn't know how to paint different textures.

    In 3d modelling you have two kind of textures:

    - hard textures: metal, plastic, wood etc.
    - organic textures: human flesh/skin, cloth etc.

    Both of them look extremely different and both need different approaches creating them especially when you;re sculpting in Zbrush. That artist from the Cbrush link fails pretty hard trying to paint organic textures. Your artwork is going to look very fake. When was the last time your face was shining just like the rest of your outfit?

    Those kind of tutorials really piss me off because they really don't teach you anything, when you study their paintings you'll notice that there are many errors in them, some of them can't draw for shit buy hey as long they have a couple K's subs on Youtube they HAVE to be good right? I gave on free shit longtime ago. They're not doing it to share their knowledge but more to stroke their ego. Sure getting positive feedback from people who don't even know how to draw, yet are able to spot mistakes.

    A course that really helped me out was Anatomy and Figure Drawing for Beginners by Rich Grayson you get buy it from Udemy for 12 euros. He isn't the best artist but a great motivator and teacher and really shows you the basics, how to get stuff done, gives you homework. His courses are a real eye opener for a beginner. From there you can take it to an another level by learning from other sources. I've also subbed to New Masters Academy, their learning material is WAY better compared to anything I had ever purchased.

    I bought a tutorial once, because I saw the end result. So I was happy "Oh boy this one has to be much different compared to all the garbage I bought before"... Well guess what? It had no fucking commentary; NO AUDIO. Like what the hell is wrong with an artist releasing garbage like that? Seriously, let me sell you a book which has ALL the secrets you want to know... the book comes without any text!

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    I couldn’t agree more. Plenty of this online courses are pretty awful ego stroking disguised as teaching.


    I second Rch Grayson. I know the pros on this site will crucify me, but despite his low level skills, Rich is the best teacher I have seen for absolute beginners. He was a true eye opener in a way the “legends” like Loomis never could.


    Sadly Rich´s course falls apart once you get to anatomy. Rich isn’t at a level to be teaching anatomy on a professional level. I personally decided to go with Proko for more advanced teaching. I will try new masters academy next.


    My advice to any fellow beginner reading this, Don’t buy course from online teachers unless they already have a prestigious teaching carrer and plenty of recomendations like Villppu or proko, even if you think their art is amazing. You most likely will get dissapointed on their teaching methods.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beezball View Post
    A course that really helped me out was Anatomy and Figure Drawing for Beginners by Rich Grayson you get buy it from Udemy for 12 euros. He isn't the best artist but a great motivator and teacher and really shows you the basics, how to get stuff done, gives you homework. His courses are a real eye opener for a beginner. From there you can take it to an another level by learning from other sources. I've also subbed to New Masters Academy, their learning material is WAY better compared to anything I had ever purchased.
    Last edited by TalentlessArtist; December 23rd, 2017 at 06:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentlessArtist View Post
    I couldn’t agree more. Plenty of this online courses are pretty awful ego stroking disguised as teaching.


    I second Rch Grayson. I know the pros on this site will crucify me, but despite his low level skills, Rich is the best teacher I have seen for absolute beginners. He was a true eye opener in a way the “legends” like Loomis never could.


    Sadly Rich´s course falls apart once you get to anatomy. Rich isn’t at a level to be teaching anatomy on a professional level. I personally decided to go with Proko for more advanced teaching. I will try new masters academy next.


    My advice to any fellow beginner reading this, Don’t buy course for online teachers unless they already have a prestigious teaching carrer and plenty of recomendations like Villppu or proko, even if you think their art is amazing. You most likely will get dissapointed on their teaching methods.
    I noticed it too with his course, but he admits it himself he said it often that he isn't a pro and he's still learning, so thats a huge plus in my book. He explains it in basic terms, explains every single step he does. New Masters Academy is a great source to learn from, some of the best artists teach there like Glenn Vilppu, Rey Bustos, Sheldon Borenstein. Sheldon is my favorite instructor there, he's a good teacher and has a great sense of humor. I love the way he talks, he pretends like you;re there sitting right in front of him in a real classroom. Erik Olson is the perspective expert there, he has a huge serie about perspective drawing currently it exists of 21 parts but he's going to do more in the future.

    Books are even worse, I couldn't learn anything from books. The ones I got sucked, in the first couple pages they talk about basic exercises. On the next chapter they'll move to already advanced stuff, showing a nearly completed drawing expecting you to do the same with your beginner skills, so demotivation is there right at the corner waiting.

    There are other artists you really should avoid imho;

    - IDRAWGIRLS aka xia taptara.
    - Neil Fontaine
    - Riven Phoenix
    - Istebrak (on YouTube)

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    Completely agreed,

    Yeah. Despite all of that, I also recomend Rich’s Course.

    Istebrak has some good stuff. Like the “how to draw cute” was an eye opener for me .But her lessons overall are incredibly padded with filler even the good ones. And her 14 day challenge lacks any teaching on much needed face structure

    She takes 2 hours for something that only needs 10 or even 5 minutes, which is why I gave up on on her lessons.

    Probably her worst lesson is “how to paint hair” that was basically a 30 minute ad on “buy my hair brushes”. “ You can only paint good hair with special brushes you need to buy guys”

    Neil Fontainee has zero bussines being a teacher.

    Others to avoid:

    Mark Crilley
    Sara Tepes
    ModernDay James
    Aaron blaise
    draw with jazza
    jetty jet show
    Keenan Lafrey

    Some of the mentioned have gems hidden like istebrak. But are not worth the time comitment

    Quote Originally Posted by Beezball View Post
    I noticed it too with his course, but he admits it himself he said it often that he isn't a pro and he's still learning, so thats a huge plus in my book. He explains it in basic terms, explains every single step he does. New Masters Academy is a great source to learn from, some of the best artists teach there like Glenn Vilppu, Rey Bustos, Sheldon Borenstein. Sheldon is my favorite instructor there, he's a good teacher and has a great sense of humor. I love the way he talks, he pretends like you;re there sitting right in front of him in a real classroom. Erik Olson is the perspective expert there, he has a huge serie about perspective drawing currently it exists of 21 parts but he's going to do more in the future.

    Books are even worse, I couldn't learn anything from books. The ones I got sucked, in the first couple pages they talk about basic exercises. On the next chapter they'll move to already advanced stuff, showing a nearly completed drawing expecting you to do the same with your beginner skills, so demotivation is there right at the corner waiting.

    There are other artists you really should avoid imho;

    - IDRAWGIRLS aka xia taptara.
    - Neil Fontaine
    - Riven Phoenix
    - Istebrak (on YouTube)

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    It really seems like anyone with a decent computer and a wacom tablet can call himself an art teacher. IMHO it's a bad thing. Quantity over quality.

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    I would have to agree. Cubebrush type tutorials are all about a "give a man a fish" kind of teaching. You know, give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him to fish he never goes hungry. You don't need a tutorial about how to paint x. That's not education. You need to learn the principles of art so you can figure out for yourself how to paint blonde hair, or any color of hair. But I do believe there are some good tutorials for free on youtube. Jeff Watts, Marco Bucci, FZDschool, Proko of course, and Bobby Chiu all give really good advice.

    You kind of have to excuse Istebrak's older videos, because she has improved over time. Actually I think if she did a few years at an Atelier, or online school herself she would actually be quite a good teacher. But I think anyone who advertises and sells their own brushes for like 40 bucks is over the line. Nobody really needs more than the default brushes.


    Also I'll have to disagree with beezball about the books. I've learned much more from books than any living teacher. Harold Speed, Hawthorne, Solomon Solomon, Bridgman all were some of the best teachers of their time and their books have a lot of truth in them. Just forget about step by step tutorials.

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    I second that sentiment on cube bursh. I bought his “how to paint metal” it costed me 2 dollars and I still feel scammed.I was expdecting an explantion on how metals interact with light or how gold uses several orange and yellow colors hues to create that effect.

    The “lesson” was basically yeah use “perspective tool and gradients to fake paiting reflections”. And for gold “use color sliders” and “blending modes”.

    Maybe it’s just me. But using photoshop’s photo manipulation tricks aren’t what I call “how to paint”. And worse those “tricks” you can’t apply them on anything that isn`t photoshop.

    Doesn’t give me too much faith on his $500 dollar “Online art school” if a mini lessin is that deceiving.

    Needless to say I asked for a refund.


    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCowan View Post
    I would have to agree. Cubebrush type tutorials are all about a "give a man a fish" kind of teaching. You know, give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him to fish he never goes hungry. You don't need a tutorial about how to paint x. That's not education. You need to learn the principles of art so you can figure out for yourself how to paint blonde hair, or any color of hair. But I do believe there are some good tutorials for free on youtube. Jeff Watts, Marco Bucci, FZDschool, Proko of course, and Bobby Chiu all give really good advice.

    You kind of have to excuse Istebrak's older videos, because she has improved over time. Actually I think if she did a few years at an Atelier, or online school herself she would actually be quite a good teacher. But I think anyone who advertises and sells their own brushes for like 40 bucks is over the line. Nobody really needs more than the default brushes.


    Also I'll have to disagree with beezball about the books. I've learned much more from books than any living teacher. Harold Speed, Hawthorne, Solomon Solomon, Bridgman all were some of the best teachers of their time and their books have a lot of truth in them. Just forget about step by step tutorials.
    Last edited by TalentlessArtist; December 23rd, 2017 at 08:05 PM.

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    I'm surprised to see Modern Day James as an artist to avoid. I just recently discovered him maybe a couple weeks ago, and he provides some interesting bits of information regarding perspective. His streams could be a bit more exciting though. What exactly about him did you not like? Same for Kienan Lafferty.

    I do agree with the overall sentiment of the thread, though. It gets very frustrating trying to find decent information to help you along your journey when most of it is, as you say, a glorified watch me draw session. I wonder if it's because most of them don't teach fundamentals but jump into extraneous things like "how to draw Demi Lovato on a sunny beach." Also, Proko is the bomb!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stormygabe View Post
    I'm surprised to see Modern Day James as an artist to avoid. I just recently discovered him maybe a couple weeks ago, and he provides some interesting bits of information regarding perspective. His streams could be a bit more exciting though. What exactly about him did you not like? Same for Kienan Lafferty.

    I do agree with the overall sentiment of the thread, though. It gets very frustrating trying to find decent information to help you along your journey when most of it is, as you say, a glorified watch me draw session. I wonder if it's because most of them don't teach fundamentals but jump into extraneous things like "how to draw Demi Lovato on a sunny beach." Also, Proko is the bomb!
    To clarify they have good gems. I just think they have some huge time sinks to avoid

    Modernday james perspective course is good, also took it .But his anatomy lessons are poor and basically a rehash on Hampton’s book. That’s no especulation.He even jokes about it. Better to avoid them an go to Hampton book on your own imo.

    Kenan is a very charismatic guy and I like him as a person. He also has some gems worth watching. His color boomerang is pure gold as is his gems lesson. But overall his lessons have a lot of padding or go nowhere. The best example is his anatomy lessons that are devoid on a lot of information say say this one

    https://youtu.be/JeluYdgfltY


    On that video he literally says“ I think Imade up some muscles that don`t exist.”


    Good tips... but it assumes you already know muscles. And the message is basically lot’s of muscles go under the deltoid”! Someone that doesn’t know that probably can’t draw muscles in the first place. They might want to study anatomy somewhere else.

    I wouldn’t recomend any of his anatomy lessons. Say his planes of the head lesson is too stylsed and not very clear to be useful.As in he never explains how the planes work or what they represent.

    I almost guarantee you won’t learn how to draw arms by watching his videos as again he assumes you already know the muscles and bones.

    Overall I would say he is fantastic at giving art tips.But expecting to learn anatomy from him is not a good idea at all and will result in you just wasting time.

    Definitvely agree on Proko. It’s amazing how many awful teachers make leanring a lot harder than it should. Thank God. We have people like Proko or NMA
    Last edited by TalentlessArtist; December 23rd, 2017 at 09:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentlessArtist View Post
    To clarify they have good gems. I just think they have some huge time sinks to avoid

    Modernday james perspective course is good, also took it .But his anatomy lessons are poor and basically a rehash on Hampton’s book. That’s no especulation.He even jokes about it. Better to avoid them an go to Hampton book on your own imo.

    Kenan is a very charismatic guy and I like him as a person. He also has some gems worth watching. His color boomerang is pure gold as is his gems lesson. But overall his lessons have a lot of padding or go nowhere. The best example is his anatomy lessons that are devoid on a lot of information say say this one

    https://youtu.be/JeluYdgfltY

    Good tips... but it assumes you already know muscles. And the message is basically lot’s of muscles go under the deltoid”! Someone that doesn’t know that probably can’t draw muscles in the first place. They might want to study anatomy somewhere else.

    I wouldn’t recomend any of his anatomy lessons. Say his planes of the head lesson is too stylsed and not very clear to be useful.As in he never explains how the planes work or what they represent.

    I alsmot guaranbtee you won’t learn how to draw arms by watching his videos as again he assumes you already know the muscles.

    Overall I would say he is fantastic at giving art tips.But expecting to learn anatomy from him is not a good idea at all and will result in you just wasting time.

    Definitvely agree on Proko. It’s amazing how many awful teachers make leanring a lot harder than it should. Thank God. We have people like Proko or NMA

    Okay yeah I can agree with these points. It definitely would be better to hear a message straight from the source than a rehashed version. (in the case of Moderndayjames) And in retrospect, I personally watch both those guys mainly to get a sense of motivation when I'm feeling down or lost. But as far as actually learning I'll agree that they're not the most helpful. I'm also gonna have to check out that New Master's Academy. It sounds interesting.

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    Yeap.

    My personal theory is that plenty ,besides those that are just bad teachers, don’t share their knowledge on purpose on fear of people “copying their style” or people getting as good as them and no longer needing them.

    I know it sounds silly and childish. But I have read some artist on devianart saying exactly that . Wouldn’t be surprised if it was the case for many “online teachers” too.
    Last edited by TalentlessArtist; December 23rd, 2017 at 09:57 PM.

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    Welp what you have to realize is that this is all part of the "art edutainment" industry. Following the example of older Youtube bigs like Mark Crilley, making online art tutorials became a viable career option. Personally I would love to have my own channel one day. So while I have my gripes with Youtube instructors, the fact is they are just artists trying to make it. There might be some truth in them witholding knowledge on purpose though. After all, if you can make a tutorial on how to paint pretty much every material, you can make a lot more money. And do NOT get me started on those deviant art tutorials! I actually enjoy looking at them, but they are incredibly superficial.

    Having studied art in college, I know that there are university professors that are far less qualified than Marc Brunet or Istebrak. It's a scam, frankly. So I am thankful for what good resources are actually out there. I've learned a lot just sifting through this forum. We should be glad that even the mediocre tutorials exist at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCowan View Post
    Having studied art in college, I know that there are university professors that are far less qualified than Marc Brunet or Istebrak. It's a scam, frankly. So I am thankful for what good resources are actually out there. I've learned a lot just sifting through this forum. We should be glad that even the mediocre tutorials exist at all.
    I don't think because you can draw better means you can teach better. I think most self-studied can't teach because their techniques only work on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gui-m View Post
    I don't think because you can draw better means you can teach better. I think most self-studied can't teach because their techniques only work on them.
    Most artists in art school pick the techniques that work for them, or even the techniques that do not work, but they invested in these and want to get their money back. This doesn't just hold for art: there are not many people who are good both at X and at teaching X. From my background in computer science, mathematics, animation and art in general, I remember at most 3 teachers who were both good in their field and teaching, quite a number of people good at one who suck at the other, and a shitload of people who suck at both but need the money.
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    A few points:

    1) As you guys have already pointed out, many artists who make instructional material are not good teachers and not good artists either. There are too many who think too highly of themselves.

    2) Some of the artists who make instructional material are the type of people who are unable or unwilling to explain things in a simple, clear, and coherent manner. They often make things unnecessarily complicated and typically give long explanations even about the simplest of things (maybe they just want to sound sophisticated to impress others). Unfortunately, if you are a beginner you will only get confused by such explanations and may think that art is too hard and may give up.

    3) I generally find books very helpful. Although books vary greatly in quality, I always do careful research before buying to make sure a book is worth my money. Reading the negative reviews on amazon is often helpful. In fact I always start by reading the bad reviews first, and sometimes that is enough to decide if a book is worth buying. I saved a lot of money thanks to those negative reviews. I also prefer books written before the internet came, because they tend to be better written. Perhaps publishing back then was not as easy and fewer people had ADD/ADHD, and times were less hectic/stressful - so authors had more time to write and could focus better.

    4) The ego stroking is certainly a big problem, especially today since we have a narcissism epidemic: http://www.narcissismepidemic.com/aboutbook.html
    Last edited by dm3da; December 25th, 2017 at 11:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dm3da View Post
    A few points:

    1) As you guys have already pointed out, many artists who make instructional material are not good teachers and not good artists either. There are too many who think too highly of themselves.

    2) Some of the artists who make instructional material are the type of people who are unable or unwilling to explain things in a simple, clear, and coherent manner. They often make things unnecessarily complicated and typically give long explanations even about the simplest of things (maybe they just want to sound sophisticated to impress others). Unfortunately, if you are a beginner you will only get confused by such explanations and may think that art is too hard and may give up.

    3) I generally find books very helpful. Although books vary greatly in quality, I always do careful research before buying to make sure a book is worth my money. Reading the negative reviews on amazon is often helpful. In fact I always start by reading the bad reviews first, and sometimes that is enough to decide if a book is worth buying. I saved a lot of money thanks to those negative reviews. I also prefer books written before the internet came, because they tend to be better written. Perhaps publishing back then was not as easy and fewer people had ADD/ADHD, and times were less hectic/stressful - so authors had more time to write and could focus better.

    4) The ego stroking is certainly a big problem, especially today since we have a narcissism epidemic: http://www.narcissismepidemic.com/aboutbook.html
    Couldn't agree more. This is the main problem with internet, anyone can start a channel and start to "teach". With other hobbies it's even worse. I've seen a lot of wannabee music producers on YouTube trying to do tutorials but they are totally clueless on what they're doing. Playing some random crap on a virtual synthesizer, abuse tons of filters to pretend like they know what they're doing just to look cool in front of their subs, masturbate on all the "OMG THIS IS SO NICE" comments. The majority of those guys know nothing about composition, playing instruments, and mastering all the audio levels of the instruments. YouTube is filled with this shit. I spoke to a guy once and he said you know what the problem is? Back in the 80ties I got my first synthesizer and sequencer, we had no internet so you had no choice but to read the manual. So you'll get to know the instruments better and you're going to focus much more on the composition. Nowadays every kid with a decent pc and a decent audio card calls himself a DJ or a producer while he can't even play some basic chords on a keyboard/synthesizer.

    I have ADHD and OCD (whoa what a combination lol), sometimes when I watch tutorials for an example a Maya tutorial I hate it that the author explains all the settings and options, why? Because you'll never use them at all at least the majority of them. Other thing that pisses me off is when the resolution of the video files are not all the same. Like dude, you rendered tutorial 1 in 1080p and tutorial 2 in 720p. What the fuck is wrong with you. IMHO that doesn't look professional, you'll get the idea that the author just doesn't give a shit and doesn't take teaching seriously. I hate it even worse when the names in the playlist don't match the titles on the pages with the embedded videos.

    Often some new people come here and post in the critique section, some get so angry and upset if a fellow boardmember shows them their errors. It really makes me wonder how do they deal with this situations in real life? Doesn't long to figure out their DeviantART page and all the ass licking comments they receive their, so if anyone criticizes their work and shows them the mistakes they made they experience it as a punch in the face. Basically they're just fooling themselves thus its impossible for them to advance and improve.

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  30. #19
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    Heads up everyone! I updated my intial post to be more clear on what to avoid as a warning for any fellow future aspiring artist

    Couldn’t agree more with both of you. The internet is filled with awful Teachers

    There is a reason I choose this username is to remind myself that I am awful. This site intimidates me a lot as 98% of the people here are a whole world better than I will ever be.

    Overall most of this online teachers do more harm than good as a lot of people give up and we lose amazing artist and amazing stories because a lot of these people deceive, willingly or unwillingly, those that are eager to learn.

    I can’t tell you how much I hate those “ how to draw [ insert X Manga style] or how to draw [inster this super specific thing here].


    Quote Originally Posted by Beezball View Post
    Couldn't agree more. This is the main problem with internet, anyone can start...
    Doesn't long to figure out their DeviantART page and all the ass licking comments they receive their, so if anyone criticizes their work and shows them the mistakes they made they experience it as a punch in the face. Basically they're just fooling themselves thus its impossible for them to advance and improve.

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    Maybe recommend instead of angernery?
    Last edited by Vangruffe; December 27th, 2017 at 09:30 AM.

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    That´s a good idea. I might open a new thread, but in the meantime this are my recs as a costumer. I am not an expert like the pros here):

    FREE


    WWW.the drawingwebsite.com A simpons’ animator teaches all the basics.

    Sycra: With the caveat that I only recommend his basic explanations on painting and planes. Anatomy not so much.


    Youtube’s Alphonso Dunn. A great resource for learning how to use basic shapes

    Draw a box: Great for the basics.


    Istebrak: Has some great gems. With the warning that
    A)she is not good start point from absolute zero as she focuses on painting.
    B)has huge time sinks best to avoid
    C) 14 day challenge is not good.
    D) Doesn’t teach drawing, mostly painting lessons.


    Mark’s drawing tutorials. Amazing at learning perspective, elipses and the box.


    PAID recommended.


    RichGrayson on Udemy. The greatest course I have ever seen for absolute beginners and the “can’t even draw a stick figure crowd”. The best example of a Bad artist being a good teacher. Warning: His anatomy and his painting lessons are not good and the teacher is not that good. He only gets a rec on the basis that his basic shapes explanation is a true eye opener that will encourage people that can’t draw to draw.


    Proko. Everything he sells is pure gold.


    New Masters academy. They have Vilpu, nuff said.


    PAID to Avoid


    ANYTHING on Udemy
    90% of cubebrush
    Anything on gumroad
    Anything on skillshare.
    Draw with Jazza
    Aaron Blaise
    Pencil Kings. I saw a lot of watch me draw “lessons” and draw this specific thing there.
    Anything how to draw manga or insert X super specific thing here

    Unknown and untested (proceed with caution)


    Cubebrush offers a “art school” I haven’t heard any reviews.They are not big on giving refunds though, so be warned. Another warning. Marc brunet often teaches photoshop “tricks” in place of actual painting theory.

    Drawing academy. No idea how good they are.

    Pencil king’s figure drawing bootcamp. They claim people from the industry like Marvel comics take it but I have never seen any demos or recomenations anywhere and that makes me suspicious

    Cgmaster academy. Can’t find reviews anywhere. They claim to have michael Hampton (made an amazing book). But they seem to be very expensive. Not sure if is worth it.
    Last edited by TalentlessArtist; December 27th, 2017 at 04:47 AM.
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  34. #22
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    Btw sorry for the double pst. But this is a second topic I wanted to adress separately. I contacted the artist that sold the how to paint blond hair tutorial on cubebrush.

    I asked her if she taught something about how the different hues of red and yellow create blond tones or if she explained the different kinds of blonds like platinum blond.

    Her reply was basically “I share my painting process and how I chose my palette. I love painting blond hair ”

    That didn’t answer my question at all.

    The artist is amazing.And the lesson might be amazing for all I know.

    But the way she sells it seems more a like a “eat a fish” , instead of learn to fish kind of lesson,that is best to avoid. This is why I don’t like cubrebrush store that much. Specially becuase they don’t like giving refunds and won’t give refunds for bad lessons at all.
    Last edited by TalentlessArtist; December 27th, 2017 at 05:13 AM.
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    Much as I agree with the general sentiment behind this topic, and - to be honest - much as I'm fond of a good whinge, this topic has been needling me somehow, and now this 'comprehensive list'...

    Quote Originally Posted by TalentlessArtist View Post
    Sycra: With the caveat that I only recommend his basic explanations on painting and planes. Anatomy not so much.
    Mark’s drawing tutorials. Amazing at learning perspective, elipses and the box.


    What's a Sycra and where do you find one? I've heard it mentioned a few times recently (I thought on this topic, but if I did, the refs are gone now) and I don't think I've heard any info beyond 'does okay sometimes'. And 'Mark'? Really? Do I just google for Mark? Or is the name actually 'Mark's Drawing Tutorials'?

    Most of this topic has been a strange mix of specific gripes; single mysterious pseudonames; and vague allusions. It comes across with much the same impression of 'just do as I do', 'you should know what I'm talking about', and 'occasional insights' as the instructors being accused.


    PAID to Avoid


    ANYTHING on Udemy
    90% of cubebrush
    Anything on gumroad
    Anything on skillshare.
    Draw with Jazza
    Aaron Blaise
    Pencil Kings. I saw a lot of watch me draw “lessons” and draw this specific thing there.


    This is ridiculous. This list can only come about through one of two ways:

    1) you've bought everything from each of these sources, and found them all wanting.

    2) you've bought a few things from each - or just some - of these sources, and in a fit of pique declared everything useless.

    The fact that Pencil Kings is also in the 'untested' list is a big hint (if it's needed) that it's not 1). But in either case: did you let them know? Granted, I can imagine many ascended deviants and brittle egos turning a deaf ear, and someone'll be along in a bit to tell me 'That's not our job! The instructors should just know!' (Which, again, would be a little ironic); but I can imagine some being concerned that their students are not getting all they could, and if you put half as much effort into that as you have shouting into the void - or the echo chamber - here...

    (Or just going and drawing)

    Also, this is a costumer:

    Word of advice for those buying art  lessons online.

    The one down in the corner. Unless you're looking for vids to help you with that, you're a customer.
    Last edited by Vermis; December 27th, 2017 at 09:13 AM.
    ...which is only my opinion.
    Sketchbook Deviations

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    -Proko is one of the best I've seen online. His videos have been invaluable in efficiently expressing the underlying artistic principles and concepts, enabling you to see how knowledge of them contributes to your understanding and creativity at more advanced stages in the artistic process. I've changed my approach to drawing the figure as a result of his tutorials.

    -New Masters Academy looks very promising in terms of the instructors; how have your experiences with it been?

    -Marc Leone on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNP...3Q8zr4eKvmhLGQ seems to be quite new, only starting in the past few months, but the videos feel in-depth (and many are 40+ minutes) and informative. His artistic style is also quite appealing.

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    Books by Jack Hamm and Andrew Loomis can be recommended.

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    You misunderstood me completely.


    I just share my experiences. me saying I am just a client means I don’t have the absolute truth, just like yelp review doesn’t have the absolute truth. But yes I checked Several. I was for a time a memeber of pencil kings and I did check the reviews of literally all drawing udemy courses. I did check the drawing courses on skillshare...

    Also you misunderstood again. I did test apencil kings. I didn't test pencil king’s bootcamp as I said explictly but I did test the membership. The “boot camp” part was another hint you missed. Hint: they are not the same thing.

    What’s truly ridiculous is strawmaning me becuase you couldn’t read properly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vermis View Post
    Also, this is a costumer:
    The one down in the corner. Unless you're looking for vids to help you with that, you're a customer.
    In your smugness I know you might feel “smart” for poiting the mistake of someone with dyslexia. In reality that’st just a childish low blow.

    I find your “joke” pedantic and cowardly passive agresive.

    And I do not take kindly to bullies.
    Last edited by TalentlessArtist; December 27th, 2017 at 01:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlameDragon View Post
    -New Masters Academy looks very promising in terms of the instructors; how have your experiences with it been?
    New Masters Academy is very good, they do focus on beginners. Most of their tutorials do hand out homework for the viewers. They also have a beginner serie focusing on the basics of drawing, basic landscape drawing, basic figure drawing, basic shapes, lighting etc. They add material from Art Mentors, so this is a huge plus.

    My favorite instructor is Sheldon Borenstein, he's a good teacher and has a great sense of humor. Other thing I like about NMA is their huge model photo library, they also have animal photos.

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    November 2016 - December 2017 : https://i.imgur.com/IgGUkot.png
    You can check out my learn progress on my FB profile : https://www.facebook.com/ho.gphong/m...9954924&type=3
    Or my Artstation if you don't want to look through the sketches and trashes : https://www.artstation.com/greypanda
    This is not meant to be promotional . But on the topic of good learning source , i would like to show these so people can revaluate my words
    The experience of my learning is:
    - you need a structured approach . This is taken for granted in many other fields but in art , for some reasons , people really like " git gud quick" tricks, which is dumb for anyone who want to make a career out of anything. This is why good courses triump over any "tutorials". That's not to say tutorials are all bad , but most of them are one shot that doesn't connect to anything else , leaving the learner which bit and pieces of knowledge and huge gaps in their understanding.

    - I had 1 year subcription in New Masters Academy :

    + Overall the quality is good , even though the structure of the site is chaotic, there's no guide on where to look first. Personally i suggest starting with Steve Huston .Why Steve and not Vilppu ? Vilppu doesn't emphasize on turning basic primitives into part of the human figure , he tells you to " feel the form" , which is a very correct thing to do , but his words are often misunderstood by the students . You can look around and see all the Vilppu's internet students who draw noodle-y figure with tons of scriblle lines. That's not to say that Vilppu is bad, but his stuffs are more suitable for inermediate students who has mastered the structured approach in figure drawing. Moreover , Steve Huston's way of teaching is more in-line with Proko, Michael Hampton , Loomis for cross referencing.
    + Grey Busto is a great anatomy teacher because his course is very structured, he doesn't go deep but enough for people to understand the most fundamentals, most applicable.
    + Bill Perkin is underrated, he explains color well. He's also working in visual development for Disney, which makes his series on styles and composition really profound. It blew my mind the first time listening to him talking about the style spectrum
    + There are other stuffs there that are also very good ( like Chris Legaspi's ) , but that's for now.

    - I'm currently on the 6th month of Schoolism
    + Overall it feels like the correct next step after New masters Academy with more expansion on previous stuffs i learned. But the site is not very suitable for beginner who still learns how to draw.
    + Lessons on "Fundamental of Lighting" is very crucial in painting realisticly ( A lot of people think lighting is easy and they understand it all, and that's very wrong, it's really , really complex ) .
    + I really enjoy Nathan Fowkes's lesson on color and composition
    + There are other series on the subject of painting with great quality
    + The greatest thing about Schoolism is that it's very structured , and you get feedbacks on previous student's work to understand the common mistakes and pitfall

    - I had a few months on Jeff Watt Atelier online program
    + It kinda hurts my wallet
    + My biggest gripe is with Jeff's lessons themselves. The videos are of high quality , you get to watch a master working form the start to finish( which is great ) . But there's very few videos on the theory so most of the time it's about copying what Watt does and try to figure out what he thinks. When he paints, he doesn't explain the principles, theories behind what he does like Steve Huston, he just talks about manner to study.
    + Other teachers's videos are well explained to me . I really like Jeff Watt's father lessons.

    - Move on to smaller courses :

    + Dorian Iten course of Lighting and Form is INSANELY good, i couldn't paint realisticaly enough before going through it
    + Scott Eaton's course on anatomy is extremely detailed , a huge upgrade to my anatomical knowledge . Useful for anyone who plans to do very realistic 2D characters or 3D sculpt . The guy himselfs work on some Hollywood project like Clash of the Titans
    People keep telling me : " Why do you keep suggesting courses and books instead of just giving me the solution directly ? "

    Well if i could condense all the necessary informations that take hours of explanation and demonstration into a single post, i would gladly do it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Spot View Post
    I think judging lessons when you can't actually draw is part of the problem.
    Of course, there is a reason I chose this username. I suck. I have zero problem with leaving my ego at the door. Art is the biggest thing I love that I can’t do. I don’t blame others for my failures. I take responsability for them. I suck at at art but that’s nothing new for me.

    But that doesn’t mean my opinion has no merit as that would be an appeal to authority fallacy “ Your opinion is only valid if you are good”. The arguments need to be judged on their own merits.

    I concede giving art advice would be something I am not qualified to. But I am not giving art advice. I am saying “ this product didn’t work for me for X reason”.

    I think that there is merit in judging what works for you, That’s why I always said. I am judging this as a client not an expert. Those were my firsts words, in fact.

    Any student can recognize a bad teacher after taking lessons from them. In college I studied law and we all knew exactly who the bad teachers were from the good ones. That was before I could graduate or take cases in court like I do know. And my opinion hasn’t changed.

    For all the bad teachers I have followed, I only blame myself for my failures.
    Last edited by TalentlessArtist; December 28th, 2017 at 07:41 AM.
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