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a little background: Blackhawk (nate) (or BIGGNATEDOGG to his close friends), MindCandyMan (Jon) and myself (michael) originally met and roomed together at the Austin workshop.
(jon, michael, nate)
Since then, we have gone to seperate Ateliers, hundreds of miles away. Well, Jon went to one, Nate joined him, then I went to a different one.This thread will be a way for us to post a page a day, motivate, critique, and keep each other company in the weee weeeeeee hours of the morning.
Last edited by jetpack42; January 29th, 2005 at 04:07 PM.
There you go you mangy bastard!! You got some funky faces going on there You going for realistic or stylized? Tomorrow Mike, more tomorrow!!
Last edited by Blackhawk; November 18th, 2004 at 05:36 AM.
I'm always shooting for realistic. Though I always fall short. I figure once I can master that, or at least, come close to getting pretty good, then I can find my style. Until then, I'm just trying to break bad habits. Today I got so angry of politics, I couldn't think straight. This was done while listening to the election coverage on CNN...I just couldnt even think straight. I'll do something killer tomorrow.
Yours is awesome. You inspired me to draw with a mechanical pencil. the undersketch really adds to the drawing, in this instance. are you doing this all with a pencil? or are you cheating some in photoshop?
anyway, look for me tomorrow...I'll kick some ass.
Good Mike. If your shooting for realistic, really study the anatomy and lighting as much as possible. Get heavily involved in your life drawing courses and really actively engage your brain in the process and memorizing what your drawing.
The previous drawing was done in Painter. Keep it up bud, work work work work!!
Last edited by Blackhawk; November 18th, 2004 at 05:36 AM.
Great idea guys! These are all lookin great!
Blackhawk - That preist guy kicks my ass! Cool angle and I dig the shading on his head. Those legs are great! The rendering of the right leg is excellent, I especially love the harshly shadowed area around the knee.
JP - You're a maniac! You're doing great with those crazy perspecive angles of the heads. Those always confuse the hell out of me. Well... less now since I'm hooked up to the all mighty Watt's 5000. The profile is lookin good. I'd just say either get your ass in the Anatomy of the Torso class right now! or... watch your latts there. They look like they're wrapping under the pecs and not into the humerus. Also Marty explains the Serratus as an arc where it is convex towards the front of the body. I'll have to show you some of the quick anatomy sketches Jeff has done all over my work. Great job though! AAATT for life!
So uh... how does one join this monstrosity of a thread? Is it closed to all but you mighty 3... or can a whee fella like me join in the mix once I get some web space?
nate you american bastard
both of you , great pics !!
great way to motivate eachother !
post more guys...im waiting
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Just some boring anatomy studies...I spent more time erasing than anything else hehe...I definitely need this practice. You guys will kick my butt.
I'm struggling trying to understand and grasp the 3d form and I'm trying to duplicate it from my head...sheesh that's hard:
Ok Nate said I had to critique so here it is hehe:
Mike your heads seem to be too big in all of these drawings and nate is right they are very stylized. Also your limbs seem a bit too flabby...use angular lines to make it look more solid...and make sure not to bend the bones. An hour really isn't a long time though hehe.
Nate that knee on the right is good and you really see the structure there but the leg on the left is really weird looking to me for some reason...maybe it's the foot. The foot looks like rubber and the lower left side of the kneecap looks really strange sticking out like that. That may be the drawing you were using though hehe. I like the bishop scorpion but the hat is sort of out of perspective or something wonky.
Blah, ran out of time, didn't really come together like I had hoped for the time limit, but I'm going to work the idea up more.
Bjorn - How's it going man? I miss you guys from Amsterdam, that was fun. You've been kicking ass, I love your work man.
Spaz - Thanks man.
Jon - Thanks man. Yeah, the priest drawing was wonky. After I had already drew it out right before my time was up, I had noticed the perspective problems. As for the knees, most of it was my screw-up, some was just the straight copy from the reference I was studying. I need to do more, I learned a bit about knee structure. It was good. Thanks for the critique.
Your leg studies are looking good, get more solid structure in there. Some of the proportions and angles are wonky though. Legs are off axis, looks kind of noodley. Keep practicing though. EVERYDAY!!
Last edited by Blackhawk; November 18th, 2004 at 05:36 AM.
I rushed a little too much, but I wanted to compose some figures on the page. I'll slow down on the next few, but I wanted to give this a shot and have a little fun. More seriousness tomorrow.
Blackhawk2- the stand up leg looks great. the sitting leg, the knee looks a little too far slanted from right to left. i could be wrong, but this is what my gut tells me
spaz- cool man, i still gotta check out yours and adrians sketchbooks sometime too. you will have to show me. ive studied the neck alot, and im trying to broaden my understanding on down the torso, but ive studied feet the least, and it shows. one thing at a time though. once you get some space, get on in, dood.
hurricane- thx dude. our powers combined, we are captain america!
MCM- thanks man, you're right. i'll keep that in mind, and try and straighten things out. I'll keep an eye on dem heads. Thanks!
Yeah, it is tough. One thing to keep in mind, I'm told in quicksketch, try and get the sweep of the limb first, then build the muscles around it. This is good advice for myself, and its funny that I'm telling you, I need it just as much. but something to keep in mind, get the general direction and proportions, then build the muscles. keep an eye on the whole. and limit yourself with the eraser! hehe.
Blackhawk3- ill as usual, man. to be picky, the eyes dont look like they line up, or are the same size in the same size eye sockets. great work!
Last edited by jetpack42; November 4th, 2004 at 07:05 AM. Reason: your mom
heynow! cool stuff guys, this is a good idea, nice support group, educates and encourages. I have nothing to add that hasn't already been mentioned. I'll be checking back tho.
bwkeough - Thanks man!
Nate that rules...but how long did you have to hold your face like that heheheh...I would have loved to see that. Give the head a bit more perspective and it's lovalee.
jetty I love the pose just make sure the proportions are right...also think of defining the form by the shadows...make sure your tone is more consistent and less scratchy so it reads right...really study how the shadow shapes create the illusion of form...it's really tough in an hour though that's for sure heheh...really tough.
i was not watching bruce lee today. i slowed down and spent alot of time getting things right on this one...
yeah, I'm workin on it. hehe. you might want to try and think about shading a little more with the forms. your values are working ok, but lots of the shading is going in the same direction, and its playing a double trick on my eyes...
bwkeough- cool, thanks man.
Tadema Butt Study... oh yeah!!
Bwkeough - Thanks
Jon - Good start. My big critique though is your shading is really fighting the form. It isn't really helping to explain anything. Remember back to the Barques, how the shading helped to reinforce the form of those drawings, try to do the same with yours. Haphazard or shading against the form tends to flatten and obscure more than help from my experience.
Mike - Cool pose man, watch your head sizes though. I've noticed that in a lot of your drawings so far is a vast exaggeration in the head size. If I were you, I'd go over my proportions a bit, especially since you said you want a more realistic style. Nip it in the bud!! I'd like to see you do some anatomy studies, muscles studies, maybe some proportion stuff as well. Really see where everything is at.
Last edited by Blackhawk; November 18th, 2004 at 05:37 AM.
nate, you're absolutely right. thanks so much for pointing that out. i am learning alot from this thread already, and i feel the improvement. thanks for spurring me on, and i'll do my best to do the same for you both.
that said...i can't see anything to really crit about yours nate. maybe the hips are a little small for the butt? i dont do any digital painting, so its tough for me to point things out in painter, ill do my best though
workin on head proportions today, noodled a couple really bad skulls from memory. i gotta get in there at watts and draw them some more.
LOL, don't know what to say about this one. It's crap!!
Mike - Keep working it bud. The skulls look like they could have used a little more effort and closer observation. The heads on the guys are getting closer to respectable size. My only real complaint is again, much closer observation of the skull.
Jon - Jon, Jon,.... where are you?
Last edited by Blackhawk; November 18th, 2004 at 05:37 AM.
nate, that bust is dope! do you take those things home from the studio? man, that is awesome. i need to do stuff like that. some parts look a little skewed...the ears, and maybe the jaw.
i wanted to redeem myself after my poor skullage last time. all from imagination. when i draw the eye sockets in perspective, they end up looking like night vision goggles....gotta work on that...
AWESOME thread. I CANT WAIT to see more. All 3 of you are amazingly talented
Art Blog: http://www.beyesart.blogspot.com
joshuathejames: haha awesome
jetpack: good idea dude, you guys are pumping out some goodness fo' sho' Your progress since Watts has been amazing. I can't wait to get down to some sketching with you and the crew.
Mindcandy: it's been awesome to see you're progress, seeing 3d forms on a 2d plane is something everyone struggles with. I did a little stint of sculpting and this really helped my understanding. My sculpting teacher had this rant about understanding the world in 3d, you sculpt and draw until you grasp it but when you do it's like a euphoric sensation. He described it as being able to understand how far buildings are away from you and understanding your relationship to your surroundings. I can't say I had the same point of sudden realization but if you work at it you'll be able to command it. I know you can do it and have already. You might try breaking the figure into abstract robot-like shapes and modeling it in space.
Blackhawk: thats some killer work up here, I like the bold marks you make next to black shapes, esp. on the butt study.
Water fell on my sketchbook (it was my own fault) and I forgot to scan the drawings hehe...not a good weekend. At any rate here are two of the pages...sorry brothers...don't disown me
(hence the water)
Burning eyes - Thanks man
joshy - Thanks man...just trying to catch up to you
steak - Thanks bro that helps a ton...I have been thinking that for a while I need to just do it
nate - the edges on that caligula need more attention...love the bulbous arm on that guy hehe
Bust Study of Claudius - Sorry, went about hour and a half on this one. Doesn't really look anything like the original either LOL.
GO GO Crappy Crits!!
Jon - Thanks man, I didn't even realize how poorly I treated the edges in that one until you pointed it out. I was trying to be a little more aware in this one.
Good drawings though Jon, hopefully your really taking in how these arms and limbs are put together. Work as much on the memorization of them as anything else when copying them. Keep working on your pencil shading as well, really practice using those marks to reinforce the form.
Mike - Thanks. Yeah, some parts came off Axis and crashed. Try to find some good skull reference or buy a skull or find internet images or something. While it's good to try to work these things from imagination, I find when it comes to trying to do straight, accurate anatomy, It is best to work from life or reference and then turn around and practice memorization of it. Seeing if you can draw the skull in a different angle without reference or even reproducing the same angle you drew earlier without the reference. It's good to see you putting the puzzle pieces together though. Just keep working on them.
Steak - Thanks man, any issues pop up that may need attention your noticing?
Josh - LOL, thanks.
Burning Eyes - Thanks.
threw a sound effect in there to give people something interesting to look at. wasn't feeling this one...nothing really to say today, good to see you back jon. thanks for all the help nate, you're like my big art brother. can we ride the merry go round? wanna play tag?
oh crap mike I forgot to put your critique in that post...doh...sorry about that well here it is...for what it's worth hehe.
I've noticed on your skulls that you are drawing the center line which is good but I notice that everything to the far side of that center line tends to look too "straight on"...like your brain is fighting with you to make it as it actually should look. What I mean by that is for example...in some of your drawings we should see less of the eye socket that is the back...or the cheek bone, etc... but on your drawings you have sketched them more straight on. Another example is the drawing you just posted...look at the guys left arm...the arm on the right for the viewer...that is coming forward a lot but it should really be falling back in space. In a need to find an easier perspective your brain brings it to the front even though it doesn't look right. I find this happening to me ALL the time. My brain wants to make it an easier perspective for some reason...it's weird. I think drawing through the form would really help. If a bunch of the arm is obscured by the chest than make it that way. I hope that made sense? I will post later tonight after my hour...peace. Sorry I missed you the first time...your critique was in my brain though if that helps heheh
Dude that sound effect RULES...my next drawing will have a sound effect for sure...rock on!
yeah, its a jetpack.
nate-lookin good man. i dont have any crits for you, but ill be sure to let you know when i do
jon- thanks, you're right. thanks for pointing it out. i'll try and keep that in mind, hopefully i can mentally defeat myself.
on yours, first off, jeff (watts) was saying bridgman was a bad person to copy from. structurally, and for understanding, his drawings are great, but he was really sloppy. Alot of those drawings were done with a piece of charcoal on the end of a 6 foot long stick on a pad of paper on the cieling. however, ive drawn several sketchbooks full of bridgman, so take that with a GIANT grain of salt. one thing, you can learn some about directional strokes by the way he made the marks. I know thats something you could be working on at the same time if you pay attention and try and duplicate his marks as well as his drawings. Jeff recommends Vanderpoels Human Figure book (5 bucks) or Loomis. missed you today, no hurt feelings...
may the Bible Gladiator post more tomorrow!
Mike - LOL, nice. First drawing Mike, work on the hand and elbow. The hand looks like a Mickey mouse glove and the elbow is a noodle. Like the sound effect though, I needed one in mine. The Jetpack one is looking good. Only area that is slightly bugging me is the chin, looks like the head perspective may be slightly off as it looks like a squashed head from that angle.
Good work though man, good to see you really going at it.
Jon - ??
The bible gladiator is here...oh yeah
Man talk about frustration...my brain won't do what I want it to do.
Mike - That jetpack is awesome...one thing I have noticed about you is that I feel that you have no limits...you just draw whatever and you have no regard for whether you can do it or not...don't lose that for sure! I think it's the same issue as the last time with this one...I can see your brain struggling to get the perspective right...man alive when I did this last set of drawings my brain was fighting me...it's so annoying. But I agree on the bridgman thing...I like him for some things but the lack of info and sloppiness is definitely apparent. Nate turned me on to kevin chen so that's who I am looking too now hehe. But anyways yeah the perspective is off in this last one...the torso looks straight on but the jetpack looks tilted a bit back and so on. Keep it up man.
Nate - Dude that thing scared me seriously. That thing is awesome...super freaky. Ugly as anything sheesh and those teeth heheh. One thing that distracts me is the shadow under the cheek bone on the left it's a bit harsh and seems way too dark. All the sockets also look a little too dark for me...I think you would see more inside probably. Awesome though...now do it in 3/4 perspective hehe.
bonus points if anyone guesses the inspiration
jon- you're right man. HOLY SHNIKES! THAT SOUND AFFECT IS THE COOLEST!! One thing that might help you...at least, it helped me. study the individual parts seperately. The first book I drew through was The Human Machine, by bridgman. its got all the parts laid out individually. then when i went to draw the whole, i had already drawn the parts, so i had a better idea how they fit together, general shapes, etc. i mean, you've got torsos, and arms, and legs all over the place. piece yourself around, get comfortable with little bits. I'm still doing it, im working on the head now, and the neck some, and easing my way into the torso and arms....(notice you never see me draw any legs or feet?)
nate- creepy dude. i agree with what nate has said. I saw the abyss in his nose. you might want to watch the overhung lighting of the zygomatic on the right side....i think a little more of the jaw would be in shadow....but. i suck, so who knows...
edit: snap! i just realized i did the thing with the head size again. i gotta watch that some more....more studies too.
Last edited by jetpack42; November 10th, 2004 at 04:25 AM.