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Thread: Discussion: What's really more important to you?

  1. #14
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    one2hit, that color theory tutorial is one of the sticky threads over in the life drawing/techniques section. Although there is one pic I couldn't seem to find, I'll include it here, it includes that color=value quote.

    Discussion:  What's really more important to you?
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  3. #15
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    Most people learn and understand values way before they even think about deep color theory. I've been strictly graphite for all of my 16 years of life (well as long as I could draw) and since I have a good grasps of value I just add a little color on it and it comes out nice. The colors could be crazy and people will still love it but the day you show values out of whack your considered an amateur. So I'd say stick with monochrome and when you start really thinking about color use completely different colors that you can distinguish the colors. Because In my oppinion much of the best painting and artwork could have been done with only one color and still would look almost as good as the original.
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  4. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sula_nebouxi
    Although there is one pic I couldn't seem to find, I'll include it here, it includes that color=value quote.

    Does that not make any sense to anyone else?
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  5. #17
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    He's saying that he could not find the picture that has a quote at it in the bottom (the quote contains the phrase "color = value") in the color theory thread posted by Fredflickstone. Since he couldn't find it in that thread, he posted the image here just to make sure that we could see it, and understand what he's blabbing about, lol. Not sure where he found it though. Thanks much Sula.

    back on topic maybe?
    N & B

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  6. #18
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    lol thanks one2hit, maybe next time I won't post when I'm half-asleep...
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  7. #19
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    Well your teacher is right in the sense that if you do see the right colours your painting will work. If you can capture that dark greenish pink on the shadow side of a face and put it in your picture, and it works, it's because the value of that colour is correct in it's relation to the other values in your picture... and not necessarily because you have green and pink in there. I'm not sure if she's placing the importance on the value within the colours (you tell me, since I'm only going by what you've said). I can relate to you if this is confusing, since in one of my early painting classes a few years back my teacher constantly talked of warm and cools, demonstrating warms in the light and cools in the shadows, and talking about bits of warm in the shadows and bits of cool in the light... being an inexperienced artist, it was enough to make my head spin. Many of us in the class started to go mental and use every colour on the wheel when painting a face, because he talked of warms and cools so much. What he failed to enforce and remind us about was how value relates to colour.

    Value shows form. Form is the most important thing. Unless you're meaning to make your picture completely flat for stylistic reasons, showing form should be necessary. Value is what shows form. Light in the light side, dark in the dark side. The lightest part of the dark side is not lighter than the darkest part of the dark side. It doesn't matter what colours you're using, if the values are not showing proper form, your picture will be a mess. Value is the most important.

    But all of this talk of value doesn't mean colours aren't important. Even in that Nerdrum picture with a limitted palette there is a thousand things going on with the colours. Colours add another dimension of life to a picture.
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  8. #20
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    color=value because every color also has a base value. You can have a red and a green that are the same value but it'll take some mixing away from pure pigment to find it. If you compare the color wheel that sula posted, Ron is telling us that green is intrinsicly lighter than red.

    Don't worry about being color blind, it is much more important to have good values. Having "accurate colors" only matters if your primary purpose in painting is replicating nature perfectly. But natural colors change as the color of the light illuminating them changes, it's the relationships between them that matter the most and the strongest part of color relationship is VALUE.

    Read everything Ron writes about color he's the master here.
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  9. #21
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    This one is slightly OT, but I felt like I should ask it. What do you guys think about mixing black to get shades, or darker values...do you use black or do you create a neutral grey and use that? My teacher keeps saying it's some kind of "no-no" to mix blacks with color...and I'm sort of confused about that, because I can't see any other way to get it down. I feel like I should be in an art school for this right now, because I don't really feel like I'm being taught, or given any attention of proper feed back with the things I produce.
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  10. #22
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    I try not to use blacks too much. Personally I think it has too much tinting power. Even a little bit of black can make something really dark(an probably end up screwing up the color). I find that using the complementary colors works a little better. I add the complement little by little till I get the shade I want. It works pretty well.
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  11. #23
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    One2hit-- Hey I'm colorblind too, I have known about it all through out my educational career, here is what I have learned... #1. Dont tell your teacher. Its been my experince that most teachers, even in college, have no idea what colorblindness is or how to help you with it. #2 Dont tell other kids. About 100% of the time kids will say "really! What color is my shirt?" And I will correctly say yellow, and they say "Your not colorblind, stop kidding around." #3 Download this program WhatColor? It should help you with your digital work. And remember even if you have trouble with hue you can still play around with value, and color temperture, and saturation (intensity). So have fun.
    “Figure out what you wanna do, then take a nap.”
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  12. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faxtar
    One2hit-- Hey I'm colorblind too, I have known about it all through out my educational career, here is what I have learned... #1. Dont tell your teacher. Its been my experince that most teachers, even in college, have no idea what colorblindness is or how to help you with it. #2 Dont tell other kids. About 100% of the time kids will say "really! What color is my shirt?" And I will correctly say yellow, and they say "Your not colorblind, stop kidding around." #3 Download this program WhatColor? It should help you with your digital work. And remember even if you have trouble with hue you can still play around with value, and color temperture, and saturation (intensity). So have fun.
    Yeah, this guy had a riot when I told him I couldn't tell the difference between this orange color, and this green one...The fact is, they were the same value and looked 100% the exact same color to me. He was rolling around like he couldn't believe...what a dork. Anyways...I really need some help here...this teacher is driving me bananas...she's not helping me ever since I told her (blah blah) and I'm having a beyond difficult time mixing colors...I threw a green into my skin tone today, when I ment to use red...guy had barf on his cheeks.

    I've read all of Fred's color tutorials about 4 or 5 times, wait....that's a lie, it's more like 3. They are very informative, Are there any other sites where I can find information about setting up the pallet, and especially mixing color? I swear...I can not mix, I get dirt every time. I would blame this on my eye-sight, but I think this is just a matter of being "green". I don't have a bad attitude about this, it's just frustrating...I would really like to enjoy painting.

    Thanks so much people :
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  13. #25
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    About mixing with black--it's not always a good idea because black is so dark and can be hard to control. Mixing a gray and using that is a lot easier IMO. You can mix the right value in gray, then add it to your color. I find this is better than just mixing and thinking, "Dang, that's not dark enough" or "Crap, now I made it too dark."
    Also, your teacher may be discouraging using black because a lot of new painters make the mistake of mixing all their shadows using black rather than looking at what the color really is (for example, a blueish shadow).
    I have a question. Are you laying out your colors on your palette in the same order every time? This can often stop problems with accidentally using the wrong color. If you know that your red is always third from the left, it will probably help decrease these kinds of mistakes.

    emily
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  14. #26
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    emily g beat me to the punch about palette lay-out, defintely keep that highly structured the same way each time. If you use a hard palette, you might even want to put labels on it until the color order is habitual.

    Ron has a really good lesson about that too, I think it might be in the life painting thread. I'll take a look when I get home from work and link it up here.

    Something that works for me is to do a full-value pencil drawing and then after scanning it in, figure out what I want to use for a color scheme with transparents before going to opaque. I construct the whole image with color as a secondary step to reinforce the forms and composition I built with value. I don't do this when working from life, cause all the values and colors are there for you to choose from, but I find it very helpful when making an illustration from imagination.
    bee-dubya-keo
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    http://brendankeough.com/

    East meets West sketchbooks:
    Helzon - R.I.P. Redehlert Undertow Sartell BDFoster Anticonnor

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