Results 1 to 26 of 26
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    6,033
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 221 Times in 95 Posts

    Question DSG - how to make it better?

    mk., a member at ca.org recently sent me a pm...

    He took part on some DSG-topics but noticed, that most people just post their images without giving any crits or comments for the images...

    He would like to see some pro's going through the threads regularly to help the artists in the DSG...

    I know that DSG actually started with this mentality, people entered the irc-channel and were excited shortly before the daily topic was chosen, after that they talked about the topic, what they want to do and then after posting some images, people commented and discussed the artwork...

    So this was the beginning...i have to admit, that i don't know what the situation for the dgs is now, but i think the irc-channel thingie isn't used anymore for the dsg...

    So...what could we do to get more involvement into the dsg...any suggestions? (this question was asked several times before i know, but it seems that there is a need to change this)

    My suggestion is to open a DSG-channel in irc...so every member who wants to join the fun can enter this channel and speak with other dsg-doing members...


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    569
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Well, for starters better topics would help. I've tried to do the DSG every day for about the last month or so, but recenlynone of the topics are that inspiring. They're generally too specific and basically the same (winged humaniod this, viking that, dragon destroyer of the realm of fantastic vegetable gardens theother...) which just makes enjoying it a real trial. When decent open ended topics are up more people seem to get involved.

    If the incentive of doing the DSG is to improve drawing or art skills...hows about some less 'concept' driven idea's also...like find an object in your line of sight now, pick it up and draw it....or draw your foot....I dunno...but something everyone can crit...

    ...and then...well there are no real crits in the DSG right now, and I don't know how we could introduce them again, but they would be greatly appreciated I'm sure.

    Would it be possible to have a daily vote on which piece has the most improvement...or something like that....that might inspire people to join in...a little light competition...

    Anyway, just throwin in ideas...
    daily sketchbook

    You need to do more anatomy...and check your values....wait...did I just say that?
    [lowpolymatt]

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    HAIKU, HI
    Posts
    206
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Yeah, I think the topics are too specific.

    Maybe have themes for different days? Like monday is landscapes, tuesday is villians, ect. And at the end we all compile them into something bigger. Kinda like mad libs.

    Or maybe keep the theme so open that the viewers can find their own image content. I liked the the topic, "Death" that we had over a year ago. We had characters, expressions, a landscape, ect. It was interesting.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Sarasota/Bradenton
    Posts
    170
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I would love to see topics more on drawing from life, or do this drawing and use this specific medium. Do concept art ofcourse but sometimes do like you would get it at a job. Fairly specific, little more description. Another one could be do not a complete drawing but a thumbnails, storyboards. Sometimes allow it more then 1 day but with stages of progression like 1 day its thumbnail sketches, people pitch it, then you go from there and turn it into final kickass drawing.
    Just a thought.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    GA and the world
    Posts
    4,500
    Thanks
    65
    Thanked 122 Times in 63 Posts
    This may be a stupid suggestion, but there are random noun generators out there (eg. here and here) where the subjects could be much more broad (diplomat vegatable, ). I think this would help getting us out of Rutville, New Rut County, North Rutland (over the Rut River from Rutborough). I've found that my figure drawing improves after a stint doing something else.

    I would also request making the posting time limits a little less restrictive. As I mainly access the forums during my breaks at work, I can't see the subject, draw, and post in the same day.

    In order to gain more interest in C&C-ing the posts, perhaps make it a requiremnent to make one constructive comment about the previous piece in your post (if you're the first, hit the previous day's). There may also be some value in having someone "adopt-a-thread", where a number of volunteers pick certain days (in the future) and comment on each piece that day. With a dozen members, it wouldn't be too bad.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    569
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    My wife just made a very good point about the DSG.

    Right now it's a place where anyone can go to sketch be it a finished piece or a scribble. Some of the artists who participate can spit out fantastic pieces in no time and others labour over pieces which dont come close.

    The point is though that as it's an ungoverned and un-critted area. People feel free to put up whatever they've done regardless of quality or time taken and so on. If it became a 'heavily critted' area, you may well push a lot of those people away.

    If the DSG is about getting people to draw on a daily basis, I think doing anything to change it too much will be detrimental to it's success.

    If people want crits, they can make a daily sketchbook or Put work in the finally finished area. But the DSG works because it's a bit of fun and something to get your creative juices working, not because it's a place for only good 'crittable' art....

    I think it would drive a lot of people away if it changes too much from its current formula.
    daily sketchbook

    You need to do more anatomy...and check your values....wait...did I just say that?
    [lowpolymatt]

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    569
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Fair dues Mike, but...

    1. Should there be winners? Is it about being the best or just about one of two things....enjoying it, and improving your art...
    I just think making it a contest will drive a lot of people who aren't professionals away from the DSG...and that is a real big shame imo.

    2. What about the people who only get 20 mins before work and so on....in a contest situation of this sort once again it'll stop people wanting to get involved.

    The DSG to me is about getting my creative juices going. I look forward to finding out what it is when i get to work...I think about it till lunch sometimes, then scribble what I can in the time I have. I don't really care about 'winning' or being judged or anything like that. I just want to draw and see what everyone else comes up with. Seeing the results is the exciting bit, not the scores...

    Anyway, my 2p's worth...
    daily sketchbook

    You need to do more anatomy...and check your values....wait...did I just say that?
    [lowpolymatt]

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    569
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKECORRIERO
    Lowpollymatt- you make valid points but " I just want to draw and see what everyone else comes up with" you can still do that. Just because it would become a "contest" in some ways, it doesn't mean people can't enjoy just sketching the topic and submitting it.
    The things is, A BIG PART of what stops me from wanting to participate in the DSG is the lack of motivation, people post " 10 min. sketches" whether thats all the time they have to contribute or not, what's the point of posting something that is a Rushed job, so much so that people always make the excuse of.. " sorry, only had 5 minutes to sketch today" and then post something that looks like it took "5 minutes". I don't see the "gain of experience in that" ..I'm sure it's "fun" but Ive seen too many people post images that look like thier unhappy with it, like they didn't try, like they just don't even care, like thier moving backwards instead of improving.

    So if anyone has an idea of how to keep the "fun" factor for those who aren't professional than please post it. I would think, the chance to go up against professionals would be motivation to kick your butts into gear and work harder, improve..try to get on top

    Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the DSG should just be a place to post Whatever you want, with crits or no crits, 5 min. sketches, 5 hour finished pieces, random topics.. " 3 headed chicken" etc etc. To me..the way it is right now seems like nonsense
    Some of the people who do the DSG don't do it to win, don't need a competition. You say you can still do that...well you can do that NOW.....Why don't you submit right now? Because you'd 'beat' everyone? So...? If art is just about winning then thats a real shame.

    I have a job, I work for EA, every day I go to work and spend 10 hours a day doing this kind of thing. 3d/2d anything...The DSG is a light entertainment for me, some days I have time, others I don't. If it becomes a competition it WILL drive those people who dont have much time away. Guaranteed. Plus this forum (The DSG) is a place for all Levels, the moment it becomes a contest those who aren't as good or who don't get much time will get the short strawer....and ultimately they'll stop posting.

    Not everyone has the time you have to draw constantly. Try and remember that and consider it when you say what YOU want...Im trying to see this from the POV of all those who currently post in the DSG, not what I want...
    daily sketchbook

    You need to do more anatomy...and check your values....wait...did I just say that?
    [lowpolymatt]

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    179
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    to be honest, I think you lost a lot of people when the DSG bot was down and then on the fritz for ages, and then when the DSG started working again, the topics were always kinda similar and specific. I think a lot of people moved to CGtalk's daily sketch because it seems more organized and they've got voting every week with a winner of sketch of the week. Now people really give crits over there.

    I'm not trying to rip on CA's DSG, I'm just telling you where I think you lost a lot of people. You lost me after the DSG bot kept going down.
    Adventure Dog: my work

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    6,033
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 221 Times in 95 Posts
    Hmmm....interesting suggestions there you have...

    I am with Mike, when he complains about rushed jobs, which look like crap...actually i sometimes looked in some dsg-threads and my motivation to take part maybe next time was changing with the quality of the posted works...e.g. when i see many pro's posting to a popular subject i get motivated, thinking "whooaaa...next time i have to participate"...but then again when i look at dsg-threads with sloppy, rushed "not-worth-posting" images, i am in a mood like "hmmm...why did they post these...this isn't fun to join"...

    So, the key is in my eyes, to get some pro's or skilled (however you call them) artists into the dsg...

    Another key was as i said at the opening-post the irc-channel...it was amazing how people went into the channel and discussed about the topic and the posted images...there were many members who entered ca.org only because of this activity of dsg in the channel...

    I really like Mike's idea of the WINNERS THREAD...something to look through and get motivated...

    lowpolymatt, i see your point about the issue, that if the reason for participating is winning could be a shame...but don't forget, many members complained about TD7 not to be judged yet...they participated, they had fun, but they need a result...like playing football, basketball, soccer or whatever is fun, but it's 10 times more fun to play with points/goals...

    I don't think that people will stop doing dsg if we add some competition flavour to it...

    The DSG was time restricted, and it was also the problem of the dsg...some people have 10 hours for an image some have only 10 minutes depending on their free time...but this can't be solved, at least not in a way with having as much participants as possible, and i think this is the most important point here...

    So lowpolymatt, you're right with your time argument...we even had solutions like european dsg and american dsg, just to give everyone the chance of doing an image in 1 hour...crazy, but we did! So there happened some really massive evolution on the DSG...and some things didn't work, so we skipped them...

    Now, let's discuss further, just to gather some ideas...

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Соединенные Штаты Америки
    Posts
    803
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 22 Times in 10 Posts
    since this IS a concept art site...

    why not do week-long projects?

    like, monday through friday, start with rough sketches and studies, and by the end of the week have a sorta finished or polished piece. but you can't just work on the same piece every day. you gotta do the parts in order, too.

    so monday you work on a bunch of shapes for the character, then the next day you finalise the design, then the next day think up an environment to put it into, then blah blah

    OR,

    have very, very broad topics that the artist can interpret their own way. things like 'the smell of sunshine' or 'bubblegum penny' -things that people can interpret however they want to. should loosen it all up, you know?
    ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    in my head
    Posts
    81
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I like the short time frame of the DSG.
    I also see that it can be motivating for people to win something. I dont care about that, it is not in my intresst to win something, i do it for me. But if it motivates others to join in... why not?
    One problem sure is you cant make it perfect for everyone. But thats why we are here. Together we can dicuss and find a solution that could at least be a good compromise for all.

    I would like to learn something. Even in short sketches you can learn something, proportions, visualisation and so on. Thats why i would love to see more critics in the DSG. It would be even better if some "pros" do the critics. But I have seen some problems on other boards when to much people are cirizing each other, because some people dont like being criticised by non-professionals (beginners).

    edit: about the topics. Sometimes it is good that you have a very specific topic. Like paint a flower or a portrait of XYZ. This way you are forced to do something that you maybe dont like to do. I remember many topics at the school of art i didnt like. But funny thing... i had to use them later (say: Typographic stuff, portraits, perspective drawings)
    Last edited by mk.; October 13th, 2004 at 04:49 AM.
    :..::..::...::::.::::::::...:..:...:

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    476
    Thanks
    48
    Thanked 42 Times in 19 Posts
    Bring back 1 hour limit. Bring back the emotion. That would be 1 hour when a lot of people get together on IRC doing the same thing
    Make a wider choice of themes. Random word generators seems really fine! Let´s see what can you make of something like 'circular apathy'
    And for me, forget about competition. It's just me, I know, but I find rather silly all this obsession to compete (Thunderdome included)

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    179
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I second the motion that a weekly "project" group would be awesome in addition to the DSG. It could be like what Rick Hershey was trying to do in the Sketches forum - but it would be better if it were more official. For the WPG (as I will now call it ) you could have two threads per week, one for WIPs and one for finals. You could get a really broad range of assignments for that and it would be great practice. It would be awesome if you could get pros to write out some of the types of briefs that they've had (again, like rick hershy's thing), on a range of subjects.

    oooo... that would be so cool.
    Adventure Dog: my work

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,212
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 436 Times in 86 Posts
    Squirpy's right. The Daily Sketch Group went into decline when the DSG bot malfunctioned a few months back, and has never recovered. I have to say that I was very surprised at how long it took to bring the DSG bot back to life ( though I acknowledge mtomczek's efforts during that time ) - it seemed to me that the CA.org administration didn't really care about the DSG. A feeling which was reinforced when the new site arrived and the link to the DSG in the banner at the top was removed.

    How to improve it?

    More active community. If the DSG is there to promote learning, people should be encouraged to leave crits and comments on posted images. If you're not looking for constructive input, why are you sharing your work with the community?

    More varied subjects. It's great to have topics suggested by DSG'ers, but some recent topics have become a bit obscure. Perhaps throw in some more structured exercises alongside the open-ended and imaginative topics? Nothing too heavy, but subjects that explore basic principles such as perspective, composition and so on. Rick Hershey's 'art assignments' that Squirpy mentions would also be a great addition.

    Less doodles. I agree with Mike that there doesn't seem to be much value in posting a 5 or 10 minute scribble. 'It's all I had time for...' Well, that's great - all time spent drawing is time well spent, but what do you hope to gain by sharing it? No one's going to be able to offer a useful comment on such an image, and it's making the place look untidy.

    Voting. Personally, I think this is slightly against the community spirit that the DSG should have, but I also think it could be a great motivational tool to allow people to vote on their favourite piece for that day's topic, or maybe for the week, and collect these into a 'winners' thread, as Mike suggested.

    Promotion! Put the DSG link back on the forum banner, or somewhere on the main page. Anything to encourage more traffic and therefore, hopefully, more participation...

    Active moderation. I don't know who's 'in charge' of the DSG at the moment, and I mean no disrespect to whoever it is, but I think more active moderation is the key to reviving the DSG - we need someone who can promote the DSG around the rest of the site and beyond, organise some CA.org 'celebrity' involvement, make sure those topics stay varied and interesting ( no 'tree' themes four days running... ), and keep the threads free of inappropriate art and comments. Ideally, this person ( or group of people? ) would also be a regular contributor, and able to stimulate a 'comments culture'...

    Yes, I know I'm mostly just re-stating what others have already posted.

    The DSG was my main motivation for joining ConceptArt.org over a year ago. I'd love to see it restored to it's former glory.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Oregon State
    Posts
    118
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Dixon
    Promotion! Put the DSG link back on the forum banner, or somewhere on the main page. Anything to encourage more traffic and therefore, hopefully, more participation...

    The DSG was my main motivation for joining ConceptArt.org over a year ago. I'd love to see it restored to it's former glory.

    Stumbling across the DSG was the same thing that made me fall in love with this community a couple years ago. Having something new to do everyday and share it with others is an awesome opportunity to share and learn. I agree witih Matt, it should definately be promoted better than it is now.

    -Scott Cook (<- can i change my user name to this instead?)

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Iceland
    Posts
    316
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 15 Times in 1 Post
    Mike has good points.

    I have tried to do dsg regularly, but often the topics havent appealed to me. (or no time becouse of school) I would like to see a time limit so i can push myself harder to get the image done.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    san francisco
    Posts
    2,443
    Thanks
    100
    Thanked 99 Times in 47 Posts
    I agree with those suggestions you've posted Mike, the DSG's a great concept that should get more attention and involvement.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    1,552
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    I myself personally like the way Conceptart is now, its like a school that Im going on my own and I get motivated and inspired to have this place here... even if nobody comments my works instantly it feels good to have a place to post your artwork and sense of "been monitored" well of course it motivates you also gradually to do better and better so that YOU WILL get attention and comments and crits, so rather that there is any competition I think that speaks for itself if somebody feels like commenting you or not or something like that, what I am basically saying here is that I totally love the way this place is now, its perfect, little bit chaotic melting pot where you find everything and everything possible and I wish that nothing is going to chance unless then of course if some proffessionals could be maybe having some threads at times where they are offering advices on particular areas of art, then that could be really cool !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    look I dont know why I love you I just do

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    179
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    When CGtalk started having voting, I was really against it. I thought it would be horrible and bring down the community spirit, but I was totally wrong, and I'm glad they have voting over there. People are really working to get better.

    so all of you who are against voting - it's not as bad as you think.
    Adventure Dog: my work

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    6,033
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 221 Times in 95 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Egets
    I myself personally like the way Conceptart is now, its like a school that Im going on my own and I get motivated and inspired to have this place here... even if nobody comments my works instantly it feels good to have a place to post your artwork and sense of "been monitored" well of course it motivates you also gradually to do better and better so that YOU WILL get attention and comments and crits, so rather that there is any competition I think that speaks for itself if somebody feels like commenting you or not or something like that, what I am basically saying here is that I totally love the way this place is now, its perfect, little bit chaotic melting pot where you find everything and everything possible and I wish that nothing is going to chance unless then of course if some proffessionals could be maybe having some threads at times where they are offering advices on particular areas of art, then that could be really cool !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    We are talking about reorganizing the DSG...and you?

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    6,033
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 221 Times in 95 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKECORRIERO
    #4: Time Limit: Cutting down on the time allowable is neccesary. The problem with this is as I said, you have people submitting 8 hours worth of work and others 8 minutes.
    Mike, how will you set the time limit? If you say a DSG topic will last 1 hour, you won't have much posts, people won't have the time exactly for this period on a day...see europe/us time-zone problem...or people being at work or school...if you say everyone shall post his work after one hour of working on it...this was the original intention but it didn't work as you see...
    Last edited by Fozzybar; October 14th, 2004 at 04:42 AM.

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    11,707
    Thanks
    2,091
    Thanked 11,435 Times in 2,935 Posts
    thank you all.


    j

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    10,007,461
    Thanks
    332
    Thanked 1,218 Times in 254 Posts
    the topics are coming for the suggested topic list thread in the dsg. I make up some myself to make it longer. i haven't read this full thread yet, so i'm sure there will be more to comment on

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,212
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 436 Times in 86 Posts
    I don't think there's any need to be too strict about the time limit; everyone works a different pace.

    It's important that any submissions are worked on long enough to thoroughly explore a topic / idea so that it can be effectively critiqued, but setting a time limit of some kind to encourage yourself to deal only with the important elements of your piece is also a very important part of the sketching / speedpainting process.

    For me, 60 minutes is about right for this kind of work, though sometimes things come together more quickly, or I might feel as if I want to push things a little further. As long as it's still a 'sketch', the precise time taken shouldn't really matter.

    ...and, as Fozzy says, each topic should be 'open' for the full 24 hours after it is posted to allow for people in different time zones, those who participate in their lunch break, in the evening etc. - our goal should be to make the DSG as accesible as possible to attract as many participants as we can.

  27. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    10,007,461
    Thanks
    332
    Thanked 1,218 Times in 254 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKECORRIERO
    " Next I'll be asking for a voice chat to be inserted directly into the dsg thread so that each artist could have daily discussions Live and a "professional" of the day who acts as a teacher would have a camera on him as he worked and demonstrates his technique and knowledge in the area of his expertise. blah blah blah lol"

    haha =)

    Well we do have a ventrilo server that anyone from the community can come on and use for multiple purposes.

Similar Threads

  1. How to make a perfect cube in perspective -- does this make sense?
    By nickbernstein in forum Art Discussions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: June 24th, 2015, 02:30 PM
  2. cant seem to make it
    By eptigo in forum Art Critique Center
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: May 13th, 2011, 12:10 AM
  3. SketchBook: is this all i need to make a SB
    By unit-tx-12 in forum Sketchbooks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: November 8th, 2007, 07:58 PM
  4. How to make this?
    By Kei-th in forum Photoshop
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: April 14th, 2006, 04:12 PM
  5. trying to make it look like a guy ^^
    By hp in forum Art Critique Center
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: March 27th, 2006, 04:23 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.