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  1. #1
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    tonights debate.

    i was wondering if anyone watched the kerry bush debate. from what i seen bush got a spankin by kerry. bush kept repeating himself as well. i would love to here a republican side of view on this! please post both party's.

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    i watched it.. bush was lost for word lots, it was funny

    i hope kerry wins

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    i watch some, and bush got in a few blows in there, but he talks like a fool so its hard to follow him at imes. i personally dont like Kerry, im not pro bush either. but i'd rather see bush go for another 4 yrs then see kerry in office.

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    The only thing I could picture is who would win in a fight if they both put pair of boxing gloves on right now.

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    i think most ppl, on either side, democrate AND republican, have a bad problem with being completely biased. I do not support either candiddate so here is my view:

    Bush started out very strong pointing out the flaws in everything Kerry was saying about the war being a mistake and how we have no allies. What an insult to places like Poland and Great britian. Unfortunaley bush didnt seem so articulated later and seemed repetative.

    Kerry has tons of great promises that will lead nowhere; two new branches of the military?! Where the fuck are the troops coming from for that - we are already undermanned. He also claims he will spend tons more money on several things. Where is that money coming from. He failed to explain HOW all of these great promises will become reality. I also feel his views with north korea are ridiculous; bush very truely stated that china has more sway than we do and we definatley want to keep them on our side, they are a world super power with 1/5th the worlds humans.

    Kerrys delivery was mush better, but that isnt what i look for in a president.
    I dont feel I can trust him one bit.

    Bush, I feel I can trust but I dont agree with him on many things.

    You know this is pretty unbiased, because im an not voting for either candidate.

    wow i just typed way more than i wanted to...

    BLAST ON YOU!
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    I am watching it right now. (They actually send a rerun of the whole damn thing here in norway.)

    I have just one thing to say: I am glad i don`t live in the united states.

    Oh, and one more thing: I recommend the album "war on errorism" by nofx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash
    I have just one thing to say: I am glad i don`t live in the united states.
    yeah...we're ahead of some people with that whole "right to vote" thing, but we're still waiting for some canidates to vote on...

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    Actually.. i thought the whole bloody thing was pretty abysmal. Everything from the uber-scripted agreement on stuff from podium height to reaction shots, to Kerry's lack-luster performance (in my opinion) to contrast in a positive way, Bush's "straight-talk" and "decisiveness." I paced the entire time yelling at Kerry to just speak his point, and drive home the whole "Just cause it?s decisive, doesn?t make it right" point. I thought things were going pretty sour. I was sure that there would be an instant bounce in Bush's favor, and I would have to immediately throw myself off my balcony much to the dismay of my girlfriend who counts on me for half the rent.. and a steady supply of fresh blood.

    ...then, I turned from CSPAN to CNN.

    Wolf Blitzer: "..Bush seemed irritated and uncomfortable"

    Judy Woodruff: "Indeed Kerry seemed much more in control...."

    Jeff Greenfield: "....I'm reluctant to use the word but he (Kerry) looked presidential"

    What the..?

    Then to MSNBC..

    Chris Mathews: "I don't know how anyone can deny that this was a good night for John Kerry"

    Joe "I'm a douchebag and was accused of killing my secretary" Scarborough: "I clearly think John Kerry came out the winner in this one"

    HOLY SHIT WHAT?! A POSITIVE MEDIA SPIN FROM THE MAJOR NETWORKS?! And Joe Scarborough wasn't even frothing at the mouth this time!

    Then I threw myself off the balcony in disbelief, hoping to wrench my brain from the obviously peach schnapps induced delusional state I was in, much to the dismay of my girlfriend.. and the cat I landed on.

    Then the fucking Gallup "We're obviously on meth and we're gunna call 1600 people 20 seconds following the debate" poll showing 41% of undecideds who watched the debate had a favorability increase for Kerry, while only 26% had one for Bush. Am I fucking dreaming? Jesus Christ.. It's actually turned back into a real race.. apparently... and much to my surprise.

    Ahh.. the power of lowered expectations.

    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

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    passed out right after words, i was doing shots of tequila everytime Kerry said, "My Plan" & "Vietnam"

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    i don't think i heard vietnam from kerry, i remember him saying 'the war' refering to vietnam, after they were talking about if the war was worth the death of american troops in iraq.

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    Kerry reminded of John goodman in big lebosky bringing up his war past every chance he could - even Clinton mentioned 2 weeks ago that he should stop focusing on vietnam. Yes he did serve and that makes him more understanding of what it is like to be in war, and he is more sympathetic to our troops, but that doesnt mean he will make a better president. Shit my uncle was messed up bad in vietnam, and that doesnt make me vote for him.

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    I've heard Kerry's handlers don't want him to say Vietnam anymore.... aparently people feal that being in a decades old war for 4 months doesn't automatically qualify you for the presedency...and it's pissing people off hearing about it endlessly.

    As for the debate....well if I was a terrorist I would love for Kerry to win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nardfrog
    Kerry reminded of John goodman in big lebosky bringing up his war past every chance he could - even Clinton mentioned 2 weeks ago that he should stop focusing on vietnam. Yes he did serve and that makes him more understanding of what it is like to be in war, and he is more sympathetic to our troops, but that doesnt mean he will make a better president. Shit my uncle was messed up bad in vietnam, and that doesnt make me vote for him.
    "Donny was a good bowler, and a good man. He was one of us. He was a man who loved the outdoors. And bowling. And as a surfer, he explored the beaches of Southern California from La Jolla to Leo Carillo and up to Pismo. He died, as so many young men of his generation, before his time. In your wisdom, Lord, you took him. As you took so many bright flowering young men at Ke Song, at Lon Doc, and Hill 64. These young men gave their lives, as did Donny. Donny who loved bowling."

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    wtf!?!?

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    Interesting...

    First off, I watched the whole debate. And I wasn't intoxicated.

    Secondly, I am neither Republican or Democrate. I personally feel that both parties are pretty well whacked. I've explained why before.

    Here's what I took away from the debates - the first things I recall from either candidate: Bush - "it's hard", Kerry - "Hope".

    Furthermore, Kerry was poised, succinct, direct and answered the questions put to him clearly, concisely and pointedly. If you had trouble following his answers, I suggest you quit playing video games, extend your attention span and buy a dictionary.

    Bush, our standing President, came on strong like he was reciting a memorized answer, which I have no doubt that he was. As soon as he was required to think on his feet, he stumbled time and again. His words were muddled, and he showed very little direct control of the situation, reacting to Kerry instead of acting. He spoke frequently about Iraq, even stating at one point that Iraq attacked us, which is a profound insight into his psychology.

    Bush also avoided the questions that were poised to him, fallling back repeatedly on character attacks on Kerry as filler for content instead of dealing with the question. His rebuttals did him more harm than good. He should have kept his mouth shut.

    The fact that people think that because the man is stubborn and unwilling to work with others makes him a great leader seriously worries me. My four year old is stubborn and often refuses to work with others. Does this make him a strong leader? Hell no. It makes him annoying as all get out, and often results in him screaming bloody murder in time out because he's gone off and hit someone just because he was upset.

    I recall the promises that Bush made before he took office. One of them was (as I paraphrase) was that any war that he took our country into would be carefully handled. I also recall him, as Kerry pointed out, saying that he would exhaust *all* venues before invading Iraq, and that invasion would only be a last resort. I also recall Bush doing a pre-emtive strike on Iraq because they had intelligence on where Saddam was. They missed, by the way.

    Interesting to note that Republicans like to downplay Kerry's combat experience, even bringing it into question. (Incidently, he didn't mention Vietnam by name last night). On a personal note, my father was in Vietnam. He was a Navy medic stationed with a Marine Company around Da Nang. I've seen first hand what combat does to people. I've known a lot of Veterns over the years and I have nothing but the highest respect for these people. Many of my friends were in the first Gulf War. One friend in particular faced off with two brigades of the Iraqi Republican Guard, and came away from it sans his tank and commander, both of which were blown to hell and didn't come back.

    Kerry has been though some kind of hell that very few of us can relate to. He's steady, he's intelligent, he's composed and in control of himself. He doesn't *react*. This impresses me.

    Bush has shown to me time and again that he is totally out of his league, and that he does not understand what he is doing nor does he comprehend the ramifications of his actions, and that the world will be dealing with his ineptness for decades. This truly saddens me.

    I could go on, and may later, God knows I haven't even touched on the state of our economy. But I think you understand what I'm saying. Let's mend some fences, pull the weeds and get the world back on track.

    I firmly believe that with the Bush administration in office for another four years our safety as a nation, and as a world will continue to deteriorate.

    We've seen what Bush can do. And it's not fitting the bill. Try something different, elect Kerry and let's see what he can do.

    Cheers,
    ~Oreg.

    PS - please take the time to read the whole post.

    Last edited by S.C. Watson; October 1st, 2004 at 01:48 PM.

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  17. #16
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    ill vote kerry if all the librals stop whining!!

    BLAST ON YOU!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nardfrog
    ill vote kerry if all the librals stop whining!!
    hey nard. That's, um, using them critical thinking skills there, bud
    ~Oreg.


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    c'mon oregano, there is nothing critical to think about when it comes to Bush and Kerry; Bush makes librals whine, Kerry doesnt. whining annoys nardfrog. the end.

    BLAST ON YOU!
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    haha - you're not alone there. Bush makes most conservatives whine as well!


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    I was a little dissapointed that there was no discussion on the Taiwan/ China issue. I would imagine this topic to be very important in the next few years.

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    There wasn't much of a debate. It was just broken records playing. I was hoping one of them would at least have some good comebacks, but Kerry really didn't make any strong attacks. All he kept saying was, "if you want a new direction follow me" But never even stated where that new direction was going. Bush just kept saying "we have to hang in there and not back down. "

    It was pretty boring to me.

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  23. #22
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    here is a really good article on how both of them lied or "streched the truth" last night.

    Its nice to have at least some of the facts right.....

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6144991/?GT1=5472

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    Quote Originally Posted by otis
    All he kept saying was, "if you want a new direction follow me" But never even stated where that new direction was going.
    On the contrary. Kerry laid out his plan, and directed people where to go to get more information.

    He said that he wants to hold a Middle East summit, better supply our troops in Iraq, contain nuclear proliferation in Europe and abroad, deal directly with North Korea, repeal the tax cuts, and start rebuilding American infrastructure.

    Bush however, did not put forth anything new.

    ~Oreg.


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    Quote Originally Posted by nardfrog
    here is a really good article on how both of them lied or "streched the truth" last night.

    Its nice to have at least some of the facts right.....

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6144991/?GT1=5472
    Interesting to note who screwed the facts up more. And while Kerry seems to have exagerated in places, Bush was down right wrong or totally off base several times.

    Kerry wasn't.

    ~Oreg.


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    Are you kidding!? Kerry's plans were vague and convoluted. He wants to have one on one talks with N. Korea (Tried and N. Korea just walks out) Everyone knows China has more pull n N. Korea than anyone. This is just plain stupid.....and hypocriticall for someone so against "Unilateral" anything. BS!

    Then he thinks we should have been the ones giving nuclear fuel to Iran. Ostensibly to make sure they weren't going to use it for weapons....... Well gosh Bill Clinton tried that with N. Korea and boy that sure worked out....

    But don't worry guys the communists lied to us about their intentions but I'm sure The no# 1 exporter of terrorism, Iran, won't. (Insert heavy sarcasm here.)

    BTW I've noticed most people who claim to be neither a Republican or a Democrat are pretty much Democrats, they just don't want to admit it for some reason. I'll admit it, I'm a republican and pretty proud of it. And I'm not so jaded as to believe that all polititions are evil and both parties are the same. I think that is just LAZY generalizing.

    You don't have to agree with me of course, no one will shoot you, that's the beauty of a democracy.

    Last edited by Mr. Pale; October 1st, 2004 at 03:18 PM.
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    oregano, you are making me sound like a bush supporter! Name one SPECIFIC of Kerrys "laid-out plan"! "Staying in Iraq and quickly training iraqis" dosnt count, we are already doing that. Not once has Kerry explained how he will do ANY of the great things he claims he will do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pale
    BTW I've noticed most people who claim to be neither a Republican or a Democrat are pretty much Democrats, they just don't want to admit it for some reason. I'll admit it, I'm a republican and pretty proud of it. And I'm not so jaded as to believe that all polititions are evil and both parties are the same. I think that is just LAZY generalizing.
    Don't have the time at the moment to respond in full to your post, but just for the record, I'm a registered Independent.

    I personally don't give a flying rip which party a candidate is from. I want to see someone who can think for themselves. At present, this nation doesn't have that. If Nader were a stronger contender, and I didn't think he would ultimately do more damage than good, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.

    Conversely, if McCain were running, and his opponent wasn't articulate and able to deal realistically with the current world politic, I would vote for him.

    Nardfrog, I'll get back to you man. I've got to get some painting done.

    Cheers,
    ~Oreg.


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    To me it doesnt matter really what Kerry has to say, I like his optimism, we'll see how it pans out. Anything beats having the neo-cons running our country. I'm not a registered Democrat or Republican, but you're right I'm probably a democrat. I prefer not to choose a particular side because I dont want to define myself as a person as "Democrat" or a "Republican", I like to be able to decide who is best for our country and not just vote for the "team". As for the whole he hasnt said how he's going to accomplish all the things he says he's going to, so what else is new? That's the way it has gone in every election. If you give people a lot of details and hypothetical plans then they will have a chance to scrutinize your errors and see your faults, so of course as a politician they are only going to give us rhetoric.

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    Some guy- Sorry I totaly disagree with you pretty much point by point. Not defineing yourself buy a party name just doesn't in my opinion grant somebody a moral highground. I think a lot of people think it does.

    Oregano- Hey I hope I didn't offend you with my statements, if I did then I apologize. I probably get a little more passionate about this subject then I should.

    Lets just say, gentlemen, on this subject we're just going to have to agree to disagree....God I hate that line, but it seems appropriate at the moment.

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