Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    934
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts

    Question What would it take for you to do free work???

    Honestly,

    Think about this now, after the initial excitement, promises, blah blah, what would it take for you to go pro bono on a long term project and actually stick with it??

    I think we can all agree that we have been asked to work for free, for the greater good of it becomming something huge yadadaadada. But what if? Is it just faith in the guys you are working with, the potential of you seriously benefiting financially, or it just being a sweet project to work on?


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,961
    Thanks
    1,343
    Thanked 1,308 Times in 307 Posts
    I've done a number of free projects and really none of them turned out as I originally hoped. This last one however took the cake. I don't think I need to go into it but let's just say that I've learned to value my time and work a little more. Honestly, I'm a full-time student with tuition and other expenses and I do not have the time to do work for free. You don't hire a plumber and offer to pay him only by "putting in a good word" with other people who have leaky pipes. You pay him fairly according to his expenses and time he invested to get the job done. Even the bad ones get paid.

    Mike C said something similar a while back and I know that some people can respond and say with some validity that there's good experience to be gained. I'm not saying there isn't. I'm simply saying that at this point, I personally, with my own expenses and full acedemic plate, can not afford to make any serious investment of my time without something to show for it.
    Last edited by N D Hill; September 26th, 2004 at 08:29 PM.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    On the fringes of "acceptable" observation and commentary.
    Posts
    2,347
    Thanks
    255
    Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Presence
    Honestly,

    Think about this now, after the initial excitement, promises, blah blah, what would it take for you to go pro bono on a long term project and actually stick with it??

    I think we can all agree that we have been asked to work for free, for the greater good of it becomming something huge yadadaadada. But what if? Is it just faith in the guys you are working with, the potential of you seriously benefiting financially, or it just being a sweet project to work on?
    There is a vast difference between working for free and doing work "pro bono."

    Pro bono work is that which is done for the public good. Just because you give away your time and effort for free does not mean you are doing so for the public good.

    As far as that goes, Pro bono should be one of the few times you DO give your work away for free. Helping your local school by designing the programs for the school play, or Homecoming, or the Kindergarden Spring Play...a flyer for the local Senior Center's Bingo night...Those are the types of work that anyone should gladly take on, not for notoriety, or for the practice even, but just for the chance to share your skills where it really counts and doing it really is Pro bono.
    Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional
    I am The Choosen One!
    Jason sez: Draw more from Life!


  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    179
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I'm doing work for free right now. I'm doing graphics for a plug in for Escape Velocity Nova. But it will never make any money, it's just for fun. It puts it kind of low on the priority list, though, since I've got schoolwork and stuff to compete with it.
    Adventure Dog: my work

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Lost in the Sound
    Posts
    4,646
    Thanks
    791
    Thanked 845 Times in 302 Posts
    What would it take for you to do free work???
    Money.

    Character of the Week :: A weekly character exploration activity.
    ____________________
    Other Weekly Activities: COW | EOW | IDW | POW
    ____________________
    Sketchbook | Finished Thread
    ____________________
    HIRE. ME. i draw stuff.
    FOLLOW ME. i blog stuff.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Malmö, Sweden
    Posts
    1,127
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I remember a thread about this a year ago.. most people agreed that working for free is OK, as long as you get oral sex.

    I prefer to work for money though.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Skeletronics Industrial Park
    Posts
    984
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    oregano - hilarious!

    I only did and do free work if I feel I will grow as an artist from doing it. ANd sometimes I dont even care if I get paid to do work, because as formentioned, it is making me a better artist. Ive done lots of free stuff and never expected money out of it.

    art is fun!
    BLAST ON YOU!

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    213
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I've worked on quite a few projects for free.... mostly mods and such. Most of the mods I've worked on have ended up dying off which is really annoying. I just like to know when I'm working on a game or mod for free that the team is serious about what it's doing.... that's really all I ask! So in the end I've worked on a mod that won mod of the month in PC Gamer and I still work on a game and engine with an awesome team which is getting some great press right now, and to me that is worth the time I agree with nardfrog too, anything that I think will help my portfolio or that I can learn from is well worth it

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kitimat, BC, Canada
    Posts
    899
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    I'd do stuff for free as long as it's possible to do it for free. If I'm making money...enough to live comfortably on(as in for another job), then doing stuff for free is the best...because then it's all about making success out of passion.

    Like Confuscious says, 'Life is work'. You don't get paid for 90% of the work you do. So long as I'm getting paid for enough of the work I do, I'll do everything else for free.

    -Rob
    My Sketchbook
    Encouragement keeps me swimming , even in the undertow of disappointment.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA US
    Posts
    1,127
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 78 Times in 51 Posts
    I think the only main reason I would do some free work would be to expand my portfolio or demo reel, course I'm not getting paid to do art at the moment. But, if there was a project that was definitely going to be badass in my mind and bunch of people were committed to making it happen no matter what, I think I would jump all over it (as long as I could pay the bills of course.) I know its not how the business works really.. but what if you had the chance to work on something like LotR but you had to do it for free.. I think I wouldnt care really . The joy is in the creation and if you are working on something you know thats going to be awesome, with a bunch of people that are just as passionate as you are, well it sounds like a lot of fun to me.
    Cave House Studios - creative animation and video
    What the Sketchbook

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,182
    Thanks
    524
    Thanked 320 Times in 90 Posts
    When I am more of a professional level artist.. I'd definitely still do work for free. I didn't get into art to make money (obviously.. who would?).. I'm more interested in creating amazing things, working on amazing projects. The deciding factor would probably be the people you would be working with. Obviously, doing art for random 14 year olds with no ambition isn't very appealing. But if it was someone talented and passionate about something, I'd wanna help them.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    1,104
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    if you havent established yourself as a professional artist yet.. mods is one of the best ways to enter the game industry.. its the cheapest form of relevant and aplickable game developement experience you can get...

    thats how i started out.. i did a bunch of doom and quake mods right out of high school.. anyone remember "Operation Bayshield"?? or diffusion?? that was us.. we later started a company.. the company made a small chunk of cash and then failed.. then i got a real job out of it..

    -Lono

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    10,007,461
    Thanks
    332
    Thanked 1,218 Times in 254 Posts
    then lono leaped off a cliff and hit his face on the water so hard that he lost all memory of these events.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    1,104
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    who am i?

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Соединенные Штаты Америки
    Posts
    803
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 22 Times in 10 Posts
    i'd do just about anything for a slice of birthday cake and a pack of cigarettes. oh, and a ripe orange. ... and oral sex is nice, too. except they have to use their tongue, or else it's just facehole sexoring. and that's pretty much the same as screwing a closed fist. which is fun, as long as it isn't yours. and they're sleeping. and they're in a coma. then when they come out of the coma you can tell them as you hand them some flowers. and then, you can try to shave their face with a cheese grater. Metallica lives under my bed.
    ░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,961
    Thanks
    1,343
    Thanked 1,308 Times in 307 Posts
    Does anyone else find what Bizarre says to be even funnier given his custom user title?...And then scroll up and look at Lono's.
    Last edited by N D Hill; September 28th, 2004 at 02:42 PM.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    934
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
    see guys I'll let you know where I am comming from here.

    I mostly screen write. I have been taking private art lessons since I was 8 years old but I am still drawn to writing (no pun intended), and because of that I don't put enough time behind the pencil.

    So here is my problem, things are really comming together with the screenplay in terms of knowing what I need for conceptuals but because I am a graphic and conceptual artist in my two free hours a month, lol, I know what it is like to be offered those "this could turn into something huge" proposals and I simply refuse to do that to anyone.

    I have been working on this for nearly five years now and I know "I" will stick with it, "I" will keep the gears turning in a sense but to offer the concept positions for this project and constantly have to email or call members of the production team to make sure they are still fired up, still finding time, still managing to balance this with their normal job/family/hobbies/life, scares the life out of me because I know the work they are doing is out of their own drive and passion even if it is portfolio related for them.

    I think what I am asking for here is a little insight as to how to keep things balanced, the type of schedule and deadlines we should place in this hypothetical team, and or your own experiences in what works and what does not.

    I need some serious advice here guys

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    187
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nardfrog

    I only did and do free work if I feel I will grow as an artist from doing it. ANd sometimes I dont even care if I get paid to do work, because as formentioned, it is making me a better artist. Ive done lots of free stuff and never expected money out of it.

    art is fun!
    you know Nardfrog..... if you would have gotten paid when you did those jobs, you still would have grown and become a better artist, PLUS, you would have earned some $$...

    "To all Artists: how good is your work, when someone expects you to do it for free?"

    "Never give away your art!
    -Victor Sepulveda

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    187
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Thank you Mikecorriero for that!, I agree 100%

    I think it's sad what happens to us as Artists, and it really makes me mad when I hear how one of my friends gets ripped off by one of this deals, expecting more work, or money down the line....but the worse thing is.... they themselves actually agreed to do it for free...they actually think it's helping them because they are learning new techniques, or they tried a new program, or a new medium. .... .... could you imagine what would happen if a plumber who makes a living off his work, finds out that another plumber in his area is doing the work for free, or at a super low unimaginable price, "because he loves plumbing"? there is no way he can compete with that!.... if he wants to keep getting work, he has to lower the price, or get fewer jobs!.....( by the way, you can replace "Plumber" with "waitress, cop, secretary"... etc.) this is what happens to me... I know of people who do the same kind of work that I do, for a lot less, and it's making it hard to get jobs.

    to those artists!, thank you for taking our work!

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    213
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Well, I agree with you guys that you shouldn't work for free or super cheaply when it's potentially taking away work from someone else....(heh, the problem for me is that I need to take a look at some good pricing guidelines!) But I don't see any harm in joining a team of artists on a project such as a mod or game.... especially for people just starting out as it's a great way to build experience and the old portfolio As I said earlier I'm working on a game right now which was one of those "we'll pay you once we get somewhere" kind of projects, but after seeing some of the work and talking with others on the team, I felt that these guys were serious and it would be worth my time to jump in and help out! So I'm working for free but it's not a job anyone would have ever been paid for anyway lol... I sort of see that as the same thing when a couple of pals get together and decide to open a business...... they may not make much at first, in fact they may be spending more than they're making, but you do it in hopes that someday soon, you can do what you love all day long and make a living at it!

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    934
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
    So Buff,

    You are saying it really does help to carry a common goal and drive? To keep that fire going? I realize that will be my responsibility to keep the vision but I just dont know where to draw the line if people are working out of their own passion and time while at the same time trying to keep somewhat of a schedule.

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    213
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I think so, Presence! But as leader of the project it would mainly be your responsibility to keep the focus and to motivate your team. I think in working with an online group, the hardest part is making sure everyone takes it seriously and keeps that common goal.... with the group I'm working with, we maintain pretty constant communication through IM, our forums, regular IRC meetings three times a week, and we keep all of our game assets in a centralized location... a twiki site we can all edit to comment on the artwork, etc. If I'm doing all this work for free, I just like to know others are just as excited and just as dedicated as I am... if I see signs that the group is falling apart, I get out..... fast

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    934
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 10 Times in 7 Posts
    Mike you are totally right and see that is the thing, I know that anyone at any type of a professional level including myself thinx exactly the same thing.

    I'll give you guys a little bg, I started this screenplay when I was 19 years old and I am about to turn 25, we are talking day in and day out in terms of putting this thing together.

    A friend of mine old me a few years ago that I mine as well hold off because they just could not pull off CG wise what I had intended for the action sequences, but now I just got the "You know what man, I think that they could actually do it now."

    So it is lighting a bit of a fire under me to start to group the right people together, and I want to take my time doing this, I just don't want to put out a call on the boards and hope for a volume of interest.

    But I am right back at my concern, to keep the ship heading north, a continual drive in the group to see this as to what it could really be. Then to ask for people to output professional level work on their own time is really difficult for me to ask for. I guess it is an ethical problem.

    I would like to compensate in every possible way I can though I simply can't do it on a monitary basis right now, I am up till 3am most nights because I honestly believe this has a chance, that this really is something new and could have a dramatic impact on the world of film.

    But the ship can't sail without a crew and if anyone has suggestions as to how I can keep the team compensated, driven etc I would love to hear it.

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    32
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I did some Pro Bono work for the AHA locally and I was able to deduct the time from my taxes. So I guess in a way I did get paid...

    I assumed that's how we all do it, but apparently not... Is it just because people don't know they can do it or does it have to be a certified non-prof organization? (i ususally let my accountant handle all these questions for me...yeah, I'm numerically challenged.)
    Thanks,
    Karen Montgomery

    http://home.comcast.net/~kali8/KDMIllustration/KDMIllustrations.htm

    http://home.comcast.net/~kali8/Electronic-Portfolio.htm

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    213
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Of course not....... Which is why I was saying that I will only help out a group whose work I believe in and who I think is going to follow through with it. Most of them, you're right, they're crap, and they fall apart within months.

    And sure you can gain experience from a paying job just as easily, but those paying jobs are obviously very hard to find. I looked for over a year to find my first paying job in the industry.... meanwhile, i was working for free on mods and such to build my portfolio. I could texture at the time, but couldn't model.... by helping out on a mod I was able to add several nice models to my portfolio. And quite a few companies say you need experience.... some of them say modding counts as experience. I learn better by doing rather than asking questions, so it was a better experience for me to get in there and work with an actual gaming project. I don't feel the last year and a half working on a game for free has been a waste of my time......we have some amazing demos and have been contacted about our work by some pretty big names in the industry. Something that wouldn't be happening at this point if I were on my own. I feel lucky to be a part of this group. In this type of project, what's the difference between what I'm doing and someone getting together with some friends on a collaboration piece? They dont pay each other..... they work together to come up with something great that wouldnt be the same without each of their input. I don't work for free if some random guy emails me and asks me to paint some textures.... I send him my rates. As for modding and that kind of thing.... I consider that sort of practice. It's hard to know where to draw that line, I know....I guess what I'm saying is that if I can see the value in doing it, then it's worth it.

Similar Threads

  1. Before you ask for, or consider doing, work for free, read this
    By Elwell in forum Artists Available for Work!
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: January 13th, 2013, 03:00 PM
  2. Willing to work for free for more experience
    By Sagil in forum Artists Available for Work!
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 25th, 2011, 05:37 PM
  3. Don't Work for Free!!
    By Nerahla in forum Artist Lounge
    Replies: 107
    Last Post: June 10th, 2011, 08:04 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: October 29th, 2010, 02:06 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.