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September 18th, 2004 #1
Update August 25 | Blackhawks' Crap
Hey everyone. I think some of you may know me from the self-portrait thread, well, I've been on a hiatus, just started studying at Pantura studios in mid-august and have had a lot of stuff taking up my limited time. I just wanted to pop in and say hi and show what I've been working on these last 4 weeks or so. This is my first out of three Barque drawings I have to do. It's to about 99% completion. It's not perfect by any means. It was an incredibly time consuming exercise, I made a few mistakes on it that I hope not to repeat on my next two. I finished this drawing over the course of about 4 weeks. This was done using an H pencil.
This is the end of the first stage. Just trying to establish a solid silhouette to the drawing before I moved inside. We weren't allowed to touch the inside until the outside of yours looked like the outside of the original.
Trying now clearly define the shadow shapes. Right now they are just being roughed in in this picture. Unfortunately I had no camera for the subsequent stages after this where I had to refine those shapes. I'll try to get those on the next one.
Shadow shapes in, first tone down, started a little modelling on the inside. At this stage it's just an overall tweaking. I had to constantly measure and fix shapes while modelling. Next time I'm going to try to fix the shapes a little more before moving this far, it was rought.
About 99% done here. Some shapes in the bottom portion need tweaking as well as in the shoulder area. Overall the impression is there, it's not 100% perfect, but I learned quite a bit on this one. Hopefully I can do much better on this next one.
Sorry about the poor pictures. Lighting was overkill in the first two for just the lines and then the light washed out everything on the last two. If you want details, let me know.
Last edited by Blackhawk; August 25th, 2008 at 10:23 PM.
Hide this ad by registering as a memberSeptember 18th, 2004 #2
crap is the word. Its good to see what you've been up to. 4 weeks man, you are patient! But from what I heard from Jon...Hans is a real slavedriver! Thanks for posting this up, I'll be checking back for some more updates. I'm going to start a regular sketchbook in 3 weeks when I get down to Watts.
Any word on SanFran from you and Jon?
September 18th, 2004 #3
The H pencil is deadly!!
Good stuff, I remember doing the female one of the back. I can appreciate the hardwork put in for sure
Good to see another barguer and serious student pursuing the proper training to become a master
September 18th, 2004 #4
BH great to see your Atelier stuff man! I'm excited to see more.
September 19th, 2004 #5
Great work blackhawk. Remember though its not about being perfect, its about learning. As long as you keep learning thats all that matters. If it came out perfect and you learned nothing from it then it didnt mean crap. Anyways, get your ass back to the self portrait section!!
September 19th, 2004 #6
September 19th, 2004 #7
Jetpack - Probably no San Francisco for me unless I can get sponsored or win the lottery, rob a bank, steal a bike, mug a few old ladies, sell my body, or any combination of thereof to get some extra cash. As it is now my budget is way too tight to fly to San Francisco and attend the workshop, even though I'd absolutely love to. I don't think it will happen.
Endregan - Thanks. Yeah, the H is deadly. When I was told to use an H2 or an H, I was like "What? No, serious, nah!!" I was just so used to the HB+ stuff that I had no idea the kind of range and control an H has. Do you happen to have a picture of the one you did, I'd love to see it.
Groover - Thanks man. I'm going to try to get more, can't promise much since it takes so long to do these. What I'd like to do is just some regular or twice weekly updates of my progress. This one should be done by Monday. I've already noticed a few more problem spots since looking at it on the computer.
Matt - Oh, trust me, I've learned a lot I've learned I can work on a drawing for more than 6 hours, I've learned I can actually control a pencil better than I thought I could, and I think I could draw a flawless human back after staring at this Barque for 8 hours everyday for weeks. lol. I've already noticed a much tighter control of my values and my hand in my imaginative stuff. As soon as I get a small mirror for my desk in my living room and the time, I'll be doing the self-portrait stuff again. I'd love to start again, see if my training so far has any improvements in store for my SP's.
MindCandy - Yes Jon, you and only you!! lol. I tried finishing the apple today after Annie helped me with it and you left, I think I flung more crap on the canvas again, it fell apart. We need to do color charts bad.
September 19th, 2004 #8
Im so proud of you. I cant wait to see where your path will lead over the next few years.
you are setting a great example for willingness to work hard to develop your eye and hand. nicely done.
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September 19th, 2004 #9
dang! and i was soo looking forward to seeing the pictures nate
well i hope you repost 'em cause man, i gots to see your progress!
September 19th, 2004 #10
hey, y ou can check out the old bargue thread here http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12104
witness my attempts at training my eye with no instructor haha
When you and jon are done you gotta shape my ass into gear hahah
September 19th, 2004 #11
Jason - Thanks, I can't tell you how much it means to have you say that. I definitely appreciate it, hopefully in a few years I'll be acouple notches above where I'm at now. I wish I could have seen you guys again San Francisco again, but I'm stuck in South Dakota in the meantime. If I land some money down the road, I'll try to see you guys at your next one after this.
Injection - Hmm, sorry you can't see them. I don't see any red x's, anyone else having problems?
Endregan - Yeah, I saw it thanks. Biggest thing I see is taking your time, moving from one step to the next after you finish one. I felt the urge countless times to go inside the silhouette for the first week and half, but I knew I'd probably have a paint brush jammed through my eye if I did that. It's just exhibiting patience, and really working at it until it's perfect. Every concave line needs to be concave, not convex. Every little angle, notch, curve, has to be spot on. I spent a day making 3mm long lines in the drawing look the same from one to the other. It's amazing at how badly things can get screwed up at the size of these drawings when your off by a millimeter. It really makes all the difference to really get these perfect within such tight areas.
Endregan, or anyone for that matter, I would be more than happy to help you more if you want to pm or e-mail me or something, I'd be happy to help you out and get you started on the right track. Just let me know and we'll get started. E-mail is firstname.lastname@example.org I don't think I have it in my profile yet.
September 24th, 2004 #12
Finished drawing of the first Barque...
Second Barque I've started...
And an apple study I did last weekend for a few hours...
Oh, and a value study I did en plein air for a few hours...
Sorry for the larger images.
September 24th, 2004 #13
n ow that's what i'm talking about!!!
man nate, you're doin quite well there, keep it up man cause you're gonna go far!!!
September 24th, 2004 #14
you're a painting fool! little nate dogger is growing up right before our eyes...that apple is dope! good luck on the next bargue...thats a tough one!
September 24th, 2004 #15
September 24th, 2004 #16
September 24th, 2004 #17
Cool man, on the right path.
You are lucky, mcm is such a good influence
September 30th, 2004 #18
Sorry I haven't replied or updated. Been busy trying to finish my site. You can check it out at http://www.snitzerart.com Let me know what you think and if anything is funky. I'm still tweaking it but I think I have it.
Current progress on the Barque. I blocked in the outline as close as possible to the actual thing, now I have to start refining the line, getting all the curves. Trying to find little spots that are concave, convex, and making them that way on my drawing. This is the LONG stage in my opinion. It's the least fun compared to shading and modelling and it can get frustrating. This stage teaches the most patience I think though. You want that outline as CLOSE to perfect as possible without being able to see the shadow shapes to judge it even further. My first Barque I spent almost 3 weeks on the outline. This one I think will take a lot longer than that. At first glance it looked less complicated until I actually dug in and started seeing the little nuances of the line and I knew I was in for a doozy, lol.
Here is a Carnation flower study I did with Jon on Saturday and Sunday. It didn't come out too well, but I learned a little more on this one. It was fun though, I'm hoping to start doing acouple of these a week. I need to learn my color mixing better though. Oil painting is so much fun, I can't wait for the full blown instruction when I get past the cast stuff into the oil painting cirriculum.
Injection - Thanks man, I appreciate it. I'm trying hard, I'm a driven man. Jon sees me when we are doing the oils, I get mad, I want to learn this stuff so badly. lol.
Jetpack - Yeah Mike, it is a tough one. I never knew till I started it, it looked so simple, lol. How you doing man? I wish I knew what you've been up to, haven't been able to browse conceptart too much lately though Take it easy man.
Stephen - Thanks man, I dig the work your doing too. I love your gesture drawings, awesome stuff.
MindCandMan - lol, thanks Jon
Endregan - Thanks Endregan. Only on some days is Jon a good influence. Sometimes he plain freaks me out. The thing he does with the bread dough and the blow-up dolls still has me reeling....
Kidding. No, Jon is a very very kind guy, it's a pleasure being in a studio environment with him and dealing with him on a day-to-day basis. He definitely helped make me feel more comfortable on my move out here. Just a genuinely nice person.
Thanks for the comments everyone, take it easy.
October 4th, 2004 #19
that oil of a carnation is really cool
man, those barque drawings seem to require alot of patience and diligent work, good stuff
October 12th, 2004 #20
Finished the outline on this Barque. I'm now ready to move inside to work on the shadow shapes. This is where the real fun begins as I will be constantly comparing the inside shapes to the outside silhouette. I'll still be tweaking the outside silhouette at this stage as well as I compare how everything is fitting inside the drawing. The inside of this one is much more complicated than the first, so this one will take awhile at this stage.
Injection - LOL thanks, I personally thought it stinks. I'm going to be doing color charts this week to learn my color mixing a bit as my instructors are heading out of town to Washington D.C. for their big show and gallery opening. 3 guys will be left behind at the studio to do whatever they want... YES!
October 12th, 2004 #21
These bargue drawings are really amazing man. The one question I have is, while I realize that they're very impressive and certainly teach you how to put in values in a very careful way, what more does one expect to get from doing these? Keep in mind I'm in no way questioning their importance, it's just never been explained to me before. Keep up the good work.
"Es nat far meh, es far me maaah."
October 12th, 2004 #22
Thanks SS1, very valid question.
The Barque drawings, with my limited experience to them so far, have taught me an incredible amount of things.
First off, the training I'll be going through in my atelier program uses the sight size method for the rest of the work I'll be doing from the model and the cast. The Barque drawings introduce you to that system of measuring and as a result allow you to learn and practice before you move from the much easier 2d (Barques) onto the harder 3d stuff (casts, life model, still-lifes, etc.)
Barques are also a great system for training your hand and your eye, allowing it to develop much more sensitively than it otherwise would. I've seen such a huge improvement on my control over the last 2 months, it shocked me. I was flipping through sketchbooks of mine from 5 months ago and I gasped. My value control and my attention to value are stronger now. My attention to line and line control is much stronger now.
The last thing it has taught me has been finishing skills. When you spend between 3-7 weeks on one drawing, depending on difficulty, you pretty much learn your capable of finishing off a drawing and putting a nice polish on it. Which is incredibly important since it will be easy spending 2 months on one cast drawing.
Overall, it just helps greatly with your hand control and eye sensitivity. I can render now and do things now I couldn't do before, I can notice mistakes easier and I'm learning how to fix them. It's just a great way to begin training everything to make it that much stronger. The only thing you have to be careful of is to not do sight-size drawing only, and to actually go out and do comparative life drawing as well. Sight-size is a great method for getting the perfect measurements, but comparative keeps your eye and hand limber and working both is the best thing for you.
I hope that answered your question SS1. It ultimately boils down to, in some respects, I don't have a clue what I'm talking about . I just know this is the same kind of training the masters went through and I just know what's working for me and right now the Barques are definitely having a positive effect on my development. I can't wait to start casts to see what happens next.
October 14th, 2004 #23
I'm really intrigued by this, might be something to try myself. Thanks for taking the time to break it down for me man.
October 19th, 2004 #24
Sorry about the poor picture quality. My camera isn't exactly the best available and I don't have any money to buy another.
Working on the inside shadow shapes. I'm slowly working up areas, simplifying them, then after I have the impression I'm polishing up the shape. I'm just reaching the stage now where I'm starting to refine the shadow steps while I'm still adding them. It allows me to most accurately judge the silhouette and any relationships. All the while I'm doing this, I'm looking at the abstract shapes and trying to replicate what I'm seeing. It's a nice trick that helps you really draw a shape correctly when you look at the shadow area as a weird crazy chicken spitting flames than by actually thinking it's a chin or a forehead or any actual anatomical feature.
Color chart I worked on this weekend. This is the first of about 11 charts I'll be working on. The way these work is first you take your palette or whatever colors you want to mix and just do straight, unmixed colors on the first chart and 5 or 7 or even 10 values all gridded out. I put the unmixed color at the top and mix white into each color to bring it down to an off-white where you barely see what color is mixed in. This is done for the first chart. The next charts will be the same concept, but the difference will be a dominant color mixed into each individual color for each individual chart. One will be viridian dominant, next will be burnt umber, next yellow ochre, etc.
S51 - No problem man. They are a VERY good exercise. They get incredibly boring, they get incredibly frustrating, they get incredibly everything. But I'm seeing a lot more now, I'm becoming very patient with my work, and I'm finishing. So it's all good in my book.
October 24th, 2004 #25
nate, good to see your newer works. I'll get posting my stuff in here in the next couple of days...
those color charts are interesting...does Hans have you painting now, or are you starting that on your own? Do you guys have set hours you go in? You and Jon in there together alot of the time drawing and talking? That would really be dope to have a buddy to hang with. Watts is a great school, but everyone is really laid back for the most part...except Ron, who isn't human. Seriously, his brain and hand interact on a higher plane.
Anyway, now that I have my internet back, I'll be checking up on you fellows. I'm really curious to know what the lifestyle is like up there....
my hat is off to you.
October 24th, 2004 #26
Hi Mike. The hours are whatever you want. This program is built around like 20% instructor discpline, 80% self discipline. They expect you to be in the studio as much as possible, especially when the instructors are present. We are each given keys to the studio though so we are welcome to come and go as we please. I usually come in around noon to 1 when everyone is at lunch. I work till about 7, go home, have dinner, then come back and work from about 9 to 2 in the morning.
The color charts were just exercises Jon and I decided to do to help ourselves out with a better understanding of color mixing. We didn't recieve any instructor help, although when I officially start oil painting after I finish the blue paper and white chalk cirriculum, then they will go through the exercises with me. It probably won't be another year to a year and a half before I begin that though.
As for having Jon in the studio, it is awesome. All the students in the studio have a great sense of humor. We all get real goofy and there really is no competition or ego's at all, it's refreshing. It's make for a very good environment as everyone is actively trying to help everyone else out, it's something you don't see much of in other school's from what I've found.
It is cool though, how is everything going with you? Give me the full lowdown on what you've been up to and what Watt's is like, I'm really interested in knowing.
October 27th, 2004 #27
Added base value to see the shapes better. Lots of tweaking going on at this point, outside and inside. There were so many shapes on the inside of the face that my instructors told me to lay the value down to see them better. Lots of nice abstract shapes in there, birds, firemen dancing, all sorts of weird things. Makes finding the shape much easier though. My next step from here is refining the inside shapes and beginning the real modelling.
*Incomplete Life Drawings*
These life drawings are mainly starts only. They are all one day studies, my instructor wants me to practice beginning a drawing and eventually moving up to doing a complete gesture in one 20 minute pose. Right now these gestures are taking me about 2-3 hours to do and most are still incomplete. Although I am getting faster and more accurate. It's a MUCH different pace and method to sight-size in life drawing compared to comparative life drawing in a regular art school. It's taking some getting used to.
These are all in no particular order. They aren't progression shots, they are all different drawings.
November 4th, 2004 #28
Well, fixed a few areas around the silhouette. Working on the inside shapes, I'm well on my way now to beginning to finish this one.
November 4th, 2004 #29
November 4th, 2004 #30
Aye Carumba! That cast drawing is really coming along. Here I thought you'd be working on that till damn near the next presidential election. its certainly a bugger, but you're handling it really well. I like how you are building it up...thats something i really struggle with. keep on with the goods man, you're doing great.