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  1. #1
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    Advertising on CA

    Hey,

    We have turned away advertisers for the past two years which has cost thousands of dollars in revenue but has also kept our site grassroots and clean from banners.

    The topic has come up to take on advertising (like corel, adobe, and the like) in order to fund the sites growth and pay for scholarships etc...

    Personally, I have my own ideas on this and you can see the results of no banners on the site currently. However, others have pressured the idea which will allow for greater things to be done with the site and community.

    An idea was presented where if an advertiser were to want an ad done for the site..let's say corel as an example...that we actually use some of that budget to hold a contest for best corel banner or the like. Basically, finding a way to have the ads on the site and thus the look of the site be controlled by the members of conceptart.org and also provide some needed cash into the art community here.

    As stated, I am personally shy to the idea of any advertising at all. However, I am curious what you all think.


    Please feel free to share your thoughts.


    Jason


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  3. #2
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    scolarships? is this new?

    anyway, i personally love that this site has no banners or ads. as i hate them so much. true they can help fund things for our comunity, but i just cant stand them. i am never interested in them either (like i wanted a new version of painter, i wouldnt need a banner to remind me ^-^)

    so thats my feelings on it, just like you jason. it is very rare for a large forum like this one to have no banners, i would like to see it stay this way.


    but ofcourse, funding for this is allways needed, so i dunno. i suppose the tshirts wont bring in enough money for anything major.


    well ok, thats my thoughts anyway



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  4. #3
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    I also dont like the idea of ads really. But member controlled ads sounds like a great alternative. We all know that CA needs funds to improve workshops, scholarships, etc... and I think this would be a great idea. Instead of letting the individual companies use their own banners, we can control it by designing our own and in turn the company gets a great banner done exclusively for them by using their own software to do it. I say it's a win-win situation! It sounds like a good opportunity for CA to grow and that's what excites me the most about this idea.

    btw, what are the type of companies that want to advertise on CA besides corel and photoshop?

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  5. #4
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    I can't stand pop-ups, but I can tolerate banners, as long as they don't have animations...those are just annoying.

  6. #5
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    Thumbs up

    Jason,

    I think if we are ever going to get noticed for what we do, we need to open our doors to ads.

    Those funds could go to:

    More Thunderdome contests, w/ better rewards.

    Give some serious exposure to CA and it's members = more work and recognition in our field.

    I LOVE the idea of CA peeps designing the ads so it fits with the look of the site.

    Frankly, we have some serious realestate on this site, a banner that would compliment it would not look so bad. NO POP-UPS or animations though!

    I also think that when ousiders hit this site and find well known named companies sponsoring us, it will only give our proffesion more clout.

    You also might want to look into big art supply stores, Decor, Comicon, GAG, Art Center?

    Hell, do you know how much people spend to put banners on Amazon? Get some of these publishers who make great art books to advertise here!


    Just mhop.
    Last edited by otis; August 27th, 2004 at 04:56 PM.
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  7. #6
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley
    An idea was presented where if an advertiser were to want an ad done for the site..let's say corel as an example...that we actually use some of that budget to hold a contest for best corel banner or the like.
    Interesting idea... I'd be curious to see if a company would go for it. They spend millions on branding. To turn it over to a contest might be a tall order. But, it would definitely be fun if they went for it! And yeah, you could control the look of the site better. I just hope they don't want to turn our beloved CA into a cacophony of blinking lights and popups All they see is 12,000 members with $ in our pockets.

  8. #7
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    i think Inks idea of creating personalized banners is a great idea.

    advretising is a very sensitive issue. Jason and myself have comited ourselves to the quality and strentgh of his comunity and is scares me to risk what we have all built together for financial gain. however as we grow so do our expenses. money from adds could be funneled into scolarships and thunderdom prizes that could bring us to a new level.

    i see so many threads asking about what program and what tablet to buy, if our adds represented what we belived were quality professional products than there could ba a benifit to them. basicly there has been alot of passive agressive advetising allready and why not profit from more direct banners and links.

    the feedback you can offer on this subject is very important, Jason and i are not taking this issue likely, all of you have participated in making this comunity what it is and we greatly appreciate your thoughts on the subject.

  9. #8
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    Better to remain independent- once you have advertisers and become dependent on that sweetly addicting flow of lucre, you become subject to their desires, to one degree or another. Do you want to have to worry about pleasing or, worse, displeasing the sponsors? What if they decide that some imagry is undesirable? See where this is going?

  10. #9
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    im all for being independant, and agree with you jason

    but i think getting sponsors on the site could really help things in the long run. as long as youre able to dictate the terms of the ads and how big/intrusive they are, you should be able to pull it off without any adverse side effects. also, as android said...promoting quality products,schools, etc. that are already being advertised for free in aLOT of threads (john tells joey to get painter blah blah...), you might as well charge em and make something out of it!!

    so, i say go for it
    -------
    I wont fail now

  11. #10
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    I agree with Chuck. And some advertisers may find some of the material posted here objectionable. I think CA is pretty decent as it is.

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    I see nothing wrong with well done advertising, like that on CGtalk.com. It helps the site, so it is all for the better.

    Es fließt durch meine Venen, Es schläft in meinen Tränen
    Es läuft mir aus den Ohren, Herz und Nieren sind Motoren


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    I would accept any banner if it really helps the community, but I would prefer to make an anual donation through Paypal and have the site 'clean'. We are a lot of people here, if just the half is be able to spend a little for help the community, it would be all kept from the community for the community.

    Anyway, it's just an option from my humble viewpoint.

    P.S.: Perhaps any pride prevented the donation thing before?

  14. #13
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    tricky topic... I have worried that the founders of CA have been spending too much of their own money for our benefit and I would like to find a means to ease their expense as well as enable the growth of this community.

    I like the idea of corporations funding us, but after having worked in the admin department of a large business I can guarantee they would not have our best interests at heart. What if Painter is bought by a soft-drink/snack food conglomerate whose lawyers object to an image (as chuckw suggested) or just want to cut costs and drop our funding? the sudden budget shortfall could kill CA if become dependent on them.

    I mentioned this before in the Tshirt thread, but why not call them "tuition tees" and sell them for $50.00 each? That would probably be 30-40 over your costs. Do that 2-3 times per year (each "semester") and sell say 200 each time and you would likely cover all expenses for contests, etc. You might consider making a pre-purchase a requirement to be entered in the design contest, but that might go too far. But, if it offers a chance to get your art onto a shirt that would be sold or given(!) to game studios, fifty bucks doesn't sound too steep a price to be seen by potential employers, support the community and get a shirt that's guaranteed to kick ass anyway.

    well, I don't know, now it sounds kind of like a spam email pyramid scheme, but it's an idea that would help keep us independent.
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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jull
    I would accept any banner if it really helps the community, but I would prefer to make an anual donation through Paypal and have the site 'clean'. We are a lot of people here, if just the half is be able to spend a little for help the community, it would be all kept from the community for the community.

    Anyway, it's just an option from my humble viewpoint.

    P.S.: Perhaps any pride prevented the donation thing before?
    well that is an option for sure.....what would be the positive and negatives of doing that here on the site?

  16. #15
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    i´m having a hard time saying:
    "yo jason fuck that ad shit! shuddup´n pay for my clean screen!"

    and i really think that everybody after a while online develops some sorta ad blindness anyway.

    i´d even say that if ads would really open doors other than those to the golf club near you, you really should take what you earned and reinvest in new layers of your vision.

    truly "keeping it real" has to be a dynamic process.

  17. #16
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    positive: money, no ads, the feeling of knowing that one has done something to help ca.org.


    negative: hard to calculate how many would donate how much and when.
    and if it´s not enough and you´d have to allow ads at some point still, everybody will be dissappointed

  18. #17
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    Would the banners only be on the front page or would they appear throughout the forum? I think a banner or two on the front page could work, considering the format–there are already a few empty spots, like right under the Best Of picture–and it wouldn't bother forum-users for the most part. Of course, it might get a little less traffic, but the site does get alot of visitors that probably go through the main page anyway, just a thought.

    Oh, and as people have already mentioned, we should be wary of becoming dependant on any corporate funds, though I'm not sure how practical that would be in the future.
    Last edited by Cyrus; August 27th, 2004 at 07:46 PM.
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  19. #18
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    If we are worried about big corporate companies dictating to us, then just stick to smaller companies or even better universities like Art Center etc.
    Although I don't think we are even most of us paint dirty enough crap like eatpoo.com to really offend anyone.
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  20. #19
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    If we could make our own ads for our own community I'm sure that the companies being advertized wouldn't be overly critical....I mean, you've got a community of people aimed at mastering the visual medium creating your ads for you?
    Not only that, but you've got the exact audience you're trying to market to seeing the product you're trying to sell.
    Not to mention that it's being endorsed by an artist(designer of the ad) who is like a personal celebrity to the particular people being targeted....more affordable than getting Charlie Sheen or someone to endorse it, and more effective.

    Plus, having ads designed by our peers, instead of just dismissing the ad like I do on every other site, I might at least click it as a nod to the guys that are doing the work.


    I'm still not sure if it's the greatest idea...but there are certainly good ways to go about it.

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  21. #20
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    hmmm....what to do....

    the final option is to continue on as we are....get the tshirt designs done...orders in...tshirts made and shipped...build the site that way.

    andrew has a vision of a hub studio for conceptart.org members....a warehouse art space somewhere which everyone is welcome if they wish to travel or are in the area. A place for workshops, teaching, learning. hanging out doing art, and having gallery shows....bring some of the artists lifestyle on the boards to life. The grand vision...and Im a dreamer...would be to have spaces or studios like that located in major cities. For example, Seattle and London are really strong right now for local CA chapters. They need space. How do we get that to happen? All that needs to happen is goals being met which support that grand scheme. eventually it falls in place like it always does.

    just thoughts....



    j

  22. #21
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    ^I think thats a really good idea..

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    sometimes you gotta do what you may not necessarily like to get ahead. i think ads from companies related to art/concept art would be good, espically if it means financial gain.

    cgtalk does a fine job of incorporting ads onto it's forums. and they are all related somehow to the 3d industry. i think if we can have custom banners or choose from a pool of premade company ads then it will be a win win situation. as stated, NO POP UPS and no google ads!! so cheesy.

    ake a look at cgtalk to get an idea.

    my .2 centsualtions

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    Since the ads would be geared towards artists and art students I would have no objections to them. If there were ads for tiny digital cameras and obnoxious popups promoting job search engines I'd be very disappointed, but that's not what's being concidered. I use Corel, Wacom and Adobe products all the time, they're of high quality and I'd recommend them to anyone, so seeing a banner promoting something I approve of wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
    It is nice having an ad-free community but there may be more positive things to come out of advertising than money, if there was a possibility of getting discounts on purchases or having companies sponsor events and competitions, that might really help members, for example if wacom tablets were offered as prizes in Thunderdome people might really step up and work their hearts out to receive something they may not be able to afford. I'm not sure if any of that is possible, but everyone here is the target market so having such a huge concentration of prospective buyers might give them the incentive to do such things.
    So basically I'm saying I have no problem with ads, whatever helps the community is fine with me and the only way to really find out if this is a good plan or not is to try it out.
    Surely limited ad space/time could be offered as sort of a test run, the big companies would probably want that anyway, just to see if they'll profit or not. If people have problems they'll certainly let you know.

    There is a crack, a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in...

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    Do the Ad's.

    You guys have dumped A LOT of time into this site. Here's a chance to maybe make a few bucks, and pay for the upkeep on the site without dipping into your own pockets. Just so long as there's no pop-up-poop, or overly loud banners it'd be cool.

    Maybe have each advertiser agree to one contest a year were they donate something we can all compete for. CGChannel/Talk has ads galore, and they're still good sites.

    Sorry if I'm repeating things that have already been said, no time to read all these.

    Just my two pesos.

  26. #25
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    Honestly, if the ads help alot, go for it.

    I don't mind a fixed banner. I don't see what the big deal is...you don't have to look at the ad.

    Worth the benefits I think.

    And the community designed banners are a good idea.
    Motivation...gone.

    Sketchbook be here...

  27. #26
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    Talking

    oh man, local meeting places in select cities i'm...i'm ...so happy *tear*



    dang that'd be awesome...like "hey i'm coming into LA for a few days, you want to meet up at the spot and draw?" oh man...



    well on the ads issue i like the idea of custom ads, not sure it'll fly with the companies uinless they're really good and they'd probably want to use them for other purposes(who knows...). definitely NO pop-ups...man i think everyone would hate that. the banners are cooll, especially if they fund things like the local meeting areas and scholarships and such...man i must express my pride for CA.org i salute you Jason Manley , keep on dreaming surely these dreams will become reality

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoUseFrAName
    If we could make our own ads for our own community I'm sure that the companies being advertized wouldn't be overly critical....I mean, you've got a community of people aimed at mastering the visual medium creating your ads for you?
    Not only that, but you've got the exact audience you're trying to market to seeing the product you're trying to sell.
    Not to mention that it's being endorsed by an artist(designer of the ad) who is like a personal celebrity to the particular people being targeted....more affordable than getting Charlie Sheen or someone to endorse it, and more effective.-Rob
    I agree with this 100% because its not like we're going to see something distaceful or offensive in anyway, but it will be an add that has class and is known for being designed from someone that's a CA member. It will be helping out everyone. The company(lets say corel) gets a great ad, the designer gets known through his add, and in return CA grows. Where's the downfall in that?

    Imagine after a few ad competitions go through and lets say you (the designer of the ad) are at a big convention/gallery opening/ or at some industry event, and the new corel ad is printed on some huge poster. People will be excited to meet you and congratulate you on the job well done. Also, what if the poster said on the side "designed by _________, member of conceptart.org." 3 people will benefit from that right there; Corel,CA, Designer. And this could keep going on until you guys(Jason and Android) decide that we dont need anymore companies advertising on CA.

    Someone else mentioned art schools. I know that Art Center would really be up for this cuz there's lots of students that know about CA at school and ACCD would love for potential students find out about them every which way they can. Not only that, but there's tons of big shots that come to ACCD per term to check out the work done by the graduating class. Lets say that there's posters at school advertising CA (in return for letting Art Center advertise through CA) and some bigshot passes by and "hey, well what do you know, this looks interesting, I think Ill check out conceptart.org."

    Anyways, I know these ideas (crazy scenerios of mine) are sort of out there and really far into the future. But I see this as a great opportunity for CA to grow. So if it was up to me I say you guys do it. Plus how could it hurt if you just give it a try? It wont hurt to try will it?

    ink
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    There is nothing wrong with using a photo to help you see things.
    No one complains about life drawing,
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    its easy, and will improve your piece greatly."

  29. #28
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    jason- i think that its totally acceptable to have ads if it will help you and the other admins run this place, im all for any type of support that we may need.
    Nathan Campbells 3 steps to drawing like a pro, 1. Sketch 2. shade. 3. highlights and ur done

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    Jason and Andrew-

    i think that if the ads ( if they are strickly artistic oriented ads) would be an ok idea if kept to 1. a minimal, 2. on the front/ mainpage, and 3. are there to help us out but letting us learn more about the program or tablet or artist tools rather then to just sell a product. like have a very good consumer service or something.

    i also dont like the idea of ads but if they are here to help us then i dont see too much of a problem of them.

    you can always try to set up a short temporary trial and see if it helps or not.

    i also like the pay pal donation idea. you all are reallythrowing yourselves out there for us awhen you dont have to and you deserve something in return.

    just my 2cents tho
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    It takes alot of money for stuff to happen, like workshops, scholarships, workspaces....

    Maybe wait out the shirts, then see where you lie. It seems like something you can jump into at any time, no rush yet, right? If the shirts really take things off....maybe you wouldn't need ads?

    But I'm with anyone else, so long as its not a pop-up, or gives me epileptic siezures, its all good...

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