DPI question
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    DPI question

    I was just wondering what dpi most people are painting at. I usually paint at 300 dpi (print res) but I have found that I struggle with the urge to zoom in to far, and fuss over vertually invisable detail. Thanks!

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    this would be better placed in the lounge... but I paint at 300 dpi too... try just not zooming in...

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    Doh!

    Good point. Still kinda new here. As you suggested, I usually try not to zoom past 70%. Its funny though, I know alot of people who have trouble wraping their heads around the dpi thing. It may be a game industry related thing though, since game wise, we are in a 72 dpi world.

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    300 DPI is standard But here is a trick when working on details zoomed in. You can open the same document by going to the Window / Arrange / New Window for (***.psd).

    This allows to have 2 of the same document open and have on zoomed in and one at 100%. Photoshop will automatically apply your work to both of the documents simutanously.

    Below is a screenshot.



    skinns
    Skinwerks Tattoo & Design

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    skinns, great tip!
    But what of us left behind in PS6 land?

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    umm, let see. I believe Photoshop has the command built in to the "FILE MENU". Try to open the same document thats already open!

    skinns
    Skinwerks Tattoo & Design

    "Use your emotions to think, but don't think with your emotions"
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1967
    But what of us left behind in PS6 land?
    View>New View

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    ah thats right..

    skinns
    Skinwerks Tattoo & Design

    "Use your emotions to think, but don't think with your emotions"
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    Hey, fantastic!

    Thanks Skinns! Great tip!

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    Thanks!

    it is through these lil' "tricks" that you see the vastness and endless possibilites with Photoshop!

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    300 dpi is a relative measure. What is really important is the pixel by pixel dimensions. 7" x 5" @ 300 dpi is the same resolution as 29.187" x 20.833" at 72 dpi. Both are 2100 x 1500 pixels.

    A lot of artists, both new and experienced at digital, have a poor understanding of resolution. Here is my simplified, 2 version:

    Most commercial printing presses print at 150 lpi (note this is different than dpi.) In order to avoid an ugly side effect of converting a digital image to a half-tone for printing, printers will recommend that your resolution be twice your half-tone screen value at the printed size. This yields the nice round number of 300 dpi, which is easy to remember, but it is actually overkill. Generally, 1.5 times your printed line screen is sufficient. (225 ppi at the final output size) The larger the piece, the lower the resolution can go, mostly because you will never be close enough to see the individual dots. Billboards only print at about a 15 lpi screen.

    I have my promo cards printed at a place that uses a special process that actually prints at 300 lpi, which is twice what most commercial litho presses produce, and they only require a 300 dpi file.

    Your desktop printer, even your fancy Epson that prints at 2880 dpi, prints at the equivalent of about an 85 lpi screen. Epson uses a process known as stochastic dithering to disguise the dots, so comparisons to a commercial printing press are useless.

    However, I would suggest that you make frequent, in-between desktop proofs. Being able to zoom in 1600% on a monitor can be great, but it gives you a really distorted sense of scale, particularly on large pieces.

    If anyone wants a more detailed explaination of resolution and how it relates to printing (or screen images for that matter) let me know, and I'll try to put something together. For those of you working in video or console games, the resolution issue gets even messier, because televisions don't display images the same way a computer monitor does.

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    good tips! thanks people.... and a question. Do you recommend painting below 300 dpi? what if I just want to show it on the web... would 150 dpi suffice? less or more?

    thanks in advance,
    GriNGoLoCo

    "Nihil est in intellectu quod non prius in sensu" | SB | Portfolio | FJGC (blog) | DA (Profile) | EJERCICIOS DE COLOR
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    GringoLoco,

    Like I said, the dpi is a relative measurement. 800 x 600 pixels is a good size for displaying on the web. At 72 dpi that image is a little over 11 x 8 inches, at 300 dpi it is a little over 2 5/8 x 2 inches, but the real resolution is the same. If you are ONLY going to post the image on the web, then I would paint at that size. However, you should work at the appropriate resolution for all uses of your image. Make copies and down-size for the lower resolutions. (There are some tricks to up-res images, but results can be mixed. Simply increasing the resolution in Photoshop will produce unsatisfactory results.)

    Here are some guidelines:

    2400 x 3200 pixels is a good starting point for a magazine cover with a lot of detail and a tight rendering style. If your work is more loose and painterly, you could probably get away with 1536 x 2048 (which is the same res as a 3 megapixel digital camera.)

    4800 x 7200 pixels for a 24" x 36" poster or photographic print. If you have access to a Fuji color proofing system, an Iris proofer, or a Matchprint system, you can make beautiful large format images. Most likely, you're going to have to purchase these on a print by print basis from a graphic arts service bureau, unless your name rhymes with Bill Gates. I have also made some nice 8 x 10 prints at the local Walgreens on their Kodak machine. 1600 x 2000 is good enough for an 8 x 10. These machines actually print from RGB files, so don't take CMYK in and expect it to work.

    3600 x 7200 for a 4' x 8' outdoor sign. Notice how this is actually LOWER than the photo print? Resolution is affected by the distance from which you view the piece. The farther away that you have to stand to see the whole piece, the lower the resolution can be.

    720 x 540 for a television image. (Non-HD) Now, you may be asking yourself, 'Why would an image on my 32" television have such a low res compared to a 8.5" x 11" magazine cover?' The answer is that you read a magazine at around 10"-12" away from your eyes. You watch your television from across the room. (Probably 10 feet or more) Even an HDTV image is only 1920 x 1080. Motion pictures are around 4096 x 2214, and they get projected to over 30 feet wide!! Again, you will never be close enough to see the pixels. Try watching a movie from a foot away. The front row is bad enough!

    ALWAYS work in RGB mode. CMYK conversion should be the very last step, and ideally should be handled by a professional. I worked in pre-press for 10 years, and I can't count the number of times an artist was pissed because (s)he did the CMYK conversion and messed it up. If you do decide to do the conversion yourself, keep the original RGB. DON'T SAVE OVER IT!!!

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    Fantastic

    Many thanks KM! That was one of the most helpfull descriptions of this I have read. I think alot of people will benefit from this post!

    V

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    Alot of overkill information. But definitley interesting. 300 dpi at 100% in inches would be the safest route to go. If you find your system clunky then I would go down to 150 dpi.

    skinns
    Skinwerks Tattoo & Design

    "Use your emotions to think, but don't think with your emotions"
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    can you elaborate a bit more?

    working at such high resolutions, you must have to zoom in and out a lot.
    So... thinking how to phrase this question...

    ... when fine tuning your work - say on a 1600x2000 image - what's the smallest dimensions you will zoom/work on? 300x400? 600x800?

    does anyone individually paint each pixel? i imagine not since by the zoomout to 1600x2000 it would be insignificant. what is the smallest "brush" size that is reasonable to use? i hate fine tuning details that end up being or invisible or otherwise totally pointless (like hatching that just looks fuzzy zoomed out).

    most ppl say they work at 300 dpi, but what size is the image? there's no hiding talent but i don't know if some of these amazing images look that good just because they're shrunk down a lot on the web. no offense anyone.

    sorry for all the questions - i don't know much.

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    just to clearify things, the proper term is PPI, NOT dpi- dots per inch have nothing to do with pixels. Dots are what printers use. Pixels are what you see on screen. 300 ppi is standard for print stuff- you cant tell a difference higher then 300. Your DPI will be at least 720-1200 depending on your printer. There is the biggest difference; Printers print dpi much higher than ppi.

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    Well Actually DPI was the industry standard when Adobe Products were becoming the norm for printing. But yes now everybody uses the the term PPI which is really irrealvant since they both are directed to the same thing (resolution)

    This has got to be alot of information for some of those who have asked the original question.

    As a artist, and we all are here I assume. I would always create your work for print ready resolutions (300 PPI) in inches. Ya never who would actually like to have a peice of your art work printed, there are alot of collectors out there.

    As a matter of fact I just had 8x11 (300 PPI) printed up 16x20 Strected Canvas and it looks amazing. The cost was only $75 for the print.

    skinns
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    dpi and ppi are completely diffetent. A screen uses pixels and pixels are much larger than dots. If you want do print something 300 DPI it would look like shit. As I mentioned most printers print at least 1200 dots in one inch. SO if you want to go with a 300ppi image and print it a 1200 dpi, the print rint 4 times more information than the screen dislpys (even though it would be four douplicate dots) Besicaly you say a car wheel is the same as a tire.

    IM not trying to be knitt-picky im just trying to help avoid you some confussion.

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    Pixels per inch and dots per inch are different, but its merely just in the spelling of the words. You call 20 commercial print houses and ask them there standard print qualifications and you'll get mixed answers, because its talking about the print resolution.

    So when you are creating a new document in Photoshop (which is what the original question was) you give your size (inches or pixels) and then the resolution. There is no option for dpi verses ppi in resolution field. Its just (Pixels per inch). So its really irrealvant to discuss the differences, if the software does not allow you choose one from the other.

    I have been printing all sorts of media for about 7 years now, Everything from business cards to Full Page Flyers to 16x20 Canvas reproductions. I have always printed from 300 DPI or PPI, using inches, (JPG-at highest Quality) at 100% and have gotten more than satisfactory results. This is also the standard across the board for most print companies that print in most of these media types.

    Like "kmscottmoore" said 300 DPI is sometimes overkill and it really depends on the actual size of your document.

    There are many Forums that continually discuss this till your blue in the face, along with Optical Resolution, Mechanical Resolution, and Interpolation Resolution.

    skinns
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    photoshop doesnt let you choose one from the other because screens dont use dots. If you go into your PRINTER settings you CAN chose the dpi your art prints at. It wouldnt make any sence any other way. What would be the point of making a picture at 300 dpi if the printer was just going to change it to something else like 1200 dpi? Not to mention a computer screen does not disply dots so you would not be looking at an accurate representation of your art. I am totaly aware that for some stupid reason everyone refures to ppi as dpi so in a sence it doesnt matter, but to me it is like calling a mac a pc. It boils down to them not being the same thing and i think people should make an effort to be knowlegable about their profession.

    i think one thing we can all agree on is that making your files any larger than 300ppi is pointless. right?

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    300dpi is the norm for printing.

    I believe some big-budget magazines (time, entertainment weekly, etc.) print their work at 600dpi, but this is just from word of mouth.

    Anywho, I see "unnoticable detail" as this. When a director makes a movie, there are things in which he will want to imply in a certain shot that to him will make that scene that much better then it is, but in reality the audience viewing his/her work won't even notice that extra detail and just see it as a whole.

    This does not make it wrong, hell I am guilty of this myself and have been asked why I even bother doing so. I explain that while when I print a piece of artwork which will have lost detail, I admit to it. However when showcasing that file to a client or between an interview, I would like to think the minor detail will become more noticable. And besides, not like it hurts the piece.

    "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else." - Tyler Durden
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    Nardfrog, I think that is a good conclusion to this ppi - dpi fence that seems to be very confusing.

    On the other hand, I checked out your site and I love that creepies-banner.jpg. Fantastic work! Nice coloring, line work, etc..

    skinns
    Skinwerks Tattoo & Design

    "Use your emotions to think, but don't think with your emotions"
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    thanks skinns, i was looking at the presentation of your site the other day and i thought to myself, why the hell dont i spend more time making a site, cuz this looks really nice. Granidt mine took about 2 hours to make, yours looks MUCH more presentable.

    BLAST ON YOU!
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    appreciate it Nardfrog. I have about 3 years of on and off work on it. You can imagine how much dust collects on your graphic style in that manner. I look at the site now and thing, why the hell is it soo narrow..

    Creativity menu structure too.

    skinns
    Skinwerks Tattoo & Design

    "Use your emotions to think, but don't think with your emotions"
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    Maybe a clearer explanation can be found here ... it's all about dpi lpi ppi and spi ... yes there is an spi.

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