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    Line Weight

    I took a shot at line weight based on heaviest line for shadows, medium weight line for close and undersides and lightest for everything else. Opinions?
    Line Weight

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
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    I don't see much difference in the line weight. Guess it is too subtle.
    Do you know the tutorial at AnimatedBuzz?
    How to Draw a Caricature
    Look at the "Darkest Lines" version and the one where lighter lines have been added.

    Also I think you should spend more time to get the proportions right.
    What's going on with his left leg? Looks pretty painful.
    Guess that's partly because the overlapping line of the cape seems like a line that defines the form of the upper leg.
    His right knee looks a bit pointy. And maybe give him eyebrows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Signature
    I don't see much difference in the line weight. Guess it is too subtle.
    Do you know the tutorial at AnimatedBuzz?
    How to Draw a Caricature
    Look at the "Darkest Lines" version and the one where lighter lines have been added.

    Also I think you should spend more time to get the proportions right.
    What's going on with his left leg? Looks pretty painful.
    Guess that's partly because the overlapping line of the cape seems like a line that defines the form of the upper leg.
    His right knee looks a bit pointy. And maybe give him eyebrows.
    Eyebrows? *looks* Aw, man, I knew I forgot something! *headdesk*

    Well it was only a quick something I dashed off to use as a line weight experiment. You probably don't want to know what I did with it afterwards. I was really bored at that point.

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
    -Theodore Roosevelt.
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    A lot of people starting out have this and you do as well; Your lines look as if they were drawn by two people who have differing opinions on how to draw this picture (i.e. its as if you are unsure of where each line is going and where it will end up). When you draw, try to make your lines as guided as possible, never let one get away from you. It's this kind of attention to detail that will insure your success.

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    my crit would be that there isnt any line weight. you cant really go for line weight with only contor lines. you have to get some hatching in their to make the image feel like his has depth

    again before you move on to something a bit above you i suggest to to just focus on anatomy and how the human body works. the guy has a huge, HUGE, forehead. infact its at least a fivehead or a sixhead try not to make the pose to difficult for yourself. forshortening the hand is something that is very hard to do for everyone. it looks cool if done right but in your case it looks like a stack of boomerangs. also your still drawing to iconicly. dont think of an eye as a football shape with a circle in it. get your self a loomis anatomy book and copy all the pics you can in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meDrawUC
    A lot of people starting out have this and you do as well; Your lines look as if they were drawn by two people who have differing opinions on how to draw this picture (i.e. its as if you are unsure of where each line is going and where it will end up). When you draw, try to make your lines as guided as possible, never let one get away from you. It's this kind of attention to detail that will insure your success.
    ::Nod:: When it came to his clothes, I mostly just threw an outfit together. Also, I think the paper I use bleeds the ink through. That might be why the lines look shaky.

    Of course, I've never been accused of having a light touch either. *Shrug* I'll work on it, that's all I can say.

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
    -Theodore Roosevelt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by |NTeRN
    my crit would be that there isnt any line weight. you cant really go for line weight with only contor lines. you have to get some hatching in their to make the image feel like his has depth

    again before you move on to something a bit above you i suggest to to just focus on anatomy and how the human body works. the guy has a huge, HUGE, forehead. infact its at least a fivehead or a sixhead try not to make the pose to difficult for yourself. forshortening the hand is something that is very hard to do for everyone. it looks cool if done right but in your case it looks like a stack of boomerangs. also your still drawing to iconicly. dont think of an eye as a football shape with a circle in it. get your self a loomis anatomy book and copy all the pics you can in it.
    Hatching? *groan of dispair*

    Ah well, at least the eyes look better then in previous drawings. Small victory and all.

    To tell the truth, his foreshortened hand was supposed to have fingers pointing upwards. Now I just need to remember why he was supposed to be sqautting.

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
    -Theodore Roosevelt.
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    Give pencils a try. They don't bleed through any paper.

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    dude, you aren't going to improve in one drawing. you've got to do an ENTIRE SKETCHBOOK of drawings, then you'll see some improvement. you need to work on the quantity...then we can give you some more help on the quality.

    I self-published a book on the fundamentals of drawing from life.

    http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-D...8951905&sr=8-1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrodius
    Give pencils a try. They don't bleed through any paper.
    I do use pencil. Blue pencil and then I ink over it. No erasing, just scanner settings and some tweaking in photoshop. It makes it look better to me, for some reason.

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
    -Theodore Roosevelt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetpack42
    dude, you aren't going to improve in one drawing. you've got to do an ENTIRE SKETCHBOOK of drawings, then you'll see some improvement. you need to work on the quantity...then we can give you some more help on the quality.
    Quite true, quite true

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
    -Theodore Roosevelt.
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    um also stay away from photshop. also use a real pencil. those blue ones arent the best for erashing or shading

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrodius
    That's pretty much the reaction I got when I posted it to my blog.

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
    -Theodore Roosevelt.
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    No offense, but you really aren't listening to us. This coloring quality is exactly the same as the one in the last thread you made, you are just filling in shapes with blocks of color. For all we know you did this entire thing with the fill tool.


    So, listen this time. Stop with the photoshop, stop with the light blue pencil, and stop with the inking over that blue pencil. Have you stopped it? Good. Now start with the sketches, lots of them, and use a regular pencil so you can get some tone in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrodius
    No offense, but you really aren't listening to us. This coloring quality is exactly the same as the one in the last thread you made, you are just filling in shapes with blocks of color. For all we know you did this entire thing with the fill tool.

    So, listen this time. Stop with the photoshop, stop with the light blue pencil, and stop with the inking over that blue pencil. Have you stopped it? Good. Now start with the sketches, lots of them, and use a regular pencil so you can get some tone in there.
    And when I do use regular lead:
    Line Weight
    I don't know what you see, but I anatomical mistakes aside, I see crap. Utter crap. When I use blue pencil, there's not as much crapiness to my eye.

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
    -Theodore Roosevelt.
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    I don't know what you see, but I anatomical mistakes aside, I see crap. Utter crap. When I use blue pencil, there's not as much crapiness to my eye.

    Oh, you are right then. Do not attempt to use regular pencil if it looks like crap. Practice? Nahhhhhhh....

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    dude, your skills produce the same quality of work no matter if you use a normal pencil, a blue pencil, a purple pencil or a rainbow super nutty pencil.


    copy great artists. then apply the techniques in your own work in a steady fashion.

    pissing out one sketch a week isn't going to make you any better.

    I self-published a book on the fundamentals of drawing from life.

    http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-D...8951905&sr=8-1
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    Quote Originally Posted by StudioPC
    And when I do use regular lead:

    I don't know what you see, but I anatomical mistakes aside, I see crap. Utter crap. When I use blue pencil, there's not as much crapiness to my eye.

    dude it looks exactly the same. except its not blue. stay with pencil... it'll do you more good then harm in the long run... this time, please LISTEN

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodrodius
    Oh, you are right then. Do not attempt to use regular pencil if it looks like crap. Practice? Nahhhhhhh....
    Ah yes, the sarcasm. My old friend. So glad you could stop by.

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
    -Theodore Roosevelt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by |NTeRN
    dude it looks exactly the same. except its not blue. stay with pencil... it'll do you more good then harm in the long run... this time, please LISTEN
    I AM listening. I just deleted a rant about perception and what I see using blue vs regular lead because a question occured to me and maybe its what's at the heart of this head butting we're doing.

    Qaulity of results aside, what, exactly do the tools have to do with how those results are achieved? Is art about skill or the tools used to express that skill? Why?

    My answer:
    It's about skill. It doesn't matter what the tools are because half the time, the person viewing the art doesn't know what tools were used unless they're told. So while one person uses clay, another uses chalk, and a third uses oils, in the end, you get what was in the person's head, what they saw in their mind's eye. What they see in making that real is what they used to do so.

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
    -Theodore Roosevelt.
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    Talking

    lol this is funny...

    He gets all this advice then comes back with the same pic flood filled bright colours lol. I wish I had one of them magic blue pencils.

    Studio these people know their shit.

    Try doing heaps of reference drawings, don't spend ages on each one, just get the basic proportions down. Don't draw from your mind, draw what you see not what you think it should look like.

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    my suggestion would be to peruse through all the sketch books here, and see what other people are doing...draw everyday....you will get better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StudioPC
    I AM listening. I just deleted a rant about perception and what I see using blue vs regular lead because a question occured to me and maybe its what's at the heart of this head butting we're doing.
    The normal pencil teaches you more about detail and tone than the washed out blue one can. And believe me when I say that the last sketch you have done looks better than the others because you can actually see what's going on.

    Quality of results aside, what, exactly do the tools have to do with how those results are achieved? Is art about skill or the tools used to express that skill? Why?
    Advanced tools requires a knowledge that you (and me, for that matter) don't have yet. Focusing on digital media NOW will hurt you. It's like competing in the Paris-Dakar without a driving license.

    It's about skill.
    What skill? You can't build up skill without praticing

    It doesn't matter what the tools are because half the time, the person viewing the art doesn't know what tools were used unless they're told.
    This is false. From where did you get this info from? Most people who bother with art can easily tell a medium from another unless the artist is very good. This is , honestly, not the case.

    So while one person uses clay, another uses chalk, and a third uses oils, in the end, you get what was in the person's head, what they saw in their mind's eye.
    This is true. Drawing is a mean of communication. But if you can't draw, you'll fail to communicate, and nobody will be interested in your message.

    What they see in making that real is what they used to do so.
    Maybe it's just my poor english, but I don't understand the sentence.

    Last edited by TheBug; August 17th, 2004 at 02:56 PM.
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    You know what I find sad? This thread has 24 replies to it. And this isn't the first thread StudioPC has started that's gotten this kind of response. And it isn't the first thread where he isn't actually following up on any of the advice given to him.

    So, to everyone else in here, stop wasting your time. Here are half a dozen threads on this first page that only got 1 or 2 replies so far. Spend your time one someone who might actually benefit from your advice.

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28490
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28494
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28299
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28084
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28340
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28105

    "Every generation sees the past though the lens of its own time." - Thom Hartmann
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    Maybe it's just my poor english, but I don't understand the sentence.
    . . . One of these days, I'm going to learn not to try and express my thoughts at 2 something in the morning.

    What I'm trying to say is that its not the tools, or the medium, its the message. I've never argued that I didn't need more anatomy study, or more practice, but I am arguing that skill level and tools shouldn't have to go hand in hand. I use blue lead and ink because I like it, I feel it looks better, and I feel it better suits me and how I want to express myself. It means using photoshop to remove the gray areas when I want to put those drawings out on the web.

    There are disadvantages, yes. But I don't see how its more advanced and thus wrong to use it.

    Look, I've taught myself to draw using books, websites, studying cartoons, and very few formal art classes, so maybe my learning curve or whatever you want to call it is skewed. I just don't see the problem.

    But since apparently there is a problem, fine. I surrender. I shall take up a regular pencil and draw with that. Still, I really do think that there is a difference in qaulity when I use regular lead vs a blue lead.

    Steve
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, then to rank with those timid spirits who neither enjoy, nor suffer much because they live in the grey twilight that knows neither victory or defeat."
    -Theodore Roosevelt.
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    . . . One of these days, I'm going to learn not to try and express my thoughts at 2 something in the morning.

    What I'm trying to say is that its not the tools, or the medium, its the message. I've never argued that I didn't need more anatomy study, or more practice, but I am arguing that skill level and tools shouldn't have to go hand in hand. I use blue lead and ink because I like it, I feel it looks better, and I feel it better suits me and how I want to express myself. It means using photoshop to remove the gray areas when I want to put those drawings out on the web.

    There are disadvantages, yes. But I don't see how its more advanced and thus wrong to use it.

    Look, I've taught myself to draw using books, websites, studying cartoons, and very few formal art classes, so maybe my learning curve or whatever you want to call it is skewed. I just don't see the problem.

    But since apparently there is a problem, fine. I surrender. I shall take up a regular pencil and draw with that. Still, I really do think that there is a difference in qaulity when I use regular lead vs a blue lead.

    Here's your problem. You don't like the "sketchy" look. You like the clean look. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it's a total preference thing. However, every good clean art piece you see started out as a sketch, and it looked sketchy at some point. You are attempting to skip over the sketch part and go straight to the clean part by using a light blue pencil and inking over the top of it. This is not the correct order. Those light blue pencils are designed to trace over the top of a normal pencil sketch, we use them in the animation labs all the time. But you are skipping an important step.

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