Doom 3 Concept Art
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Thread: Doom 3 Concept Art

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    Doom 3 Concept Art

    Does anyone know who did concept art for Doom 3 (the beasties)? Was it Adrian Carmack or someone else? Do they have a personal site?

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    most of the stuff i've seen has been by the games lead artist kenneth scott > he keeps himself to himself and hasnt updated his homepage since his quake 1 days.

    Still theres bits of stuff around the net, but good GOD would i like to get my hands on some "making of" style book. He's great!

    Heres an interview with a few more links at the bottom

    http://www.planetquake.com/polycount...nterview.shtml

    and heres a painting he did back in his pre-id days. The mans got talent...



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    man i always get pissed off when i think about how i have no way to contact him and see all his amazing artwork. I wish he was my neighbore!!!!!!!!!

    Last edited by nardfrog; August 10th, 2004 at 11:21 PM.
    BLAST ON YOU!
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    I have been searching for this guys art... still havent found anything.

    If anybody has any links to his artwork please share

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    hopefully he will stumble upon this site someday

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    It is interesting how many texturers/skinners are really good at detailing, but have no understanding of color at all since they work with greyscale and then 'colorize' (producing equal temperature in the shadow and light). Even Kemneth Scott's work suffers from it.

    Another interesting thing that article mentions is how there's less freedom for the texture artist as the models get more detailed and defined. I'ts more up to the modellers, which often are bad artists and thus have to rely on having good reference / concept art.

    Jamen jag tror att han skäms, och har gömt sig. Vårt universum det är en av dom otaliga spermasatser som Herren i sin självhärliga ensamhet har runkat fram för å besudla intet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus|ANJ
    Another interesting thing that article mentions is how there's less freedom for the texture artist as the models get more detailed and defined. I'ts more up to the modellers, which often are bad artists and thus have to rely on having good reference / concept art.
    i think the lack of freedom you mention is less of an issue now - there are fewer people ONLY doing skins and more that are responsible for the whole thing from start to finish i.e. modelling AND texturing. And in this case i think that current and next gen engines allow much more freedom. Theres so little that cant be accomplished. Kenneth scott himself moved into hi-poly modelling so i imagine at least some of the creatures in the game are all his > concept, hi-poly version and in-game.

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    Another interesting thing that article mentions is how there's less freedom for the texture artist as the models get more detailed and defined. I'ts more up to the modellers, which often are bad artists and thus have to rely on having good reference / concept art.
    Pixelherder is correct on this one. Ken did all but a few of the monster models in Doom 3, from concept all the way through to completion. The others were done by Seneca Menard, who also worked on his monsters from beginning to end.

    As far as lack of creativity goes, I have to disagree. There are a lot of skin/texture artists who have taken up modelling and sculpting to move along with the new technology. You also have to remember that the article posted is really old. I believe that interview was conducted right around the beginning of Doom's development.

    Greyscale painting is very common in the industry for one reason alone. You are often required to change the colors of a texture or skin, it is very difficult to keep any kind of color purity without repainting the texture from scratch each time. Its just easier and faster to start greyscale and plan to have to change the colors multiple times before calling it completed. I would definitely prefer to paint in color from start to finish on all skins but its usually something I have to reserve for personal work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus|ANJ
    It is interesting how many texturers/skinners are really good at detailing, but have no understanding of color at all since they work with greyscale and then 'colorize' (producing equal temperature in the shadow and light). Even Kemneth Scott's work suffers from it.
    what i see more as a skinner disease is the typical lack of mass and depth. everything just looks like a super detailed relief - since that is what you do as a skinner: you paint the details that will be put onto a model.
    a lot of texture artists use different approaches as the one you mentioned, too.
    there are quite a few who just lay down color as we would paint and dark horizon was known for introducing photoshop brushes set to hard light for painting, which allowed nice temperature changes - and working full color. i remember a lot of "mini-wars" going on between grayscale skinners and full-color skinners back at polycount.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus|ANJ
    Another interesting thing that article mentions is how there's less freedom for the texture artist as the models get more detailed and defined. I'ts more up to the modellers, which often are bad artists and thus have to rely on having good reference / concept art.
    guess why i left polycount and stopped the whole skinning thing?
    with a polycount between 1000 and 2000 (circa quake 3), you have inevitably some room left for own interpretation. what is this shape? in q3, what is this strange rectangular thing sticking out of visors face? is it indeed a visor? is it something growing out of his face rather than being put on top of it? what material is it made of? does it represent sensory equipment? or is it just a plain faceless thing?
    you actually could have a lot of fun as a skinner back then, reinventing modls because you saw some poly edge as something no one saw yet.
    with increasing model detail, however, more and more of the fun was taken out.
    ou get a model, and you see from the model alone that it represents an afro-american futiristic space marine. there are some minor details to fiddle with, but you somehow end up with a bunch of afro-american space marines. boring.

    ok... enough nostalgia rant/ramble..

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    Kenneth knows about this forum and lurks once in a blue moon. He's by far one of the most talented and skilled artists I've ever worked with and that article is very old. It came out before Quake 3 Arena was released. I visited him shortly before I moved out to Cali and got to see the maquettes in their early stages. I'm sure id will eventually release a book on the art of Doom 3. They really put everything they had in it.

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    Yeah, it's important to understand the hiarchy of details when you render details. The larger shapes/details deserves more values. Also, many texture artists forget stuff like darker values on the insides of the legs, under the arms, under the chin etc. (Less ambient light there)

    There are a couple of ways to fix color temperature. You can for example paint/colorize/color replace the greyscale detail so you get a cool shade and warm hilite, then use some sort of layer effect for the colors. I can understand why people colorize armour or cloth, but there's really no excuse to colorize skin, since it's mostly... skin colored.
    Colorizing skin makes it look _very_ dull. The skin has different hues that is important to get right. Knees, shoulder and elbows are tanned, female breasts are sort of pale blueish, atleast if you believe Frazetta. All that is lost if you colorize.

    Being good at two or three different things is very hard. Many companies are probably saving money on having one person do the concept art, model and texture. Of course, if one person does everything he can keep stuff consistant throughout the whole process. However, judging from the stuff I've seen, very few people have got what it takes to do everything. Kenneth Scott is doing a decent job though I have to say


    Edit: As the engines get better at rendering stuff like normal mapping, speculars, colored light/shadow, etc, the less work is left for the texture artist adding that stuff in on the painted texture. You don't have to be as good at simulating that anymore I guess, since it's rendered dynamically instead.

    Another thing I thought of is how games focuses too much on the models. HomeWorld 2, Ground Control and such games always show zoomed in ground level screenshots, but during gameplay you only see tiny, hard to read, blobs on the screen because it's not practical to zoom in like that. Many FPS games also overkill with polygons. Quake 1 has enough polygons for the actual gameplay really. You can't really tell the difference between a 400 poly model and a 6000 poly model when you play.

    Last edited by Prometheus|ANJ; August 11th, 2004 at 02:48 PM.
    Jamen jag tror att han skäms, och har gömt sig. Vårt universum det är en av dom otaliga spermasatser som Herren i sin självhärliga ensamhet har runkat fram för å besudla intet.
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    I can understand why people colorize armour or cloth, but there's really no excuse to colorize skin, since it's mostly... skin colored.
    Yes.. I completely agree with this since its fairly rare that skin tones ever need to be changed.

    As the engines get better at rendering stuff like normal mapping, speculars, colored light/shadow, etc, the less work is left for the texture artist adding that stuff in on the painted texture. You don't have to be as good at simulating that anymore I guess, since it's rendered dynamically instead.
    Pure texture art doesnt really exist with next gen tech. So people who were only doing skins, and environment textures have adapted and are now producing models and materials. Its fairly rare that someone does only material work, since its not the most entertaining thing to do and its also not nearly as involved as painting skins used to be. Creating high poly characters (especially now that Zbrush 2.0 is out) is a lot of fun and most people I know make their own materials for their models. Theres no need for an extra person in the pipeline.

    I think a lot of artists who focus on 2D work should try branching out into sculpting or some other form of 3D art as much as possible. I resisted it for awhile but I quickly learned that its very rewarding as well as it reinforces knowledge of form. As a result my painting and sketching has become a lot stronger since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus|ANJ
    You can't really tell the difference between a 400 poly model and a 6000 poly model when you play.
    hehe you are right, though.. at least for the gameplay speed of quake.
    for a slower game - especially the sneaking kind of game that has been popular since metal gear solid - youd still need more polygons.

    the question is whether you need 6000 for a human, just to have something you show on a screenshot and have the game magazines go .
    i think doom 3 will give lots of people a good clobber on the back of the head in this regard. it doesnt feature over the top poly counts but rather relies on bumpmaps for detail and the dynamic light thing to make level and inhabitants look much more coherent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelherder
    Still theres bits of stuff around the net, but good GOD would i like to get my hands on some "making of" style book. He's great!
    There seems to be a book called "The making of Doom 3 Book" but I am not sure if it has his concept art (I assume it does) in it. Apparently only WalMart carries it right now.

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    Craig Mullins did some concept work for doom3 in 2000:
    if you haven't already seen this...




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    Quote Originally Posted by troymcoy
    Craig Mullins did some concept work for doom3 in 2000:
    if you haven't already seen this...
    well colour me gobsmacked!



    ...craig mullins and kenneth scott...blimey!

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    I hear the game features 99% in door action...thats a shame, I would love to see something like that exterior base concept as something you could walk around. It looks so ominous

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    Quote Originally Posted by troymcoy
    I hear the game features 99% in door action...thats a shame, I would love to see something like that exterior base concept as something you could walk around. It looks so ominous
    Yes much is indoors, however there are parts where you are outside quickly(due to being no oxygen) and a few shots when going on the tram system where you can see the outside of the base and scenery. Is quite a shame though, as some of the shots looked pretty cool and you couldn't go out there, just look at them.

    As far as coloring models are concerned aren't we reaching the point where we don't necessarily have to color skins any more to create the illusion of depth and shadows? So why color dark under a chin when we can use lighting within a game to give the real shadow under the chin that moves with the character. We are nearly at the point where we can use lighting to create natural shadow, and use complex bump maps to create depth on a surface without texturing. Just look at the Unreal 3 engine, absolutely amazing depth.

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    there still are several issues left, even when models cast shadows onto themselves.

    what about places like armpits receiving self-reflected light (=heavy increase in saturation) almost all the time?
    what about different materials?

    it pretty much comes down to realtime raytracing and we're far from that right now.

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    Yeah, in the future there might not be any textures at all, just different materials. It's both good and bad. With static textures you have control of the look. Rendered stuff is more dynamic. Unless artists learn to do 3d, we'll see a lot of technical artists getting away with ghey designs cuz they're rendered neatly.

    Doom 3 interview thingy

    Jamen jag tror att han skäms, och har gömt sig. Vårt universum det är en av dom otaliga spermasatser som Herren i sin självhärliga ensamhet har runkat fram för å besudla intet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus|ANJ
    Yeah, in the future there might not be any textures at all, just different materials. It's both good and bad. With static textures you have control of the look. Rendered stuff is more dynamic. Unless artists learn to do 3d, we'll see a lot of technical artists getting away with ghey designs cuz they're rendered neatly.

    Doom 3 interview thingy
    What about programs like zbrush, I feel that those kind of programs bring back a bit of the creativity you can apply on the low res models for future games that rely on normal maps.. I know that I saw kenneth in one of the movies toying around with zbrush on the revenant or the hellknight (can't remember which one)

    But kenneth is one awsome artist.
    I really like this concept art image (I know its a bit small)

    apperantly from the pre-doom project they didn't felt really confident about

    I hope I meet him once in the future, when I obviously pwn you all with my 1337 pimpage art of superduperpuppylove

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    this guy would feel so special if he knew there was a whole thread started about finding his artwork lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil
    What about programs like zbrush, I feel that those kind of programs bring back a bit of the creativity you can apply on the low res models for future games that rely on normal maps..
    Yes! Zbrush is amazing.

    Just to prove a point, heres something i threw together in about 5 hours with zbrush. This wouldnt have been much fun to do in other programs.



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