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This seems a bit weird because there have been hundreds thousands westerners who learn Manga art but up to this day still no Anime made by westerners.
Anyway this reasons are nonsense :
- It won't be called as Anime if made by westerners, nope western producers have hired Asian animators to make many Anime for them.
- It is cheaper to use Asian animators, nope because if that is the reason then all the western animations would have been made by hiring Asian animators but the fact is not even up to 10% of them.
- There are Anime made by westerners such as avatar, nope too because first of all avatar is not an Anime because the art style are different from typical Anime, also the animators are Asian animators so it is really not made by westerners.
So what do you all think the reason? Is it because westerners are not able to fully comprehend the Manga art concept, westerners see making Anime only support Asians "supremacy" because the characters are based on Asians, or other reasons?
Asian cosplayers : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXD2GxxtVGM
As for western cosplayers go find them for yourself because whenever I posted western cosplayers there are always those who accuse of being biased of only chosing bad western cosplayers even when I don't have any intentions of doing so.
I would consider art style in Avatar to be manga/anime-ish .
Different artists have different styles , there's no point in trying to draw exactly like others , considering anime is just another art style . Even different manga/anime artist has different styles , so what's your standard of anime art style ?
Heh , anime characters are not even based on Asian .
lolwut? That's really a silly question, especially as "anime" is simply a Japinization of the french word for animation. Seeing as all animation is therefor "anime" saying that the home of Walt Disney doesn't make "anime" (animation) is like saying that the home of Henry Ford doesn't make motor cars. However, I'm guessing you are asking why we don't stylize our animation to look like the styles that are popular in Japan.
The answer certainly isn't "because westerners are not able to fully comprehend the Manga art concept" or that "westerners see making Anime only support Asians 'supremacy' because the characters are based on Asians." Instead the answer is simply a matter of cultural background.
For the past couple centuries, what has been trendy and stylish in western cultures has been about coming up with what is seen as "original" ideas; that has driven us through impressionism, modernism, dadaism, futurism, post-modernism and a number of other artistic movements. While many artists have been influenced by Asian art, the closest we come is influence and incorporation in our culture. To copy it would just be mimicry, something that we see as hack work.
Japanese culture, on the other hand, has been spending that same amount of time doing everything it can to copy what the west does and create a new (and in some cases better) version. This can be seen from the westernization of the nation's military in the late 1800's, to the copying and improving on our auto and other industrial industries in the 1900's.
Japanese anime is no stranger to this; the appearance of early anime styles were very closely based on western style characters. As time went on, Japanese culture had trouble accepting the stylization. The first example of this would be how, while 4 fingers was entirely acceptable to American audiences, Japanese audiences thought that a 4-fingered Atomu must be a mutation, and therefor unfit for children's entertainment. They pressed for more reality in some ways, but still accepted the larger expressive eyes, giving the look that we often see in anime today.
So, why don't we do the same thing in terms of style? Easy answer; we don't want to. American companies make more money distributing the stuff made in Japan without going to the effort of hiring a bunch of animators here in the US who will want to be paid more and get benefits from the company. Furthermore, the main reason westerners want to watch it is the exotic nature of the stuff; its really not that exotic if we make it ourselves.
Those are just nonsense because if westerners really don't want to imitate then why do they learn Manga art and have tried to produce Anime style looking animation [ which failed by the way ]?
As for Anime :
1. Japanese believe that Anime originated from Japan, have nothing to do with westerners.
2. Japanese believe that Anime characters based on Japanese [ Asians ], just see this toys [ see the 2D character too ] and ads made by Japanese depicting what Japanese think of how westerners are supposed to look which look very different from Anime characters :
you can see Japanese believe that westerners have small deep set eyes, big long nose, square face, square jaw and big wide body form while Anime characaters have big narrow set eyes, small nose, round face, sharp jaw and smallish body form. I prefer to believe those who can make Anime rather than westerners who can't make any Anime and even worse always fail cosplaying Anime characters.
To me the most possible reason why westerners can't make any Anime up to this day is because westerners can't fully comprehend Manga art. For example is when westerners keep saying the reason why Anime characters have big eyes is to make them look like westerners, while in Manga art technique big eyes are to add more cuteness to the characters, that is why almost all Anime characters who have big eyes are females and childrens because in Japan females and childrens are seen as and supposed to be/look cute.
Last edited by Kajune; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:22 AM.
What a complicated concept! No wonder no one in "the west" understands it. That is practically rocket science!
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I smell troll, by the way. Just a whiff, but quite a distinct smell anyways.
Yeah, I know. I suspected it even before I replied when I saw the "who does better cosplay" thread. I always try to give benefit of the doubt though. Plus, even if it wasn't being asked by a seriously interested individual, it was at least an interesting question to start out with and I figured it at least warranted an educated response.
Plus, trolls feed off drama. I've found that if you don't blow up at them and instead give in depth answers based in an educated understanding of the topic they either get bored and leave, or sometimes stick around long enough to create an amusing scene fishing for a reaction. Once someone points out that they are a troll though it kinds of kills that possibility.
Peter Coene made a lot of good points.
To add some stuff: You don't know enough about aesthetics and symbolism to state the function of design choices, your ignorance is revealed in "big eyes are to add more cuteness", flies have big eyes and they're ugly as fuck, moles have no eyes and they're cute and fluffy. The basic purpose of making a part big is to call attention to it, and exaggerate it's expressiveness, basically all it is is a stylization of a close up. In addition to this anime design is also intended to be a representation of European appearance, hence the pointy noses of the characters, the nose is the keystone of the face, it doesn't change a lot during expressions therefore it is a fitting symbol of an identity(the state or fact of remaining the same one or ones, as under varying aspects or conditions). Plus all the other European stuff, even the names are often Japanese first names and German last names, plus lame storylines that are bastardizations of the thoughts of Jung, Heidegger, Nietzsche. Compare the current appearance of the characters with what was being produced by the old Japanese painters, curved noses etc. This is one of the values of art, to be able to see what people where feeling at different moments in history. The function of a lot of anime is political, a lot of entertainment "art' is, in the words of Eiko Ishioka "I have pursued my creative goals as a messenger of our ideas. When the two worlds of East and West meet and a wonderful new world is born through their marriage, my hope is to become one of the leaders of that new culture." Real art isn't concerned with politics, but with revealing the truth that is often hidden by cultures. These old cultural ideas are basically obsolete today, it has reached the point where it makes most sense to consider ourselves earthlings as opposed to members of different nations.
Last edited by armando; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:48 PM.
That is acient Japanese portrait of over 600 years ago, this is from the moderm era :
Real into 3D [ Japanese ]
3D [ western characters ]
3D into 2D [ Asian character ]
2D into 3D [ a character said to be from the west ]
But as you can see when turned into 3D Anime characters look more obviouslly like Asian.
Check again the 2D characters depicting westerners in the background of the Japanese toys picture I posted including this one :
Did you see how different the characters look like from Anime characters?
What weird is [ the westerners who claim Anime characters based on them ] is that they don't make themselves to appear the same as the characters made by Asians [ not just Japanese ]. See this 3D western character made by westerner :
So how come westerners claim that Anime/Asian characters based on them while they themselves make their appearance to look different from what they claim? Totally nonsense.
What more ridiculous is that some westerners still insist that Anime characters have big eyes are mean to make them look like westerners, ridiculous because in reality :
1. If you study Manga art in Japan you will be told that "use bigger eyes size to make the character look more cuter while more smaller to make them look cooler", also "make the pupil [ dot part ] of the eyes smaller to make characters look bad/evil".
2. Japanese not find westerners to be attractive [ not cute = not attractive for Japanese ] as proven by :
- From all Japanese who Cosplay almost all of them prefer to imitate Anime/Asian characters rather than cartoon/western characters, you can see this fact on curecos.com
- Doll, figures or other characters based on westerners are not sell well in Japan including with western cartoon.
- Japanese not chosing any westerners to form the sister group for AKB48 which is Japanese most popular girl band in Japanese history, the concern is the girl band selling point are cuteness and innocentness while westerners not have the required criteria. Instead Japanese chosing other Asians [ Chinese and Indonesia ] to form the sister group.
It is now more evidence that the reason why westerners can't make even only just 1 Anime to this days is because westerners can't comprehend Manga art fully.
We gave you a history of the culture and how anime got started. I even explained that features like the eyes come from copying American animation, which did come first. To go more in depth, if you look you can even trace the stylistic lineage of anime from copying that American style (as in Atomu and Gigantor) from the inception of animation to the 70s' or so, through the 70's through the 80s you see a split off in Japanese style (Akira, Dragonball) that continues to the 90's (Pokemon, Cowboy Bebop, Eva) to what you see in modern anime (FullMetal Alchemist, Attack on Titan, FLCL) The eyes are a throwback to that history, and anyone who says otherwise either doesn't know, or else is intentionally hiding that Japan copies everything that they have. Just as the Chinese; Japan was copying all of their stuff until the west came along and Japan started copying us unstead.
It isn't our fault if you don't realize that it is you who can't comprehend the style you are so keen on. Oh, and as for how you claim Asians think western stuff is ugly; I'm sure that explains why so many Asian women go for white guys.
Have a nice day
Over 100 views but only 1 vote, don't forget to vote even if you don't reply this topic.
You aren't smart, brave, or honest enough to figure out what's going on here. Lesson 1: there is no "we", except in the imagination of the individual. The Utamaro portraits are examples of what he, and the people from that region of the world, thought was a beautiful woman prior to influence from various groups. Those pictures are poetic expressions of the appearance of Asian women, as Giottos pictures are poetic expressions of the appearance of Italian types. The plain fact is that they look like who they are supposed to look like. The styles of poetic expression differ among individuals and cultures, but all the meaningful and important stuff stays the same: the guts which makes art live.
All styles are points of view, which is kind of an ideology except different than how that word is usually used. Those pictures you have shown aren't art, they are entertainment and advertisement, the function of which is to sell an ideology and create a fantasy. A fantasy is a symbolic image of a desire, in this case the merging of East and West, which first requires that the audience believes in "east" and "west" and desires their union(I don't believe in east and west, I believe in global mythology.). This fantasy has been put into words by Eiko Ishioka, also Mashashi Kishimoto "In a live action movie Naruto would have to be played by a white kid.", Yoshitaka Amano "My characters are a blend of Asian and European."(paraphrases used). Their styles couldn't exist without European influence. Asian women don't look like the examples you posted without getting eyelid surgery and nose jobs and dying their hair brown, all of which are symbolic affirmations(declaring that a fantasy is true and real and not just a fantasy) of a group which shares a belief system, that is to say a religion. Also that picture of Lita is intended to be realistic, but hasn't achieved it because of the limited specs of the system it's running on.
A character isn't cute just because of big eyes but by the design of the form, the way it's organized with other forms(structure), how it's rendered, symbolic value, poetic expression, and it's function and placement in the story.
Ah, if only I had those godlike mod powers without the responsibility!
Thanks Black Spot; that move just brought this from worst of CA to winning! (Yes, I made a 3 year old Charlie Sheen reference. I wasn't around on the board for that shit so I gotta get it in now.)
The characters are just not made based on them, well Manga art originated from Japan so the characters will always reflecs on the origin.
Also seee this Japanese toys which "making fun" of westerners face :
Did you see the 2D character on the toy's background which looks very different from Anime characters? That 2D characters is comic character, comic art originated from the west so of course the characters will also based on westerners.
But it seems not many western cosplayers can accept this reality and continue on to hallucinate that Anime characters are based on them, in the end Anime fans still not like them for ruining Anime and not welcomed in the Anime Cosplay world so they just live in delussion.
Last edited by Kajune; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:44 AM.
Aaand who exaclty cares?
Besides, you are all wrong.
Cars are the best cosplayers! Just look at that Jaguar cosplaying as naruto, it beats asian and western alike.
I'm glad i could solve this silly discussion.
The mod is mad that one of his families or friends start to believe he/she is Asian due to seeing Anime and Asian Cosplay too much so he merge all my topics, awful.