Pipermaru - Composition 1.1

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    Pipermaru - Composition 1.1

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    Hi, First time poster here and a long time fan of the forum. Finally decided to join this great adventure to levelup as an artist. I work full-time as a 3D artist in game company and always wanted to do painting,illustration or concept. I am a father of a 3 years old boy and at the moment I'm also learning human anatomy in Zbrush (work related). So my progress will be slow and joining this levelup will always be my motivation to keep me to do painting. Thank you for doing this !

    1.NC Wyeth-Captain Nemo. First time doing this great masters study. I choose this painting because I really like how Wyeth playing with the ideas of balance. Wyeth, put the captain in the middle of the composition, it make him look strong and powerful but Wyeth paint him as an old man and he looks weak, you can see it from the skinny hand, the skinny face and to add more the fluffy big cushion that he sat on.

    I have fun doing this study and frustration a long the way, frustrated to get the values and shapes correctly.It took me around 5 to 6 hours(on and off) to do this and most of the time trying to fix to get the shapes right. I know that you mention to do the study in 1 hour but when I reached 1 hour time my painting was still very very rough and a lot of the values and shapes are not place correctly. So I got questions, Should I continue doing this ? or try to strict myself to do 1 hour painting? for this assignments which one will benefits me more ?

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    again many thanks for doing this ! and please excuse my english

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    Hi Pipermaru, Welcome here, really nice 1st study. Your shapes look good. Only thing I have noticed is, his sleeves near the hands are very bright in the original, especially on his right . Yours might need a little bit of adjustment. You are missing some texture in your copy too, but this is your first one so its best just to get familiar with photoshop workflow first and later get into textures. Otherwise really nice work !

    I too spend a lot of time on these, on average 7 hours a study. I believe that your speed will improve but the question is when to stop. I think you are always learning regardless, sometimes -I believe- its good to do a longer one to say invest time into eg learning how to paint the hair, or certain texture, or se how far can you go with precision... I learnt from these longer ones a lot. But at the same time, I don't want to spend half a year on these so i'm choosing balance of longer studies 10+ hours and shorter ones 4 hours, one hour is never enough for me personally, I found it takes me at least 4 hours to be sort of happy with it. But this is just me.

    Zbrush anatomy sounds great ! Is ZBrush difficult to learn? I actually don't even need to learn it I would like to get model of skull in ZBrush and use it as reference. Being able to rotate it would be a great tool for studies.

    Anyway I'll be looking forward to see more from you man ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faun View Post
    Hi Pipermaru, Welcome here, really nice 1st study. Your shapes look good. Only thing I have noticed is, his sleeves near the hands are very bright in the original, especially on his right . Yours might need a little bit of adjustment. You are missing some texture in your copy too, but this is your first one so its best just to get familiar with photoshop workflow first and later get into textures. Otherwise really nice work !

    I too spend a lot of time on these, on average 7 hours a study. I believe that your speed will improve but the question is when to stop. I think you are always learning regardless, sometimes -I believe- its good to do a longer one to say invest time into eg learning how to paint the hair, or certain texture, or se how far can you go with precision... I learnt from these longer ones a lot. But at the same time, I don't want to spend half a year on these so i'm choosing balance of longer studies 10+ hours and shorter ones 4 hours, one hour is never enough for me personally, I found it takes me at least 4 hours to be sort of happy with it. But this is just me.

    Zbrush anatomy sounds great ! Is ZBrush difficult to learn? I actually don't even need to learn it I would like to get model of skull in ZBrush and use it as reference. Being able to rotate it would be a great tool for studies.

    Anyway I'll be looking forward to see more from you man ;-)

    Hi Faun, Thank you for the crits. About the sleeves being to dark ,I completely agree with you ! after you mentioned it I can see it that the sleeves and the hair need to be more brighter, they really pop out in the original.
    I am glad to know that I'm not the only person that spend more than 1 hour on these study. I thought I was being really slow (that's when another frustration kick-in) even I spend for 5-6 hours and it's still not enough! but like you said, that we don't want to spend on it for half a year right? and you just need to know when to stop. I think that's the key. Thanks!

    Zbrush it's just another tool, it's not that hard to learn the software but I can says that you need time to understand how things works in Zbrush. If you have Zbrush, I can sent the file project for you to look at it. If you don't, I can always do a screenshot for you It might not be 100% accurate but I think it's good enough to use it as reference.

    I really wish I could do these assignments everyday but that's not real for me with all the full-time job,a family man and another study in between(which progressing slowly but hey! better to progress slow than stay still right?) and I'm pretty sure a lot of artists have the same situation like me. I have to find and make time to do these studies and that's when the questions comes in. Let's says that I can only do my assignments during weekends (either sat or sun,lucky if I can do both) and these assignments need 20 studies that means I can finish these comp 1.1 subjects in 20 weeks :o 5 months for 1 subject? would that be OK? or is it too long for 1 subject? or is it better to do it quickly and then I can move on to other subjects? any advice on these? maybe Jason also can give me some suggestions what to do? Many Thanks.

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    Hello! And I am really shocked to hear that you are a 3d artist, your first study is wonderful and would of assumed you are a painter

    About your first study, I think your values are reallly close! It seems to me the beard/facial area isn't popping out as much, and as the other pointed some lighter values needed.

    I suffer from properly planning out things, but now that I am on my fourth study, after I block in all the shades, before I start working details I take a moment to really compare the two side by side - squinting to try and blur things a bit. Do the areas that popout or are the lightest the same on my copy? Is the darkest area of the original the same as mine? I try and get this as close as possible before continuing. I keep noticing Jason pointing out the importance of getting the values right off the bat. I also noticed that if you find yourself color picking from all over the painting, you probably could of done tighter values! to further make it harder, I only use a solid hard brush to block in, this way it forces you to do more value shades to blend things together. If you get this stage down, its makes it sooo smooth while actual drawing that you'll find things moving faster...

    Which brings me to the time limit!

    I noticed mostly everyone spends more than an hour on their composition pieces - and the results are amazing! Really complete and beautiful.

    For me personally, I chose to follow the instructions given which were - minimum of 30 minutes, maximum of 1 hour.

    So far, all my studies have been 1 hour. I'd like to aim to keep all 20 of my studies at 1 hour, this way I can compare everything under the same time constraint. I found that I was getting faster, too. By my third study, I felt I had extra time to do details.

    So really I think it's a matter of preference. While I'm a perfectionist and would love to spend more time on the works, I want to keep it at 1 hour so I can fully see my improvements. And also force myself to get faster, and work in repetition.

    I also don't have that much free time - 20 assignments seems long if you do only 1 a week, but if you limit yourself to 1 hour I think it's more doable! So today I did two assignments, that was only 2 hours of my time.

    I may even try to do a 30 minute one, just for the heck of it, to see what I can accomplish in shorter amount of time. Maybe if I keep doing 1 hour and it gets easier, I can try 30.

    I think after I finish 20 assignments, maybe I'll go back and work more on my studies.

    Anyways, looking forward to your other submissions! And great job.

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    Just a quick post before go to bed for the second study I choose to do an environment painting by Thomas Moran the reason are because of the variety and the rhythm on this painting. It may look subtle but definitely there are a lot of rhythm on it, Like the rocks on the mountain, the trees,the bushes on the shadows,the people and the water.

    I do this study for about 5 hours a little bit faster than the first one and I still couldn't get the first hour to be where I wanted and end up spend more time to get the subtleness on the values. I have fun doing this environment painting. cheers.


    Name:  02_ThomasMoran_Study_Pipermaru.jpg
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    BTW Jpeg format make my dark grey blend in with the black. The psd file should be more brighter on the dark area. Does anyone having the same problem?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodmansa View Post
    Hello! And I am really shocked to hear that you are a 3d artist, your first study is wonderful and would of assumed you are a painter

    About your first study, I think your values are reallly close! It seems to me the beard/facial area isn't popping out as much, and as the other pointed some lighter values needed.

    I suffer from properly planning out things, but now that I am on my fourth study, after I block in all the shades, before I start working details I take a moment to really compare the two side by side - squinting to try and blur things a bit. Do the areas that popout or are the lightest the same on my copy? Is the darkest area of the original the same as mine? I try and get this as close as possible before continuing. I keep noticing Jason pointing out the importance of getting the values right off the bat. I also noticed that if you find yourself color picking from all over the painting, you probably could of done tighter values! to further make it harder, I only use a solid hard brush to block in, this way it forces you to do more value shades to blend things together. If you get this stage down, its makes it sooo smooth while actual drawing that you'll find things moving faster...

    Which brings me to the time limit!

    I noticed mostly everyone spends more than an hour on their composition pieces - and the results are amazing! Really complete and beautiful.

    For me personally, I chose to follow the instructions given which were - minimum of 30 minutes, maximum of 1 hour.

    So far, all my studies have been 1 hour. I'd like to aim to keep all 20 of my studies at 1 hour, this way I can compare everything under the same time constraint. I found that I was getting faster, too. By my third study, I felt I had extra time to do details.

    So really I think it's a matter of preference. While I'm a perfectionist and would love to spend more time on the works, I want to keep it at 1 hour so I can fully see my improvements. And also force myself to get faster, and work in repetition.

    I also don't have that much free time - 20 assignments seems long if you do only 1 a week, but if you limit yourself to 1 hour I think it's more doable! So today I did two assignments, that was only 2 hours of my time.

    I may even try to do a 30 minute one, just for the heck of it, to see what I can accomplish in shorter amount of time. Maybe if I keep doing 1 hour and it gets easier, I can try 30.

    I think after I finish 20 assignments, maybe I'll go back and work more on my studies.

    Anyways, looking forward to your other submissions! And great job.
    Hello Sodmansa, Thank you for your crits for my values and advice on time management I like the ideas where you always stick to 1 hour time limit and later on you can see your progress and improvements. Next time, when I do my studies I will keep that 1 hour time limit in mind and see which stage I am.

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    For the third study, I choose a contemporary artist, Jon Foster. I really like how Jon composed his painting, there are a lot of movements and fluidity in his works which I hope someday I will be able to do so. When I did my lines I already knew that, this painting it will be a good one. I think this painting can be consider a simple composition done by Jon. There are many paintings that he did are much more complex than this one.I had fun doing this study and I might do another study of his more complex painting in the future when I get better.

    Three things that I really like about this painting, first is The Rhythm, There are so much ups and downs on this image especially the pipes in the foreground. Second is the Continuity lines that have repetition of circular invisible lines, like the structures of the blimp in the background and the circular lines that connect from pipe to pipe in the foreground and the bend pipe as well. Third is the Emphasis on the values, I like how Jon separated the main foreground and the background by just playing with the lighting contrast, you can really feels the distance between the character and the blimp behind him.


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    Thanks!

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    hey pipermaru, these are awesome. i especially like your Jon Foster one. I'm new to LevelUp as well, and doing these are a lot of fun... I noticed the psd file being different than the original project every time I exported too. So now I just take a screen shot of the picture somewhat zoomed in and that seems to work really well. Although I'm not sure what you would actually do if you needed it in the exported psd file... Hope that helps. Keep Painting!

    - daniel

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    Hello! I really like the paintings you have chosen for copies, they are great!
    And you manage face expressions really well, esp. the first copy.

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    Your value usage is excellent. I think a bit more of a textured brush would help bring these images a little closer to the originals. Something I shared earlier is appropriate here:

    You are getting about 95 percent there with the three most important things...shapes, values and edges. are you flipping your images horizontally and vertically every minute or so to check accuracy?

    Make a pass at the end where you double check the following, in this order.

    a. shapes.
    b. values
    c. edges

    At this point all I think that is needed is double checking things at the end in a quality control pass...so to speak.

    Keep up the great work.

    I would like to see a bit more compositional analysis as well, as that is a major focus for this.

    Welcome and thanks for sharing...these are excellent.


    jm

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    Quote Originally Posted by arkhamalien View Post
    hey pipermaru, these are awesome. i especially like your Jon Foster one. I'm new to LevelUp as well, and doing these are a lot of fun... I noticed the psd file being different than the original project every time I exported too. So now I just take a screen shot of the picture somewhat zoomed in and that seems to work really well. Although I'm not sure what you would actually do if you needed it in the exported psd file... Hope that helps. Keep Painting!

    - daniel
    Thanks Daniel and welcome to LevelUp ! The screenshot is a great idea ! I should try that next time and keep Painting !

    Quote Originally Posted by McCloud View Post
    Hello! I really like the paintings you have chosen for copies, they are great!
    And you manage face expressions really well, esp. the first copy.
    Thanks McCloud I just choose like what Jason said, choose the one that you admire and the one that you hope you can be like that artist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    Your value usage is excellent. I think a bit more of a textured brush would help bring these images a little closer to the originals. Something I shared earlier is appropriate here:

    You are getting about 95 percent there with the three most important things...shapes, values and edges. are you flipping your images horizontally and vertically every minute or so to check accuracy?

    Make a pass at the end where you double check the following, in this order.

    a. shapes.
    b. values
    c. edges

    At this point all I think that is needed is double checking things at the end in a quality control pass...so to speak.

    Keep up the great work.

    I would like to see a bit more compositional analysis as well, as that is a major focus for this.

    Welcome and thanks for sharing...these are excellent.


    jm
    Thanks Jason for replying ! Yes I agree, I need to learn more how to use textured brush. I tried to used it before but somehow is either screw up my shape or my value not really sure how to use it. Any suggestion how to use it properly ?

    Yes, I flipped my images horizontally and vertically quite often to check on shapes and values. I also used a very loose grid to help me to make the first placement and to speed up the process.

    Thanks again JM for doing this

    Cheers.

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  14. #13
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    You are welcome. I look forward to the updates. This is great stuff. Keep em rolling!!!

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    Hi guys, lately I have been super busy with life and at work too and my work schedule will be pack until early next year there's a presentation deadline coming by end of Dec. I will be posting my studies when ever time allow me and it will took me more time to finish this assignments .

    Name:  04_NCWyeth_Study_Opium_Pipermaru.jpg
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    I will come back and write about the composition later on. It will take me sometimes to write it in English

    Thanks

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    Albert Bierstadt Study
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    Thanks

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    Frazetta Study
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    Thanks

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    Thomas Moran Study
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    No.8 It's almost done.
    Thanks

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    N.C. Wyeth Study
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    Manage to finished it yeay !
    Thanks

    Last edited by pipermaru; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:04 AM.
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    Good to see you back man, really nice studies.Your values are good only thing I see is no 6 could do with a lighter tone in the background behind her same with number 7 where the cottage is brighter in the original - but thats just a minor differences. I love your last study man, really nice texture in there too. good stuff :-)

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