A question about perspective

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  1. #1
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    Exclamation A question about perspective

    As an assignment for a series of tutorials on perspective I've been going through, I am trying to construct a general approximation of the building shown below as part of a "wild west" scene. I already started constructing it and know how to create the "slice" in the corner of the building, which is outlined in red.

    However, I am unsure where the VP(s) would be for the objects coming "out" of the slice or that are perpendicular to it, such as the planks of wood in that area. I would think that they would have a unique VP (s) from those that the two sets of blue lines recede two, which are your standard left and right vanishing points.

    I'm wondering if any of you guys can advise me on how to construct these objects that are perpendicular to the slanted "slice" of the building. Thanks so much for your help.

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    By the way, I do not by any means claim this photo to be my own. I am simply using it as reference.

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  3. #2
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    Well firstly I would suggest not using that thick lines, because even their width can make the perspective confusing, and secondly (and thirdly), a rickety old house will hardly have exactly pristine perspective lines, as some parts may have never been straight/built on uneven ground or have worn to "sag" over time, and remember that lens distortion may account as well.
    And yeah, there probably is more than one perspective point, I'd suggest you block out the clear shapes first and then concentrate on those, as you have done to one part of the wall.

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    Learn how to construct vanishing points for the various directions: the direction coming out of your slice is halfway the directions of the two sides of the building...

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    Well firstly I would suggest not using that thick lines, because even their width can make the perspective confusing, and secondly (and thirdly), a rickety old house will hardly have exactly pristine perspective lines, as some parts may have never been straight/built on uneven ground or have worn to "sag" over time, and remember that lens distortion may account as well.
    Thanks for the reply. I used those thick lines just to highlight what I meant. In reality I am constructing my "intrepretation" of this house from a different viewpoint with thin lines. Exactness is not as important as practice in this case, so I am simplifying any sagging, leaning, etc. to make it easier to draw.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    And yeah, there probably is more than one perspective point, I'd suggest you block out the clear shapes first and then concentrate on those, as you have done to one part of the wall.
    What do you mean by "concentrating" on the objects in question? I've tried to figure out how to construct them but don't know how with what knowledge of perspective I have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eezacque@xs4all.nl View Post
    Learn how to construct vanishing points for the various directions: the direction coming out of your slice is halfway the directions of the two sides of the building...
    Sorry, you must have posted as I was writing my reply to TinyBird, so I didn't see your answer. By "halfway the directions of the two sides of the building", do you mean halfway in between the two vanishing points on the horizon (ignoring the third)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragning View Post
    Sorry, you must have posted as I was writing my reply to TinyBird, so I didn't see your answer. By "halfway the directions of the two sides of the building", do you mean halfway in between the two vanishing points on the horizon (ignoring the third)?
    No. You need to construct the vanishing points from the viewpoint, as is explained in http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/tech10.html The handprint site is a great resource, but its depth is dazzling, so it is not the best way to kick you around. Tomorrow, I will write a little explanation for constructing vanishing points, hoping that in the meantime someone else will point you to a better resource.

    What tutorials are you using right now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragning View Post
    Sorry, you must have posted as I was writing my reply to TinyBird, so I didn't see your answer. By "halfway the directions of the two sides of the building", do you mean halfway in between the two vanishing points on the horizon (ignoring the third)?
    No. You need to construct the vanishing points from the viewpoint, as is explained in http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/tech10.html The handprint site is a great resource, but its depth is dazzling, so it is not the best way to kick you around. Tomorrow, I will write a little explanation for constructing vanishing points, hoping that in the meantime someone else will point you to a better resource.

    What tutorials are you using right now?

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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    Quote Originally Posted by eezacque@xs4all.nl View Post
    No. You need to construct the vanishing points from the viewpoint, as is explained in http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/tech10.html The handprint site is a great resource, but its depth is dazzling, so it is not the best way to kick you around. Tomorrow, I will write a little explanation for constructing vanishing points, hoping that in the meantime someone else will point you to a better resource.

    What tutorials are you using right now?
    Currently, I'm working through the Crimson Dagger's From a Cathedral class, and am on the fourth week, which is to mix buildings from multiple references to create a wild west "scene". So far, one, two, and three point perspective have been covered. However, I've also gone through and done the activities (many of them numerous times! ) in Norling's Perspective Made Easy, so I have an elementary knowledge of perspective.

    Regarding the handprint site, I have heard that it is incredibly intricate and informative, but as you say, I don't think it is suitable for an individual in my place to read through beginning to end currently.

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    Photographs may mislead you, because they do not work in 2-point perspective. What they do is essentially 1-point curvilinear perspective, and often the lens will compensate the pillow or barrel distortion by distributing distortion all over the image, so you also get subtly wavy lines.

    I'd suggest you quit trying to analyze photos like this, and get "Perspective Made Easy" by Norling. The "architect's method" is going to take you a long way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragning View Post
    Currently, I'm working through the Crimson Dagger's From a Cathedral class, and am on the fourth week, which is to mix buildings from multiple references to create a wild west "scene". So far, one, two, and three point perspective have been covered. However, I've also gone through and done the activities (many of them numerous times! ) in Norling's Perspective Made Easy, so I have an elementary knowledge of perspective.

    Regarding the handprint site, I have heard that it is incredibly intricate and informative, but as you say, I don't think it is suitable for an individual in my place to read through beginning to end currently.
    Never heard about Crimson Dagger, it seems to be a series of videos which makes it hard for me to check whether it is useful. Norling does cover the Architect's Method, which should be able to help you out. To be honest, it is a little disappointing to find that you studied Norling and missed this one. I agree about the handprint site.

    Well, as promised, I cooked up some information on constructing vanishing points. Using this, you may be able to construct the vanishing point of the corner of your saloon.

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    Grinnikend door het leven...
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    is the image below what you mean?

    or do you want to figure it out mathematically?
    I don't know if its the best way but:
    You can make a right angle connecting the vanishing points of the blue lines and that will give you the top/bottom of the circle
    from the point on the circle you can create a new right angle one line pointing to the vanishing point of the red line and
    where the other line goes to the horizon is the perpendicular vanishing point or the green lines should land.

    this assumes the blues are perpendicular to each other as are the red/green lines are, otherwise you gota figure out what angle the blue lines are then use that instead of a right angle

    I think that would work, don't kill me if it doesn't >

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    @arenhaus: I did practice the Architect's Method A LOT when I worked through Perspective Made Easy, as I mentioned in my post. (It's kind of funny, because reading some of your previous posts on this site encouraged me to buy that book, so thanks!) It just didn't occur to me to use the architect's method, as I am aiming more for a less technical freehand perspective drawing, rather than a mechanical perspective drawing.

    @eezacque@xs4all.nl: Thanks for your detailed explanation! As I mentioned above, I was not going for a super exact drawing, but I appreciate your short tutorial. The main sides of the building do not worry me, it is the objects "protruding" from the slice that do. Are you perhaps insisting that I should construct the slice as a seperate box running through the building, with its own set of VP's?

    @Thunderling: Yes! Those green lines seem to be indicating the general idea of what I mean. However, in your response, what do you mean by this "circle" that you are talking about?

    Thank you all for your time! If I get around to it, I will try to upload a picture of what I have so far.

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    by circle I mean the 90 degree circle of view, its in the handprint site

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragning View Post
    @arenhaus: I did practice the Architect's Method A LOT when I worked through Perspective Made Easy, as I mentioned in my post. (It's kind of funny, because reading some of your previous posts on this site encouraged me to buy that book, so thanks!) It just didn't occur to me to use the architect's method, as I am aiming more for a less technical freehand perspective drawing, rather than a mechanical perspective drawing.
    Well, as I said, photographs don't follow 2-point perspective, but if you fudge it a bit, you can find the VPs. Architect's method is good for that. Sometimes you can't avoid the technicalities.

    You may need to guess the position of the viewpoint and picture frustum, though.

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    Thanks guys (and girls?) for the help! I think I may have thought of a simpler way to guesstimate the VPs for the slice. I created the "slice" by using diagonals to find the 1/8 of both sides of the enclosing box that is nearest the corner and connected them, resulting in the cut away portion. If I used the drawthrough technique, and did this on the opposite corner of the box as well, I would have two faces of the box that makes up the slice, which I could use to lead me to the vanishing points for the slice. Sorry if that didn't make any sense for anybody who is looking at this with a similar problem. Heres a rough diagram of what I mean (not constructed). I'll let you know if it works!
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    The VPs of the slice and objects perpecdicular or parallel to it would be were the red lines converge somewhere off the page.

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    Works, if you are sure the box has a square footprint.
    I suggest you study perspective.

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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    Quote Originally Posted by eezacque@xs4all.nl View Post
    Works, if you are sure the box has a square footprint.
    I suggest you study perspective.
    I am currently, hence my question. Thanks for your help though! My idea seems to be working okay.

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    Last edited by bill618; April 20th, 2014 at 11:07 AM.
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    Thanks bill618! Those links at automotive illustration look very informative and helpful as learning resources. The cruise ship in the last one is so complex, but hey, maybe someday I'll get there. I'll try to stick with the basics for now!

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