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  1. #31
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    Everyone can join, it's an open public event

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  3. #32
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    Lovely sketches. I really like the expression in your lines. That's something I really lack myself. Keep posting!

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  4. #33
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    - nat - Nice, thanks for the info!

    chevy28360 Thanks, Chevy!


    I practised gesture drawing during the last few day in preparation to join the Spartan Camp which nat told me about. I'm doing 2-4 min mostly since I need more time to work on legs, feet and hands.

    I will spend the rest of the day working on a master-study to practice color and digital painting. I'm really looking forward to this and will post the different steps this time.

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  6. #34
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    Nice stuff! Just one issue: I don't think these are gestures...

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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  7. #35
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    These are so good man, and very impressive for 2-4 mins! Are they from life?

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  8. #36
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    love looking at your gestures, they are so damn good

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  9. #37
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    Hey, mate! Saw your comment in my sketchbook. You have some amazing stuff here. I really enjoyed looking through your gesture drawings. Very fine quality, very inspirational! Keep kicking ass! I'll definitely come around again

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  10. #38
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    eezacque@xs4all.nl Thanks, eezacque. But I'm not so sure if you're right about that. You probably think they're too detailed, right? I found very different informations about gesture drawing until now and it seems that there is no clear definition of the term. One aspect is strongly connected with the animation industry. But teachers like Vilppu or Hale seem to go back to the figure studies from baroque, renaissance or mannerism. You will find very different styles of 'gestures' there, from the quick studies of Rembrandt to the 'blocky' studies of Cambiaso. There are also german books who suggest something similar to gesture drawing, even if they never use the term. There are probably many other examples in different languages. I personally don't think that a specific definition of the term is needed, especially since people with any artistic background can probably profit from this kind of studies.

    And here is what I found out so far: I think the primary goal of a gesture drawing is to study the figures expression, based on your personal experience and not by the seen contour. The first step is to develope a compositional line based on the figures movement or rhythm. It can be the movement itself, the individual connection of the figures masses etc. Then you try to develope the figure in relation to the established composition line(s). What you'll focus on at this point is up to you and based on your artistic background. I personally tend to develope the three-dimensional form in relation to the figures rhythm since I want to study this aspect and find it aesthetically interesting.

    ...just my two cents. But after all, I'm just learning this stuff myself and depend on all the different informations in books or forums like this. Looking forward to hear about your personal view.

    fatman274 Thanks mate! No, but I will do some during next weeks life drawing session and post 'em. The gestures from this post are from photos and master paintings.

    Buxu & assumzaek Thank you, guys!

    The first master-study was a mess, I'm starting all over again with a new one. I also did a few more gestures. I originally hoped to do something different from my usual routine, but the results were not very satisfying. Maybe I'll try out watercolor, Charcoal or Copic Pens tomorrow.

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  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephanDraws View Post
    eezacque@xs4all.nl Thanks, eezacque. But I'm not so sure if you're right about that. You probably think they're too detailed, right? I found very different informations about gesture drawing until now and it seems that there is no clear definition of the term.
    Gesture is a bit of a can of worms! I don't think your sketches are too detailed, I think they are too far taken down the road of development, which starts at gesture, volume, contour and values. Gesture is like the quick notes you jot down during a lecture, to summarise the essence, because there is no time to record every word. It is like a scaffolding, along which the model will be developed further.

    One aspect is strongly connected with the animation industry. But teachers like Vilppu or Hale seem to go back to the figure studies from baroque, renaissance or mannerism. You will find very different styles of 'gestures' there, from the quick studies of Rembrandt to the 'blocky' studies of Cambiaso. There are also german books who suggest something similar to gesture drawing, even if they never use the term. There are probably many other examples in different languages. I personally don't think that a specific definition of the term is needed, especially since people with any artistic background can probably profit from this kind of studies.
    To quote Vilppu, there are no rules, only tools: whatever works for you. And yes, whatever you are trying to do, it works for you!

    And here is what I found out so far: I think the primary goal of a gesture drawing is to study the figures expression, based on your personal experience and not by the seen contour. The first step is to develope a compositional line based on the figures movement or rhythm. It can be the movement itself, the individual connection of the figures masses etc. Then you try to develope the figure in relation to the established composition line(s). What you'll focus on at this point is up to you and based on your artistic background. I personally tend to develope the three-dimensional form in relation to the figures rhythm since I want to study this aspect and find it aesthetically interesting.
    I think we roughly agree, until the point where you develop the three-dimensional form: that is where you leave the gesture. If you intend to study gesture further, I suggest you try some 30s poses. At what size are you working?

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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  13. #40
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    To add to this gesture drawing topic, I think gesture drawing can be defined pretty clear : A drawing in which the primary goal is to capture the gesture of your subject. Once the gesture has been captured the gesture drawing is essentially complete. Based on this I agree with the last sentence of eezacque.

    Regarding the purpose of gesture drawing, I quote Walt Stanchfield from the book Drawn To Life: 'The true purpose of gesture drawing is to observe how the model arrives at certain gestures so you can apply that process to whatever character you happen to be working on'

    If you want to expand your knowledge about this subject I strongly recommend that book. The principles I learned from it made a dramatic improvement in my gesture drawings.

    By the way the drawings are looking great! I like the stylization in some of them. Keep it up bro!

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  14. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by fantasyartist View Post
    To add to this gesture drawing topic, I think gesture drawing can be defined pretty clear : A drawing in which the primary goal is to capture the gesture of your subject.
    Hmmmm, I am missing the clarity here. Yes, it defines the notion of gesture drawing, but the main question is the definition of the notion of gesture.

    Regarding the purpose of gesture drawing, I quote Walt Stanchfield from the book Drawn To Life: 'The true purpose of gesture drawing is to observe how the model arrives at certain gestures so you can apply that process to whatever character you happen to be working on'
    Good point, good that you mention Walt Stanchfield here, I love his 'draw verbs instead of nouns'...

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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  15. #42
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    One more question: do you draw from life, as in 'real life with live people that do not pose'?

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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  16. #43
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    Well my intention was to define the notion of gesture drawing and not that of gesture. We're talking about the goal of gesture drawing and not about the definition of gesture right?

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  17. #44
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    Hmm... eezacque, you said, that 'where you develop the three-dimensional form: that is where you leave the gesture'. It's a pretty interesting toppic and I don't know an answer to this. A little bit of volume might help a gesture-drawing to develope its rhythm... not all poses are in an extreme motion, especially in real life. Think of a straight view of a back: the rhythm would benefit from the slightly opposite direction of ribcage and pelvis. I wouldn't know how to draw such a gesture without describing the three-dimensional form of those masses. Anyway, I can see your point and there probably is no straight border between gesture and no gesture. But I'm agree... when you take it too far, you leave the gesture.

    Therefore I think fantasyartist's description pretty much nailed it, even (or because) its very simple.

    To your other questions:
    - 30 seconds is not a bad idea... it's always good to leave the comfort zone. Maybe I'll try it tomorrow and post it. But they will suck lol. What is your prefered drawing time? Maybe post a link to some of your gestures if you feel like it.
    - I go to life drawing classes, but the models mostly change position after 5-30 min. I used to walk around the models and draw gestures from different angles, but it's really not the same. Other than that I tried to draw people in public which is quite challenging. 1.) because they permanently move, even if they sit (which is somehow strange) and 2.) because you'll get a few angry looks (OK, I can live with that).
    - size of my gestures is mostly 1/4 of an A4 paper.

    Walt Stanchfields books are great: I got the two volumes of 'drawn to life' and I really treasure them. Hmm.. what else is good? Vilppu of course and Hampton. I also love Robert Beverly Hales book (like I said before), even if it's not primarily about this subject. I heard very positive things about 'Force. Dynamic Life Drawing for Animators' by Michael Mattesi. Any idea if its good?

    Happy drawing!

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  18. #45
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    I read Force Dynamic Life Drawing for Animators last month and I think it is pretty good.The main thing I learned from the books is how to create interest in a drawing by the use of forceful shapes. Force Character Design from Life Drawing is also great.

    What's the difference between the two volumes of Drawn to Life?

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  19. #46
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    So those are your secrets... aha! You're really good with gesture perspective and showing mass through movement. I've always had problems with that, my gestures are usually flat and sometimes rigid. Any tips?

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  20. #47
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    hm i think the guy teaching me more in gesture was hsmpton, but loomis was great too...
    had you check this on here? i dont have this one but seems good.

    i understand you what you say about getting weird faces when draw ppl, still today after many time i can rememner those faces, haha

    and post stuff even if its a mess

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  21. #48
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    fantasyartist Awesome, thanks! *checking amazon* Regarding Walt Stanchfields books: not sure if there is a difference, the second volume pretty much continues where the first ends. One might think the first is about humans and the second about animals (because of the covers) but that's not the case. If you liked the first I would get the second too. It's really a good read!

    - nat - Hmm... I don't know if my tipps could help. I'm still learning myself and do many mistakes. But what comes to mind is an exercice I liked to do: I drew figures like boxes and then more like sandbags. It helped me to get a feeling for the 3D-form. And it's also useful to get used to the different approaches of simplification. One approach is to see the figure as build from round geometrical forms, the other is about square forms. A practical use would mix those abstractions of course. What also helps it to look for landmarks and get the angles of the body's main masses. I'll add a few old sketches so you see what I mean.

    Buxu Hampton is great too, I really liked his book! I sadly skipped Loomis since I didn't know of his books when I started drawing. I'll put it on my list too

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  23. #49
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    Thank you for your shared structures design. They are teachers and can help unlock some problems on my drawings. Thank you again.

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  24. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephanDraws View Post
    Hmm... eezacque, you said, that 'where you develop the three-dimensional form: that is where you leave the gesture'. It's a pretty interesting toppic and I don't know an answer to this. A little bit of volume might help a gesture-drawing to develope its rhythm... not all poses are in an extreme motion, especially in real life. Think of a straight view of a back: the rhythm would benefit from the slightly opposite direction of ribcage and pelvis.
    The curve of the spine suffices, here...

    To your other questions:
    - 30 seconds is not a bad idea... it's always good to leave the comfort zone. Maybe I'll try it tomorrow and post it. But they will suck lol. What is your prefered drawing time? Maybe post a link to some of your gestures if you feel like it.
    - I go to life drawing classes, but the models mostly change position after 5-30 min. I used to walk around the models and draw gestures from different angles, but it's really not the same. Other than that I tried to draw people in public which is quite challenging. 1.) because they permanently move, even if they sit (which is somehow strange) and 2.) because you'll get a few angry looks (OK, I can live with that).
    - size of my gestures is mostly 1/4 of an A4 paper.
    There is an old sketchbook page in my Sketchbook here. Drawing in public is challenging, because people move: this is exactly why you should nail the pose in seconds! I really recommend you to escape from the studio and study life! Yes, it is challenging and utterly frustrating, for the reasons you mentioned, and I can tell you lots of stories about responses I got from my victims ("My neighbour is also doing this, but he can do it really well") Living people don't pose! Study life: it is all there is! Look at Rembrandt: his most brilliant gestures are where he studies street life...

    I think you should work bigger! It really helps you to work with your body, feeling the pose...

    Walt Stanchfields books are great: I got the two volumes of 'drawn to life' and I really treasure them. Hmm.. what else is good? Vilppu of course and Hampton. I also love Robert Beverly Hales book (like I said before), even if it's not primarily about this subject. I heard very positive things about 'Force. Dynamic Life Drawing for Animators' by Michael Mattesi. Any idea if its good?
    Roughly speaking, gesture approaches vary from rational to intuitive. Vilppu, Stanchfield and Loomis feature a more rational approach, while Mattesi and, especially, Nicolaides, are on the intuitive side. For me, personally, the intuitive approach leads to scribbly drawing with proportional issues, which renders a scaffolding gesture useless.

    For inspiration, look up Karl Gnass "Spirit of the pose". It is not so much an instructional manual, but he shows great examples of what we are trying to achieve. And look up Henry Yann, just for fun! Enjoy!

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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  25. #51
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    Hey man, welcome! Hope you like it here ^_^. You got some really nice cartoony work there, the colours are a treat as well. And your studies are pretty spot on as well, don't have much else to say other than looking forward to seeing more!

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    i love everything that you have done here. I particularly like your understanding of the human form. I also think that the way you use colour in your landscapes is very appealing. You have a follow from me and i hope you keep posting

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    Hey Stephan, thanks for your comment on my sketchbook. I just discovered yours and : WOW man, those figures they are so cool! i really want to be able to draw fluid figures like the one you're drawing. I don't have that fludity but working on it. Think i'm gonna try to draw some of your figures to understand how you draw each shapes of the body. Also loved your paintings on the 1st page , landscapes , faces , everything . I will follow your sketchbook you wait for new drawings / paintings. cheers

    My Sketchbook : Ladislas wants to improve ! sketchbook page (critique is welcome)
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  28. #54
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    féfé73 Thank you, Féfé!

    eezacque@xs4all.nl Thanks for the input, it was a interesting discussion! Got a few new books in my shelf now

    ancientdrake Sure mate, this is a nice community. And I was lurking around way too long without posting. Thanks for the feedback and kind words!

    TheRedCow Thanks so much! I'm glad I found your SB too.

    LA10 Thank you Really like your SB too, looking forward to your new updates!

    My latest master-study went not so well... which means it sucks and is totally aweful and I better delete it from my disk. You wouldn't belive how much one can mess up a Bourgeau. But at least I wasn't completely unproductive this week. I did some animal studies for the new Spartan Camp and worked on some portrait sketches. I also go my hands on various color-tutorials. Maybe I'll post a few studies about that toppic during the next few days.

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  29. #55
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    The animal gestures are looking really nice! I think you nailed them on gesture, structure as well as proportions. Keep them comin'!

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  30. #56
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    dont fear and post we will only rip you haha.

    i love the pillows a ton man, i saw them some days ago and they really got stucked in my brain, such a good learning tecnique,
    also the horses are educative too.

    and about my last post in this SB i kinda missed a link, this was the link THE BOOK » Ryan Woodward | Thought of You | Official Site

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  31. #57
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    Hi! Solid stuff man! We seem to have the same roots as where the passion comes from! I love the two guys on horses in your second post!

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    fantasyartist Thanks mate... I'll do it, here they come

    Buxu Thanks Buxu, what a great link. I remember that I saw his animated short on the lines-and-colors blog about one year ago. Pure magic!

    Gibier Thanks for the encouraging words! Don Quichotte and Sancho were fun to draw.

    More animals...

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    I REALLY, REEEALLLY dig your gesture drawings. They are absolutely GREAT! The way how each limb the body is clearly defined but also smoothly interlocking with the next form to unify the entire gesture is just so silky. Haha xD. One thing in mind, I think you should try doing extreme foreshortened figures, take posemaniacs as a source, for example.

    keep up the great work I really am in love with your work :].

    Sketchbook

    I am going to be amazing! .
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    Post #48 (boxes and sandbags) is very helpful! Going to try that soon! Thanks.

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