maXmood - composition 1.1

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    maXmood - composition 1.1

    So here is my first attempt at this.. that took me 1 hour.

    do you still think this is the correct course for me?

    edit: the forum keeps logging me off (session timed-out), and i keep losing whatever i typed.

    anyways, i started with putting the values, blocking big shapes, then went small on the brush and stroked to define the shape. i know it's waaaay off in terms looks, but i mainly focused on the bigger shapes and their values. of course i color picked, but i'm sure there are alot of things i need to consider when trying to copy. i could try and copy the whole thing, which would probably look better, but then i wasn't looking after just copying, but trying to understand (even though i didn't get anything out of this, yet).
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    hey maXmood, I can't see a prob you doing these as well as your usual drawing studies,
    but I would suggest flipping your canvas vertically and horizontally while you are painting, so you can see your painting from a different view point, you will notice all kinds of mistakes when you do this, I usually assign keyboard shortcuts for this, I use F1 and F2 but whatever suits you.

    your values aint to bad, but maybe try lowering the flow, so its easier to blend the paint, ctrl+paint has some useful blending techniques.
    and just watch for your shapes and try to get your proportion as close as possible, it doesn't have to be perfect but try your best.
    anyway good job and keep it up, you will only get better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfdolla View Post
    hey maXmood, I can't see a prob you doing these as well as your usual drawing studies,
    but I would suggest flipping your canvas vertically and horizontally while you are painting, so you can see your painting from a different view point, you will notice all kinds of mistakes when you do this, I usually assign keyboard shortcuts for this, I use F1 and F2 but whatever suits you.

    your values aint to bad, but maybe try lowering the flow, so its easier to blend the paint, ctrl+paint has some useful blending techniques.
    and just watch for your shapes and try to get your proportion as close as possible, it doesn't have to be perfect but try your best.
    anyway good job and keep it up, you will only get better.
    Name:  cabanel.jpg
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    Thanks halfdolla..

    i didn't think of putting guidelines or grid on that painting, i just painted what i saw. thanks for pointing that out.

    i have ASUS slate ep121 and i'm not using the wireless keyboard that came with it, which leaves me with the virtual keyboard, and when it's on, i get half the screen to work with. it's time consuming and unproductive to be honest, so i don't use shortcuts.

    blending has always been an issue, i tried the different methods out there, only few that worked and they worked 2 out of 10 times..

    here's another go, this time at a Rembrandt's, i like the brush strokes on this one, no other reason why i picked it..

    i spent 1hr 15mins, i've used a grid this time, these paintings are really hard to copy. i couldn't even get the values close this time around. and since blending is an issue, i can't get the roundness of the figure.

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    yea thats way better, keep it up...heres a link to a blending vid hope this helps, also I only put the lines in to help you see how far you were off, don't rely on a grid all the time, try to just eyeball it.
    As for the shortcuts I'm assuming you have photoshop, so go into Edit/Keyboard shortcuts/ then once in there got to Image/ then scroll down to you find, flip canvas horizontally and vertically, their you can assign keyboard shortcuts, like I said I use F1 and F2 but its upto you, it makes a big difference seeing your painting being flipped over.

    anyway hope that helps.

    Edit: ok just realized what a Asus Slate EP121 was, yes no keyboard would make it very hard and slow I assume, having one makes it easier to scroll back, undo, zooming in and out, changing brush sizes, flipping canvas and so much more... anyways keep it up

    Last edited by halfdolla; March 7th, 2014 at 05:14 PM.
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    Thanks for the input halfdolla.. i'm going try and add blending exercises every time i'm painting.. the picture above is the actual convas i'm working on, do i need to work on bigger one and then reduce it to a playing card size or similar to the above size?

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    Hi maXmood. #1 is a great start. Considering you did it in an hour and you cannot utilize hotkeys, I commend you. It's interesting- even though #2 is more successful in terms of the figure's physical likeness, I think #1 is more successful in terms of the spirit of this assignment because you got the overall big picture of the composition more closely matched. Don't forget that you are supposed to include your observations about the composition of each piece, trying to incorporate terms learned in the video, to get more out of these studies.

    . . . i mainly focused on the bigger shapes and their values.
    I think those are the most important things to focus on. Try to get those two things the best you can before you start worrying about the details. On #2, I think you started detailing too early. You could have made a pass with a bigger brush on his forehead and hair to get the values better, and roughed in the shapes of his clothing a little more accurately. I think that would have been a wiser choice rather than adding in those wrinkles in at this stage. It would have come closer to the big picture of the composition if you got the values and big shapes in. Once you get more comfortable getting in those values and big shapes, then you can work on blending and rendering. Take more time if you need it.

    i like the brush strokes on this one, no other reason why i picked it..
    Hey, that's not a bad reason to choose this painting, but remember that this assignment is called "Composition 1.1" I would suggest choosing a few based on compositions you like, rather than just brushstrokes. Don't be afraid to pick things other than portraits. They seem simple, but in a way they are almost harder because I think they are more subtle and people can really spot when something is off in a face.

    I think it's important to push yourself, but to also be kind to yourself. Remember that your brain needs time to process things. With every piece you do, you are improving, even if it seems like you aren't. I read a lot of blogs of professional artists. I've noticed that quite a few of them have said that sometimes they feel like they have no idea what they are doing. . . that they have fear that what they are working on is awkward and it's hard. . .but they push through that feeling and continue on, and they are able to work it out.

    Sorry for that spiel, but I'm kind of getting the vibe that you're feeling a bit lost right now. Stick with it! Be kind to yourself. You can do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpysaur View Post
    Hi maXmood. #1 is a great start. Considering you did it in an hour and you cannot utilize hotkeys, I commend you. It's interesting- even though #2 is more successful in terms of the figure's physical likeness, I think #1 is more successful in terms of the spirit of this assignment because you got the overall big picture of the composition more closely matched. Don't forget that you are supposed to include your observations about the composition of each piece, trying to incorporate terms learned in the video, to get more out of these studies.



    I think those are the most important things to focus on. Try to get those two things the best you can before you start worrying about the details. On #2, I think you started detailing too early. You could have made a pass with a bigger brush on his forehead and hair to get the values better, and roughed in the shapes of his clothing a little more accurately. I think that would have been a wiser choice rather than adding in those wrinkles in at this stage. It would have come closer to the big picture of the composition if you got the values and big shapes in. Once you get more comfortable getting in those values and big shapes, then you can work on blending and rendering. Take more time if you need it.


    Hey, that's not a bad reason to choose this painting, but remember that this assignment is called "Composition 1.1" I would suggest choosing a few based on compositions you like, rather than just brushstrokes. Don't be afraid to pick things other than portraits. They seem simple, but in a way they are almost harder because I think they are more subtle and people can really spot when something is off in a face.

    I think it's important to push yourself, but to also be kind to yourself. Remember that your brain needs time to process things. With every piece you do, you are improving, even if it seems like you aren't. I read a lot of blogs of professional artists. I've noticed that quite a few of them have said that sometimes they feel like they have no idea what they are doing. . . that they have fear that what they are working on is awkward and it's hard. . .but they push through that feeling and continue on, and they are able to work it out.

    Sorry for that spiel, but I'm kind of getting the vibe that you're feeling a bit lost right now. Stick with it! Be kind to yourself. You can do it.
    Thanks for pointing things out..

    like you mentioned, i'm a bit lost as what am i suppose to do.. trying to copy a painting, is only "copying".. learning how to paint, is something else, although i will be picking up how to choose colors wisely and probably how to get proportions better, but this will only be done slowly.

    how does figuring out what the painting say help me be a better painter? also, since this is about composition, i went through alot of master paintings but didn't like any of them because of composition.. is this something i have to force myself to love/like?? i mean, i love different paintings because of the colors, dynamic shapes, brush strokes, and formation, but never of the compositions qualities (emphasis, rhythm, repitition, economy, etc).

    on my next painting, i'll point out the values of the composition for the porpose of this assignment, so i'm following the rules.

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    how does figuring out what the painting say help me be a better painter?
    I would look at it more like- how has the artist arranged the composition? What visual impact do these elements have and how to they affect the piece? Does doing x, y, and z flatten the depth? Does it create energy? Does it make the subject feel trapped- or free? Does it stop the eye- or lead the eye around? Does it focus your eye on one area first? Does it make the painting feel sturdy, or topsy-turvy? Just think about these things as you work on the piece. You just need to include 1 observation minimum, not an essay. It will help you internalize things a little better. It will help you talk about art and give critiques.

    also, since this is about composition, i went through alot of master paintings but didn't like any of them because of composition.. is this something i have to force myself to love/like?? i mean, i love different paintings because of the colors, dynamic shapes, brush strokes, and formation, but never of the compositions qualities (emphasis, rhythm, repitition, economy, etc).
    I think composition affects what you are attracted to, more than you think. After all "colors, dynamic shapes, brush strokes, and formation" are all part of compostion- how they are placed and what you do with them form the composition. Taking the color away just helps you to focus a little more on other elements. Choose paintings you like. Ask yourself how the piece would have been different if they zoomed in on something, or if they had zoomed back further? How would it have changed if it had harsh shadows, or if they made the negative space light instead of dark? How would it be if they made Batman's cape billow in the wind, instead of being still. . .if the rain batman was standing in was slanted instead of falling straight. . . etc, etc.

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    for the next one you do, portrait wise, i want you to start with the images upside down. i think you are getting focused on things like thinking about wrinkles rather than seeing the abstract shapes for what they are. there is lots of great discussion in here and please continue...for now i would like you to really start seeing things as just abstract shapes and values....and turing the images upside down should do that and show you how to start seeing that way more accurately. you will get this. keep up the good work.

    j

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpysaur View Post
    I would look at it more like- how has the artist arranged the composition? What visual impact do these elements have and how to they affect the piece? Does doing x, y, and z flatten the depth? Does it create energy? Does it make the subject feel trapped- or free? Does it stop the eye- or lead the eye around? Does it focus your eye on one area first? Does it make the painting feel sturdy, or topsy-turvy? Just think about these things as you work on the piece. You just need to include 1 observation minimum, not an essay. It will help you internalize things a little better. It will help you talk about art and give critiques.



    I think composition affects what you are attracted to, more than you think. After all "colors, dynamic shapes, brush strokes, and formation" are all part of compostion- how they are placed and what you do with them form the composition. Taking the color away just helps you to focus a little more on other elements. Choose paintings you like. Ask yourself how the piece would have been different if they zoomed in on something, or if they had zoomed back further? How would it have changed if it had harsh shadows, or if they made the negative space light instead of dark? How would it be if they made Batman's cape billow in the wind, instead of being still. . .if the rain batman was standing in was slanted instead of falling straight. . . etc, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    for the next one you do, portrait wise, i want you to start with the images upside down. i think you are getting focused on things like thinking about wrinkles rather than seeing the abstract shapes for what they are. there is lots of great discussion in here and please continue...for now i would like you to really start seeing things as just abstract shapes and values....and turing the images upside down should do that and show you how to start seeing that way more accurately. you will get this. keep up the good work.

    j
    Thanks for the feedback.. i'm taking notes of this. it's getting clearer as what those qualities actually mean and how they affect reading between the lines.

    i'll try and do one more portrait as suggested by JM (i've done the same technique while reading "drawing on the right side of the brain, Betty Edwards" and now i totally ignored it).. i'll also be doing scenes and landscapes after that.

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    this took 3 days, total of 4hrs... blocked values and shapes and file got corrupted.. again blocked and shaded and i lost pen sensitivity on PS.. so im stopping here, looking for something else..

    i see the balance of the figure being in the mid of the scene, not far , not close also the balance of lighting.. repetition is present on the clothes and the variety of wrinkles..

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    Last edited by maXmood; March 13th, 2014 at 07:16 AM.
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    speed will come. make sure your pen drivers are up to date...and your other drivers on your machine are too.

    regarding this piece i want you to be sure that you are choosing very accurate values. don't paint values somewhere that they are not. choose the overall value and start with the biggest shapes. save the tiny values you see in the original for the very end.

    you will get faster at this.

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    speed will come. make sure your pen drivers are up to date...and your other drivers on your machine are too.

    regarding this piece i want you to be sure that you are choosing very accurate values. don't paint values somewhere that they are not. choose the overall value and start with the biggest shapes. save the tiny values you see in the original for the very end.

    you will get faster at this.

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    Thanks JM.. i'm trying to keep up with the assignments here, not sure if i should jump to the paid assignment yet.

    Frazetta, i love his work, who else has the same style of paintings? i would like to look them up and try to get their quality of work..

    on this piece i can see he used overall economy and emphasis on the figure.. i tried to block as much shapes as possible and then went on smaller shapes and decided to ignore alot of the details. i found flipping the canvas is very effective to determine the shapes properly, but i couldn't do that too often. it did help though.. spent around 1.5hr on this one.
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    big improvements maxmood from your previous attempts, your shapes and values are getting way better, keep it up mate.

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    Wow, big improvements in this latest one. The figure and the rock could use better value observations, but overall you are getting to a great place. Well done!

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    Yep totally agree. Big improvement, this looks right on track, nice one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfdolla View Post
    big improvements maxmood from your previous attempts, your shapes and values are getting way better, keep it up mate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpysaur View Post
    Wow, big improvements in this latest one. The figure and the rock could use better value observations, but overall you are getting to a great place. Well done!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bri in the sky View Post
    Yep totally agree. Big improvement, this looks right on track, nice one!
    Thanks guys! means alot.!

    i'm doing one more piece then i'll move to the paid exercises, because at the current pace, it will take me a month to complete 20 and then do the other free assignment.

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    agreed on the values...you are making good progress. try introducing a texture brush on paintings like this where there is so much surface. it will help with both feel and atmosphere, which are important elements in some of these master paintings. you are on the right track. keep it up. jm

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    got caught up pretty quickly with details on this one.. and whenever i go back to doing shapes and values, i find myself getting smaller brushes and detailing.. spent 2hrs on it..urgh!

    again i chose Frazetta because i love his work. this piece of art has economy, rhythm, and a point of interest where he distinguishes the figures with dark values surrounding them to make them pop up and in different directions.. enough for you to make out what's happening in the scene.

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    It is totally ok that it is taking you time. Try spending more time working on both images upside down and flip them horizontally as well.

    Three things I keep pointing folks back to...and they are very basic. You are on the right track and can do this.

    a. slow down and be sure your shapes are roughed in and mapped out very very accurately. flip the images horizontally and vertically more if need be.
    b. do a pass toward the end where you double check and triple check all your values, starting with the largest shapes.
    c. make sure you are accurately rendering your edges...don't leave things too soft in areas.


    You are getting 95 percent the way there on each of the above and the goal is to hit 100 percent on each. It takes some patience but if you develop these habits from the start you will find it easy by the end.

    Keep up the great work.


    Jason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley View Post
    It is totally ok that it is taking you time. Try spending more time working on both images upside down and flip them horizontally as well.

    Three things I keep pointing folks back to...and they are very basic. You are on the right track and can do this.

    a. slow down and be sure your shapes are roughed in and mapped out very very accurately. flip the images horizontally and vertically more if need be.
    b. do a pass toward the end where you double check and triple check all your values, starting with the largest shapes.
    c. make sure you are accurately rendering your edges...don't leave things too soft in areas.


    You are getting 95 percent the way there on each of the above and the goal is to hit 100 percent on each. It takes some patience but if you develop these habits from the start you will find it easy by the end.

    Keep up the great work.


    Jason
    i'm noting down those tips.. thanks.

    i'm still using grid lines to map my shapes, i tried without it couple of times, but it isn't working for me.. should i continue with this ? or do you have any other suggestions? thanks

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    to wean off the grid try the next image with fewer grid squares...and the next with fewer...eventually you will get off it. it is fine to use at any time with these...but we want to be sure you can do it without it for as much of the image as possible. keep it up. jm

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