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Thread: Dayle - Composition 1.1

  1. #31
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    Thanks. I have a mental checklist and just need to keep going through the process. Only one tonight though, been a busy day and need to get some rest. Actually need to find some new paintings too, it's a great opportunity to expand my reference library.

    Study 27_Prometheus; William Etty

    1 hr 5mins

    I only discovered this tonight. What stood out immediately was the composition and square canvas. By taking these geometries and the symmetrical human body Etty seems to have had fun with the pose, perspective and balance to this piece. I like how the pose creates a dominant diagonal line that is perpendicular to the arrow, it gives it more impact and feeling that the arrow has torn through the painting as well as his body.

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  3. #32
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    Double check your overall values on this, and I would suggest integrating a texture brush to get some of the same shape and edge and surface qualities. nice start though. I look forward to another update. Keep it up!

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  5. #33
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    Thanks Jason. Yeah I saw it was too bright but struggled to adjust it sufficiently. When I have a second pass I'll be more careful.

    Tonights work. Not got time to write much but wanted to post what I've done.

    Study 28_Mary Freer; John Constable

    1 hr 20 mins

    Study 29_By Summer Sea; Herbert Draper

    1 hr 20 mins.

    I think this is my new favourite painting. Definitely going to put a few more hours into this study.

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  6. #34
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    I spent all day looking at this, feeling embarrassed... Not sure why it's so bad, for a second I thought I knew what I was doing but this says otherwise! Anyway I spent more time on it tonight.

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  7. #35
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    Adjusted studies 22 & 23

    I spent about an hour on each of these (I think).

    I wanted to improve the accuracy of proportions and get better edges. I was going to go round the others too but would prefer to do some new ones this week.

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  8. #36
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    Nice work getting these roughed in. You are doing great with your shapes. If you slow down a little and choose the perfect sized brush for the marks you will be even closer, like the dark lines in the window for example. If you choose a fatter brush you have to go in and fix...choosing the perfect sized brush for the job will save you time and get you even closer.

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  10. #37
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    Thanks. Yes, how did you know, I often am lazy moving my left hand to adjust brush size and just keep going with what I am using.

    More!

    Study 30_Creation of Adam; Michelangelo

    1 hr 45mins

    I was wondering how I would cope with something so complex. After 50 minutes I was still struggling with value and proportions but wanted to keep going, hence the overrunning time. I noticed now the heads are too big which messed up my shapes and measuring. Also, at first glance I thought there was about four heads, but there's loads... I'm sure they were just appearing before me!

    I love how the figures pop out of the composition (I really need to see this in real life) light on dark on light gives a great 3d quality. Anatomically amazing painting.

    Study 31_A man seated at a reading table in a lofty room; A follower of Rembrandt

    1 hr 10 mins

    This piece at first appears to be silhouette and high contrast only. Lots of economy and focus. After awhile my eyes started to pick up all sorts of mid tones and details and at the very end of my time on it I noticed the door hinges and horizontal crack in the wall. This was the first painting I felt like I was in control of it. Although the man is 10% bigger in my copy.

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  11. #38
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    Study 32_Head of Christ; Franz Von Stuck

    1 hr 10 mins

    I really like the expression in this piece and the texture with focus created with the sharp edges

    Study 33_Syrinx; Arthur Hacker

    1 hr 10 mins

    I once spent 20 minutes sketching this in front of me at Manchester art gallery. It's one of my favourite paintings. I love the unconventional composition and how everything emphasises the vertical female form. Rhythm and repetition from the texture of the reeds and focus with contrast in values around her shoulders. This is another painting I want to spend a few more hours on. I might put my best bits in my sketchbook when they are finished.

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  12. #39
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    i knew because you have a lot of marks in the right place but they are too fat or too thin at times and that just suggests that you are not reaching for the slider...which means a lot of rework later so i want you to avoid doing that. save yourself some headaches by being diligent.

    keep up the good work. you are on the right track...and i would like to see you get these as accurately as you can.

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  14. #40
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    Thanks Jason - I was about to give up on these, but as that clock ticked down I realised it was an opportunity I couldn't miss out on. These have been a great help and I know I have a lot more to give, thanks again.

    Adjusted studies 23 and 27

    I wanted to get better shapes on the Goya study and better values on the Etty study, about 90 minutes on each

    Study 34_Saturn seen from Titan; Chelsey Bonestell

    1 hr

    I really like the compositional framing to this piece with the V shape the rocks make and the diagonal angle of the rings and surfaces. This was done in an hour, I tried to plan better, choose the brush size before apply marks(sometimes I caught myself still using whatever size it was on and having to correct afterwards). No flipping though or adjustments, because I wanted to see how close I could get in a single pass. I shall keep pushing with these until I improve.

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  15. #41
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    Study 35_The return of the 'william lee' from Calcutta; John Ward

    1 hr 10 mins + 10 mins correcting shapes and values.

    I think the proportions are off on this because the starting canvas was too different. Anyway, I really like this paintings composition. With all the varying sizes and positions of ships, it creates balance and continuity whilst framing the focal point and main ship. John Ward has some really great maritime paintings.

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  16. #42
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    these are beautiful...you are so close in shape, value, and edge that I think that you are getting about 95 percent there. All three of these categories can get even closer. I really want to push you to get as accurate as you can in all three. I don't have any serious crits other than to tell you to double and triple check and flip the images a lot...horizontally and vertically...make a pass on all three as you are about to wrap up. Keep up the great work.

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  18. #43
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    Thank you Jason, that's really kind of you to say.

    I didn't want to spend an hour tonight on a study only to have to massively fix it later on. Also I try and apply the feedback but get panicked when on a time limit. So tonight I spent all evening on one piece trying to get it as close as possible. Aside from the face I am mostly happy. I thought I got the features ok but when flipped it they were all over the place.

    Study 36_La Perle; William Bouguereau

    One of my favourite paintings. I love the striking values and composition. Embarrassingly though, I only realised what I was looking at about 5 minutes ago! I thought she was on a beach with a wave... not in a clam, makes more sense now! I'm going to be very tired at work tomorrow, but at least I can take some pride in what tonight has produced. Thanks for the motivation guys.

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  19. #44
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    very nice job on your values and edges...your shapes could use just a bit more care, especially in the face and head...flipping the image horizontally and vertically...both of them...should help you get there. keep up the great work.

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  21. #45
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    Thanks. Yes, this morning I noticed the knee position and foot was off too. Just to let you know I will be moving, hopefully at the weekend, so if I don't post for a week or two that's the reason.

    Here is an update (slight improvement) on yesterdays study. I will keep stalking everybody else's threads until I can continue so keep up the great work everybody!

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  22. #46
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    nice work...ok..will watch for your updates then. safe travels.

    the main thing on this one now is getting that likeness and mood/feeling of her face...then it's kind of textural detail to some of the shapes...but overall this is a very good study and needs that extra five percent now to take it the rest of the way home.

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  24. #47
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    Great job so far mr Dayle. Agree with what Jason said, those areas in the water and background are crying out for some texture. Good luck with the move, be safe.

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  26. #48
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    Thanks both of you. I don't like change but had to move. It's done now and I'm just trying to get used to my new routine. Tonight is the first night I've been able to focus on art properly, not too successfully but glad to be back.

    Oh, Bri in the sky, That last study I did was because i was inspired by you. I was not going to do anything that evening but after looking at your studies I had to do it, thanks!

    Study 37_Morning Glory(?); Jules Lefebvre

    3 hrs

    I really like the balance and shapes to this one. The economy of fabric and detail with the flowers gives the composition balance and unity. I know I need to pay attention to the shapes, the head is off. But the edges and values seem to be getting closer, although I am not seeing them any easier.

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  28. #49
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    Your scale is off Dayle and that will cause you endless problems. You are short on width. It's imperative to get the canvas the same size as the original or it will always look off. This is how I go about it.

    Use the square marquee tool and select the original. Next, extend the canvas more than 2 times then copy and paste original so they are side by side. I usually leave a space in the middle. Now create a clipping mask (of copied original) and fill it in with one value, then delete underlying original. Now you can be certain you have a 1:1 ratio. You are now good to start. There are probably better ways to do it, but that is a quick way I figured out.
    You still did a great job though, keep it up.

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  30. #50
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    Bri in the sky - Thanks for the explanation, I will try it that way tonight.

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  31. #51
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    Study 38_The birth of Venus: Alexandre Cabanel

    1 hr 30 mins

    This has always been one of my favourite paintings. I love the volumes and shapes in this. It has a great sense of rhythm and movement to it with the angels celebrating at the sight of Venus.

    I didn't want to get sucked into the details tonight, especially as I am not getting the big shapes and values right. So, thanks Bri, I used the masking method and duplicated the canvas (never did this before as it felt like cheating). Then put in the values, shapes and edges without zooming in.

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  32. #52
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    Hehe It's not cheating mate. You are just setting up the canvas quickly and are assured they are both the same size. Once you fill it in with one opaque value you can't see anything underneath. Also just delete the underlying copy layer and the mask is then gone and you are left with a grey canvas. Like I say, there might be a quicker and better method of setting the canvas up, but I've yet to see one.

    I think you are right on track with the last one, it's just a case of how long you want to spend on it. Some harder edges around parts of the figures would help it pop a bit more. A little texture here and there. Great job for the time though.

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  34. #53
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    Just noticed a mistake in the set up. 'delete underlying layer' Should be 'merge it down' then you are left with a grey canvas the exact same size.

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  36. #54
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    Bri in the sky - Thanks, it did help me a lot! I still lost proportions though so guess I need to try harder.

    Tonight was meant to be a quick 1 hour max... I got carried away again!

    Study 39_Pin up (I don't know the name of the piece); Gil Elvgren

    2 hrs 45mins (approx.)

    I really like the pin up style and have wanted to attempt a study of one. I chose this one because of the great cast shadows and values. Not because of the Tortoise, I swear I never even saw it!

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  37. #55
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    Ok now you don't need to worry about the canvas throwing you off, you can concentrate on the painting

    First things first, lose the big black bar it's very distracting. Go for a smaller space or none at all. If you have a space then extend the canvas all around at the end like a frame. Think about the presentation. Not that I can talk hehe mine are somtimes very sloppy.

    The painting- Great work on the values and edges buddy, the next step is pushing the accuracy a bit further. You are not far away at all, but if you follow a few steps you will get them even closer.
    Look at the top of the head now draw your eye along horizontal and note the size of the negative space. See the difference?
    Try using the square marquee tool like a measuring tool. In traditional, a paint brush is used to take measurements, it's the same principle.
    Just pull the marquee tool from one side right across the two paintings to gauge where things are off on the horizontals. Or you could draw projection lines across on a seperate layer. There are many ways to go about it. Even people who do not use any visual aids, are always thinking about intersection points, ghosting their eyes along verticals and horizontals. Can use the marquee tool also to check verticals, by just pulling it down from the corner of the canvas then move it across to check your own.
    Think of visual aids as a way to help train the eye to see mistakes. You'll find the more accurate you become the less you need any guide. But the techniques are always there should you run into any difficulty.

    Remember, everything I say is just an opinion you don't have to listen to any of it


    Anyhow, keep pushing buddy, you're doing a great job.

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  39. #56
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    Also gotta say. Study 39! Your dedication is so inspiring, it will all pay off in the end. Great stuff.

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  41. #57
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    yep...agreed...your dedication is inspiring. The most recent is so well done. There is a bit of value changes happening in the closest hip that could be reinvestigated. The shapes you are getting are improved in the past three pieces alone. Three back and her head is smaller and you made her more thin than she is, then the next study is much closer (cabanal), then this one is really close. great job.


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  43. #58
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    Thanks for the feedback! My dedication is frustration not inspiring to me, every time I look I see things wrong and go over and over again. Oh well. From now on when I do these I am not timing just getting as close as I can. On another note, it must be paying off because I was practically accused of cheating, and was told something I drew looked too good for me!

    Study 40_The Gates of Dawn; Herbert Draper

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  44. #59
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    nothing looks too good for you. you can do anything you put your mind to. These are masterworks and as you get better at doing these all your other work will step up too.

    value wise you seem a little bit stronger in contrast with this one. remember to double check and triple check your values...as well as your positive and negative shapes. best to check shapes first though as it is easier to make adjustments to value after that.

    experiment with your texture brushes to try to capture some of that surface as the surface is very important to the edges and the atmosphere.

    keep it up.


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  46. #60
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    Thanks again! I am trying to follow these steps.

    As it's easter I wanted to do a study of a religious painting.

    Study 41_Christ on the cross; Rembrandt

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