Art: Vanishing Points outside of the paper?

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  1. #1
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    Vanishing Points outside of the paper?

    Hello.
    I would like to know what kind of traditional tools or techniques one could use to produce a perspective view with vanishing points that lie outside of the paper or canvas.

    Consider the following, which were not done digitally:












    Is there a formal name for this kind of perspective?

    Thank you,
    Rafael.

    Last edited by Kryzon; November 27th, 2013 at 12:10 AM.
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  3. #2
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrolinead

    I don't think there's a "special" name for this kind of perspective because honestly, your vanishing points are going to lie off the paper almost every time. It's just 2-point or 3-point perspective.

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  4. #3
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    Use bigger paper, table or wall, or work digital...

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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    The only way in which I have worked with it has been by having an extra layer of paper underneath my actual drawing. A bigger cheap paper, maybe newspaper or something that don't matter, and then carrying the lines out on that paper to vanishing points there, so that the lines in the actual drawing will be correct. Thats when you want to actually construct the perspective grid, but if you are looking at a view you are going to draw, you could meassure shapes with your pencil or other in relation to eachother, and figure out the angles by comparing them to vertical and horisontal lines to see how tilted they should be, and that way you could also draw a scene where the vanishing points are way outside the picture.

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    Hello.
    After your replies and some more researching, it seems that there are several solutions with each being more appropriate for certain situations. All of them deal with traditional media.

    • That Centrolinead tool is interesting; I had never heard of anything like that before. It seems to be the fastest way to do the perspective lines, although you would need the fixed pegs to slide the tool. You could do that by taping a couple of upside down nails etc. so it's just temporary.
    http://www.craigelliottgallery.com/j...nead-tool.html

    • An older thread here at CA.org has a page from a Loomis book with instructions on how to manually sketch the lines by dividing segments proportionally. This method should work best when you have only the space of your sheet\canvas available:


    • Use any sort of methods to represent the entire lines coming from the distant vanishing points, such as:

    - Using a big ruler or yardstick to draw the lines directly from the vanishing points on the table (be the points nails taped to the table, marks you make on the table using tape etc.).
    http://www.drawingprofessor.com/tuto...nts/index.html

    - Using a taped piece of string, as described in the following (taken from this source):

    • If you're working digitally, you can increase the canvas size, draw the vanishing points and perspective lines, then crop the canvas back to the original size.

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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryzon View Post
    • If you're working digitally, you can increase the canvas size, draw the vanishing points and perspective lines, then crop the canvas back to the original size.
    In Photoshop you can use paths for perspective construction without extending the canvas.

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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  8. #7
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    You can use arcs on the sides then use a square touching at two point on the arc,the square will generate lines for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mburrell View Post
    You can use arcs on the sides then use a square touching at two point on the arc,the square will generate lines for you.
    Hello. I don't quite understand.
    Could you elaborate on that method?

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  10. #9
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    Ok A circle has a center point. To make a circle you take a string or straight edge with one edge on the center point and the other end you can strike an arc (part of the circle). Your center point must be on the the horizon line, make and second arc on the other side with center point on horizon line. Then using and equilateral triangle. mark the center of the short side then line up two bottom corners on arc mark center of short side and point where equal sides meet draw line between two then repeat in different opposition for another line. If you have a T square you can do the same thing faster, but you have to off set your alinement mark to compensate for 1/2 the width of the T-square bar to make it centered. Here is crappy sketch to show you. sorry for the mess.here is another ideaATTACH]1872670[/ATTACH]

    Name:  vanishing point.jpg
Views: 485
Size:  313.1 KB

    Here is link to down load Andrew Loomis books the one on drawing address perspective in detail http://illustrationage.com/2013/04/0...ion-downloads/

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    Ok A circle has a center point. To make a circle you take a string or straight edge with one edge on the center point and the other end you can strike an arc (part of the circle). Your center point must be on the the horizon line, make and second arc on the other side with center point on horizon line. Then using and equilateral triangle. mark the center of the short side then line up two bottom corners on arc mark center of short side and point where equal sides meet draw line between two then repeat in different opposition for another line. If you have a T square you can do the same thing faster, but you have to off set your alinement mark to compensate for 1/2 the width of the T-square bar to make it centered. Here is crappy sketch to show you. Sorry for the mess. Name:  vanishing point.jpg
Views: 485
Size:  313.1 KB
    Here is another idea:

    Name:  vanishing point2.jpg
Views: 456
Size:  210.0 KB
    Here is link to down load Andrew Loomis books the one on drawing address perspective in detail http://illustrationage.com/2013/04/0...ion-downloads/

    Last edited by mburrell; December 8th, 2013 at 12:31 PM.
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mburrell View Post
    Ok A circle has a center point. To make a circle you take a string or straight edge with one edge on the center point and the other end you can strike an arc (part of the circle). Your center point must be on the the horizon line, make and second arc on the other side with center point on horizon line. Then using and equilateral triangle. mark the center of the short side then line up two bottom corners on arc mark center of short side and point where equal sides meet draw line between two then repeat in different opposition for another line.
    While this is correct in theory, I am afraid it is hard to pull this off accurately, especially if your vp is further away, and the associated circle is bigger...

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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  13. #12
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    The arcs just have to be bigger than picture plan if the end points are squared up and a middle line is made to line up with horizon it will work. If I was so concern I would make two templates to work from that would fit drawing table.
    one right and one left. using the floor to lay them out first make horizon line then make multiple center or vanishing points striking multiple arcs. Heck you can label them as to distance if you want. Do it on Bristol board. card stock whatever. mount them to both sides of table for guides. Remember as the radius gets bigger the arc flattens out the arc is as tall as will work for you.

    If you make some scales as in solution 2 you could make many combinations and label them. just line up horizon lines and make the scales perpendicular to horizon and bang you set your rule on the matching number and layout lines.

    If you will just trust yourself you can just do it by feel. Or by feel with an object set off to the sides to visually help line up with.

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  14. #13
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    Hello.
    I understand it now, thank you for the sketch.
    This method is equivalent to manually reproducing the behaviour of the centrolinead tool.



    The vanishing points are located on the horizon line and lie outside of the canvas area.
    The vanishing points are considered the centers of large circles that intersect the canvas area. The intersecting part becomes the arcs that you can see. The circles don't necessarily have to be of the same size - this won't alter the result.
    To make the large arcs you can use a compass tool, a french-curve tool or also a thread taped to the table that you hold with a pencil (although you could do the perspective lines directly with the thread, as mentioned on post #5).

    If you draw a chord of the circle (a line segment that intersects the circle at two distinct points), you can find the perspective line for your drawing by determining the perpendicular bisector of this chord with a compass tool. You don't need to use a triangle for this. The perpendicular bisector links with the vanishing point, so this is your perspective line.
    To find the perpendicular bisector of a line segment (in this case, the chord), see here: http://www.mathopenref.com/constbisectline.html

    Last edited by Kryzon; December 9th, 2013 at 12:49 AM.
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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryzon View Post
    To make the large arcs you can use a compass tool, a french-curve tool or also a thread taped to the table that you hold with a pencil (although you could do the perspective lines directly with the thread, as mentioned on post #5).
    No. Do not use a french curve for parts of a circle...

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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