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  1. #61
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    This is for the newcomers like myself who want to know how to improve at gestures and life drawing specifically - I ran across several threads last night with great life drawing demos and advice:

    KChen
    Ron Lemen (Fred Flickstone)
    E M Gist

    All excellent - so glad these are still online!!

    * * *

    Drew slower on these (90s) and at first tried to draw limiting lines top bottom and both sides as most of those demos showed. Wow were my boxes wildly off!!! Still though drew more carefully, and started doing multiples on each page (save some money on newsprint!):

    Name:  11-09-gestures.gif
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  3. #62
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    Jealous of that studio! Nice first paintings too.

  4. #63
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    Thanks! It's the only room in the house with 2 windows where I can set up cross-ventilation - but now that I got it all set up winter is here and I can't open them anyway…
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  5. #64
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    Name:  11-10-gestures.gif
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    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  6. #65
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    I won't be posting gestures here anymore, unless I go back to doing them on the tablet - it just takes waaay too long to scan them all in (each page as 2 separate scans), piece them all together, clean up and post. It's enough that I do them. Meanwhile, I started a couple of academic-style drawings.

    Name:  Ronda-11-12.gif
Views: 1350
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    Didn't spend nearly enough time measuring on this one. Everything is way off.

    Name:  Marloes---11-14.gif
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    Measuring a lot more and more carefully on this one, and working with charcoal pencil rather than graphite. I think I'm still trying to define shapes too early - my lines at this point should be straight and a few smooth curves maybe. Next time I'll do better.

    Stressin me out man!! Lol, like when I first started doing gestures. I know that's a good thing - means I'm pushing past my comfort zone. So growing pains.
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  7. #66
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    Little progress --

    Name:  Board setup 03.jpg
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    Man, working with charcoal is really a whole different animal from graphite - especially for trying to do fine detailed work like this!! It's like the tip is chunky (except immediately after sharpening) and constantly eroding as fast as you can draw, and it crumbles and spreads across the lines - makes blunt shapeless blobs rather than sharp controlled lines, I can only seem to get maybe 3 values with it… I'm really going to have to rely on being able to fix it up later with erasing and some white conte.
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  8. #67
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    Little more progress

    Name:  Board setup-5.jpg
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    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  9. #68
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    Name:  11-15-exercises.gif
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    .. aaaand some exercises. Workin' them basics.
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  10. #69
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    Wow, I've been a real drawing machine lately!! Like - a BROKEN one..

    Name:  11-14-2.gif
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Size:  457.0 KBName:  11-14-1.gif
Views: 2853
Size:  164.5 KBName:  11-14.gif
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    I've never tried to explicitly draw in the plane breaks of the body before (not that I got them right here). This is something I need to start doing. And don't even ask about the girl with one dwarf arm and one giant one - I know how horrible that is. Need to pay a lot more attention to proportions in the early stages.
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  11. #70
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    your two latest figure drawing look really good. And the latest ufc render IS coming together nicely.

  12. #71
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    Thanks for the boost man!! To me they really don't look very good - sloppy and ill-proportioned. I'm wondering what happened - I used to be able to do better. Could be largely because almost every drawing I do now is on a different kind of paper or with a different media, and/or because all of a sudden I'm drawing totally differently than I'm used to (working from reference, trying to do the academic type stuff). Your figures look much better. I think I need to stop trying to do them fast - I'll do slowsketches for a while rather than quicksketches. Hopefully that helps. Maybe just drawing like I'm used to will bring back the desire to draw again - that seems to have largely evaporated around the time I started switching over to all this new stuff. I think I need to ease into the new ideas rather than quit cold turkey and try to instantly draw differently.

    I'm starting to like using charcoal pencils though - I like the shading on the last page of forms (though I can see now the shadows are too far forward on the spheres).
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  13. #72
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    Got some more done on Ronda - not finished yet though.

    Name:  Ronda-11-14.jpg
Views: 1207
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    Man, that background was a headache!! Should have used charcoal for it - I'm thinking about trying a hybrid with charcoal and graphite. And I HATE myself for placing her so close to the edge of the paper, so the microperf cuts right through her shoulder!! Plan better…
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  14. #73
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    I really like your pencil studies they wanna make me
    draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw specially the
    little sewing roll looks fantastic.

  15. #74
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    Thanks Iven!! Just checked your sketchbook - you have some really cool stuff in there!!
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  16. #75
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    Ronda

    Name:  Ronda.gif
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  17. #76
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    Nice work. By any chance did you happen to use the clone brush in photoshop to touch up the left side? The backside of her arm looks kind of mangily, and in the top left I can see some repetitious patterns indicative of the clone tool.

  18. #77
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    Good eye!! I know, it's pretty obvious - I wanted to get rid of the micro-perf line cutting through her arm and all the way up the page, and I didn't put in enough time to make it invisible. Mostly because I'm not entirely sure I'm done with it yet, as far as pencil work. The clone stamp is the only way to really work over such a textury piece with visible pencil marks everywhere. Also did some pretty extensive plastic surgery on her face, and I'm thinking I should maybe work on the logo/lettering in PS too - don't really like the way that looks.

    I think the main reason the edge of the arm looks weird is because I was trying to draw right up against the spiral binding. I should definitely work on that some more digitally.
    Last edited by Darkstrider; November 23rd, 2013 at 10:25 PM.
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  19. #78
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    Ronda yellow

    Spent most of the day doing countless little tweaks - man, I gotta stop now!!

    Name:  RondaYello.gif
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  20. #79
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    Name:  RondaYello2.gif
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    Ugh… it doesn't even look like a drawing anymore, or like a painting or anything really. Kinda looks like a photograph that I threw some weird PS filters over - not what I want for my art. Kinda neat, but if I try this again I want it to not look like a photo.
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  21. #80
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    Ronda revisited

    Name:  Ronda.gif
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    Still bugs me that it looks more like a photomanip than a drawing, which is annoying after all the hard work I put into drawing/painting it. But at the very least it's been a massive exercise in meticulous work. I finally broke down and decided to do the logo/lettering pretty nearly realistic, and while in a way it looks good, in another way it doesn't. I want to PAINT - not do lettering and logos dammit!! That requires an entirely different skill set that I'm not interested in developing, so I guess I need to not do these realistically. And I STILL need to find a decent way to do the logos.. (or maybe it's time to stop with the WMMA series)
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  22. #81
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    You are not going to like me
    Two things about the logo (don't look at it as a logo… just a piece of intricate detail)

    1. the green appears to be solid/flat, with no texture in it. So it stands out against the rest of the piece which is all textured
    2. where you masked out the old logo with black you used a solid flat black, that doesn't match her top. Maybe your monitor calibration is off, so you wouldn't notice this, but it's the first thing that stuck out at me.

    Can you provide a screen cap of the original logo on her top?

    Certainly there's a fine balance between getting the logo to "look right" while still being painterly. The old one was painterly, but this one seems more pasted on. Hope that helps.





    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstrider View Post
    Name:  Ronda.gif
Views: 701
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    Still bugs me that it looks more like a photomanip than a drawing, which is annoying after all the hard work I put into drawing/painting it. But at the very least it's been a massive exercise in meticulous work. I finally broke down and decided to do the logo/lettering pretty nearly realistic, and while in a way it looks good, in another way it doesn't. I want to PAINT - not do lettering and logos dammit!! That requires an entirely different skill set that I'm not interested in developing, so I guess I need to not do these realistically. And I STILL need to find a decent way to do the logos.. (or maybe it's time to stop with the WMMA series)

  23. #82
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    No, I appreciate it actually. It still doesn't feel done to me anyway (aside from the logo) - I'm thinking it needs a little stronger highlighting in places plus a few more finishing touches, but you're right. I can see the flat black around the logo a little bit, but I excused it as the logo having a different texture than the fabric itself.. not sure it's a perfect oval though for that to work. And if it jumped out at you then it needs to be changed, thanks for the fresh eyes. I agree totally about the green swooshies - they need some texture to match. I was thinking of the texture as skin texture only, but then it does show up in her hair and on the bar behind her too, as well as subtlely on the sports bra.

    Here's the original - I couldn't make the colors work without it becoming the new focal area, so I toned it down severely:

    Name:  logo.jpg
Views: 644
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    I also decided against the thin purple outline obviously.
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  24. #83
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    Name:  RondaRevised01.gif
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    Ok, will this pass muster?
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  25. #84
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    I think I maintain the belief that if you have a good painting, but can execute the logo it destroys the illusion.
    So, what I would suggest is using their real logo as a template. (I use a similar process in my day job all the time)

    Use google to source a high res version of their logo.
    simplify it -- in this case I roughly recreated it because I knew that font was Serpentine ICG
    Paste it in and warp it to wrap around the far boob… use the source image as reference. In fact I pasted in the source image over your painting and scaled it to roughly match (think of it as a guide). the I took my rough logo and warped it to fit the source. delete the guide layer and voila, now your logo should be in perspective and you can either paint on top of it or whatever… Sorry, I am doing this quickly on my lunch break and am really now thinking, or typing clearly.

    Attachment 1866035
    Attachment 1866036

  26. #85
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    Ah, the ol' Paste-n-Trace? That's how I did the logos on the 2nd image back on page 1. If I wanted this to look like corporate advertising that's the way I'd go, but this is supposed to be an exercise in drawing accuracy, even though I'm achieving most of the accuracy through repeated tweaking with the liquify filter and transform tools. But it's still me seeing the mistakes and correcting them through my own efforts. Basically I have a hatred of corporate logos and the way they're plastered blatantly all over everything - EVERYTHING in our world. At least they're subtle and discreet on most clothing, furniture and kitchenware etc, but on just about any other product you can buy it's garish, bright, and high contrast, meant to automatically catch the eye and turn life into an endless stream of commercials. I hate the way the corporations force us to be their whores, to advertise all over in our homes and on our persons, and the way it destroys the beauty and harmony of the world. I suppose one way to deal with this would be satirically, go ahead and make the logos even brighter and more fluorescent - make them bigger and plaster even more of them all over everything. If I was doing satirical GN's or something I might go that way, but I don't want to make art that's deliberately ugly. So even though I really do appreciate your critique (I have modified it drastically because of it) - I think I'm going with this:

    Name:  Ronda.gif
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  27. #86
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    Dude, the easiest way to do that logo is to use the warp tool, to wrap the logo around the figure.

    The logo isnt important to the composition, the detail draws the eye a lot, unless thats what your looking for.

  28. #87
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    (replacing my initial Butbutbut reaction):

    Name:  RondaFixed2.gif
Views: 645
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    Yep - it looks better. Lol, I hate that I have like 27 slightly different versions of this posted here, but oh well, at least they're all improvements. Thanks for pushing me beyond my comfort zone guys!!
    Last edited by Darkstrider; December 2nd, 2013 at 02:08 AM.
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  29. #88
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    Tons of awesome studies here I can't wait to see your imagination stuff and future updates. ;3

  30. #89
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    Thanks - I know, I need to get back to imagination pieces at some point.
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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  31. #90
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    Name:  12-14-13-QS-01.gif
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    1st sketch done with my new Primo Elite Grande carbon pencil by General's - it's rich and dark, not shiny like graphite, and much less smeary/crumbly than charcoal. I'm really diggin it, as well as their other new entry, the Kimberly 9xxB - it's a graphite/charcoal mix, not crumbly/smeary at all, but not quite as dark and responsive as the Grande.
    Last edited by Darkstrider; December 14th, 2013 at 03:05 PM.
    "Figure drawing prepares you for painting at a high level" - Jeff Watts

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