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Thread: Old master drawings, construction, synthetic form and Glenn Vilppu.

  1. #27
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    eezacque@xs4all.nl : I have seen some images from it, but do not own the book or the files, no. There are actually a couple books released just recently by one of the instructors at the school, there is one on basic drawing, one on painting, and perhaps another one or two. I think most are just in Russian, but English versions can be bought as pdf's.



    Okay this stuff is too interesting for me to just stop with that one post! It takes quite some time to organize all the files, and upload them and write it all up though, so this post will be all I will do today.

    The images in this post are really interesting to me as they show much more process and construction. Again, I have more files on hand, but I just cherry picked some that show construction or are particularly well executed in my opinion. They all hail from a separate school than the above images I think, the folder I took them from is called Saint Petersburg Art and Industry Academy of Baron Alexander von Stieglitz. Anyways, take a look, this is some very cool stuff! To my eyes I see many more similarities to the methods used in the USA--many of the lines actually are very rhythmical and reminiscent of Reilly's approach with rhythms and abstractions! There are one or two drawings in here that are very similar to stuff I have seen from Fred Fixler or his students. I also see many similarities in the hand and foot constructions presented i na couple drawings here as in Hogarth's books. I would love it if someone trained fully in the Reilly discipline could take a look at these and comment a bit.

    I won't comment on these individually as before, but I chose ones that either A) are studies in construction, B) are just very nice drawings, C) are examples of quick sketch and either just linear with no construction or are showing how they will stylize it/make it graphic. I found there were more drawings from this school that used construction in their methods instead of as a tool to help understand things. Also worth noting is that there were many architectural drawings they did that were very precise and the perspective was carefully drawn through with the architecture constructed, but I did not include those images. There also were many studies of building and such that were done rapidly but were HIGHLY stylized and very different from what is presented here. I think many of the schools are worried of not having any expression/individuality in their students, so make them explore different styles.

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    "Complacency is the womb of mediocrity. " -- Jason Manley

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  3. #28
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    You guys might want to take a look at this thread
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=160487

    for a big discussion on the differences between construction vs optical approaches.
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    Glenn's drawing 101 and pretty much everything you're ever gonna need when it comes to drawing.
    http://www.proko.com/drawing-demo-glenn-vilppu/
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    Tks Andrew for the images and commentary! That was a total eye opener, since most of what beginners like us usually feast our eyes on nowadays are mostly always American-style drawings from the usual suspects like Art Center, Art Students League, Renaissance drawings, Watts etc. I think the Russians probably learnt construction early on during the training, then somehow internalize it really fast (without needing 50 years of practice) and am able to draw without construction.

    @ Cola73: Tks for the link! In the previous episode where Proko interviews Vilppu, during the end of the video, I was so shocked when I heard someone like Marshall Vandruff asking Vilppu something like "how do you get the proportions so close to the final drawing during the gesture phase?" LOL Then Vilppu mention about the blind contour drawing thing, I believe, though he didn't use the term.
    I'm starting to really see the power behind that exercise (now, Betty Edwards' blind contour exercise is right after all LOL)

    The vid from Cola reveals many things I didn't knew about Vilppu previously despite having over 30 of his vids LOL

    08:40 : this is the first time I see Vilppu doing a direct drawing without any construction, and he makes it look so fast and easy! And I don't believe there's even a model in that vid! Someone need to setup an altar for this guy.
    11:33: WTF was that!! The guy uses almost 1 - 2 fast lines to draw the contour from the trapezius to arm!!!! Mileage? It's more like inborn God-mode! Vilppustore needs to launch more Vilppu t-shirts so that more of us can buy them.
    11:50: 1 - 2 line from trapezius to the end of lower forearm????
    Last edited by Xeon_OND; September 20th, 2013 at 11:06 PM.
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  6. #31
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    @Xeon, glad you find it useful.
    08:40 : this is the first time I see Vilppu doing a direct drawing without any construction, and he makes it look so fast and easy! And I don't believe there's even a model in that vid! Someone need to setup an altar for this guy.
    11:33: WTF was that!! The guy uses almost 1 - 2 fast lines to draw the contour from the trapezius to arm!!!! Mileage? It's more like inborn God-mode! Vilppustore needs to launch more Vilppu t-shirts so that more of us can buy them.
    11:50: 1 - 2 line from trapezius to the end of lower forearm????
    I think you look too much into things that Glenn doesn't give a second thought about, having 50 years of drawing experience.

    The essence of his lesson, are three things; planar form flow (2D), space (3D) and how to put them together, i.e. not having them collide too much and everything else in the video is irrelevant.
    (planar form flow is easy since we've been introduced to it when we learned to read/write, but space takes drawing from life and any form of 2D reference, like a 3D model on the 2D monitor, unfortunately won't cut it)
    So one should draw having these three things in mind and 'follow' the subject strictly, 'transform' it to one's personal preference while still maintaining subject correlation and 'repeat', further transforming existing transformation.
    This is the only way to build your own 'style' and being relaxed is perhaps the most important thing, since any sort of awkwardness while working shuts your receptors down, effectively denying you essential 'follow' and 'transform' steps.
    (note that Glenn's video predominantly dealing with the first step ('follow'), gives a few hints of 'transformation' too)

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Cola73; September 21st, 2013 at 04:18 AM.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon_OND View Post
    @ Cola73: Tks for the link! In the previous episode where Proko interviews Vilppu, during the end of the video, I was so shocked when I heard someone like Marshall Vandruff asking Vilppu something like "how do you get the proportions so close to the final drawing during the gesture phase?" LOL Then Vilppu mention about the blind contour drawing thing, I believe, though he didn't use the term.
    I'm starting to really see the power behind that exercise (now, Betty Edwards' blind contour exercise is right after all LOL)
    I don't see how blind contours cf Nicolaides are going to help you with proportions, as it involves drawing blind for, possibly, hours, without proper feedback. It it is not going to help your eye or muscles, other than the realisation afterward that something is off. As I see it, blind contours is all about line quality.
    Grinnikend door het leven...
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cola73 View Post
    Glenn's drawing 101 and pretty much everything you're ever gonna need when it comes to drawing.
    http://www.proko.com/drawing-demo-glenn-vilppu/
    That is a little misleading: the video is the conclusion of a life-long learning process. In this video, Vilppu uses construction, line quality, sense of proportion, anatomy, modelling, without even hinting at how to develop these prerequisites. It is a bit like watching the winner of a marathon finishing, and suggesting that throwing your arms up in the air and throwing yourself through a ribbon is pretty much everything you're ever gonna need when it comes to running.
    Grinnikend door het leven...
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    Quote Originally Posted by eezacque@xs4all.nl View Post
    That is a little misleading...
    What Glenn demonstrates in the video is classical drawing, a thing the student must master in order to complete the first year on an Academy of fine arts and I guess Glenn drew (more or less) like this when he was 20, or so.
    However, for the vast majority of illustrating work the people are interested in here this is more than enough, so I commented in that sense.
    Of course, there's much more to drawing than this video, but I think that's an entirely different topic.
    Last edited by Cola73; September 21st, 2013 at 10:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Sonea View Post
    Do not buy his Complete Guide to Drawing from Life, it is a mash up of his other books but missing a lot of diagrams and the order it is put in does not progress well.
    Dunno what you mean ... I'm putting it to great use:

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    But seriously, folks. I'm planning on making my way through it someday.
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  12. #37
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    Thanks for the video of Vilppu. I found it interesting to watch, but not a whole lot can be taken from it I don't think. I have to agree with one of the comments on the video page that speaks a bit critically of it. I enjoyed the interview with Vilppu that Stan did also though.

    Mihail: Cool to see a student posting on DA! I think that some aspects of his work are a bit weak (painting, narrative, composition etc). But a few of his drawings are quite stunning. Also worth noting is that he mentions how long some took--the highly finished drawings are usually 15 to 20 hours, as opposed to some ateliers in the west doing much longer studies.

    diamandis: Hahaha! That is hilarious I usually put my tablet on my lap though when I paint, guess I'm a bit weird!


    Alright I feel a bit bad filling this thread with all these drawings from the Russian tradition, but I truly love this stuff and want to share. Maybe it is making the thread too lopsided though--later this week I will try to add more other stuff, or perhaps try to find more of the quicksketches from the Russians since they are quite different from the long poses I have been posting. Not sure when I will have time to find/organize the images and write stuff up on it though...

    Here are just a few examples from the Repin Academy that I thought were nicely executed... I could comment on each one but I don't think anyone cares too much on what I have to say anyways haha, just enjoy with your eyes and minds. I also threw in an image of a bunch of student works together, it shows that the level of each student is consistently high, and also based on the viewpoints of the images it shows how closely packed in the room everyone is.
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  13. #38
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    Thank you for all these drawings Andrew. They are truly Amazing. The russian way is great, no doubt. Their drawings are so strong.

    I am very interested in drawings from the Baron stieglitz school, its the one they refer to as mukhina in the realism vs Construction-thread right? I really love the look of those drawings. If you have more and can find the time to post them please do so.

    Continuing on the russians, according to the other thread there is a school who teaches classical drawing in Denmark. There teachings are said to be based on Boris Kazakov. He was educated at Repin but taught at Mukhina. His student Artem Alexev, who was also a student of the Repin school, teaches/taught at The drawing Academy in Denmark. Im planning to go there in a few years. See this map from the realism vs Construction thread created by ca user Rasme, all credit to him/her.

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    I Believe these are all drawings done in this manner by a danish guy.

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    Thanks for sharing guys! These constructive drawings are so incredibly alive and so strong. I'm really in awe at how skilled these artists are and what knowledge they have.

    I had the honor of attending a 3 day figuredrawing course with Vilppu 2 years ago. If you ever get the chance to do so you should. It felt like I learned more during those 3 days than I had during the whole year before that.

    Disegnia, cool to see someone with the same interest of learning construction. I've had my eyes on both the drawing academy in Denmark as well as Ilya Repin academy though they're both something I'm considering doing in the future.

    Also, I can warmly recommend the drawing book from Repin academy. It's completely in russian but you get an english pdf with it when you order it, and the customer service is incredible. Really good. The principles it teaches are the same as discussed in this thread, although the drawings seem a bit more simplistic in their execution compared to the finished drawings shown here. The one's here being one step more rendered and detailed. Though I think it's a choice they made, to keep the reference images easier to understand and work with.

    http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-D.../dp/5903733018
    I recommend you order it from their website and not Amazon if anyone wants to buy it.

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