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Thread: America and the need to own a weapon

  1. #131
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    As the future progresses, individuals are going to have more and more power to do harm. Homemade guns via 3D printers are just a tip of the iceberg. personal drones are just part of it. Here's something from Michio Kaku to think about. It makes you realize that, yes, some regulations and limits are necessary if we don't want total chaos.

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  3. #132
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    Oh my. You just generate too much noise for focused discussion. Just to clarify; I'm not American and I hate guns. Banning them would accomplish nothing though, except chipping away from individual rights versus powers that be. Same as banning drugs accomplished nothing but criminalizing people. I doubt that introducing more repression is a good way to cure sick society.

    I fully understand your sentiment. Banning guns would cause gun deaths to drop. Duh! But that wouldn't make a single kill urge psycho go away. You're patching the surface instead of trying to get to the core of the problem.

    Let's look at the statistics (source UNODC). Homicide rate in eastern Europe, for example, is twice as high as that in US. Most of the eastern Europe states have gun ban laws in place, US hasn't. How do you explain this if gun legality is so instrumental for murder as you're trying to imply?
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  4. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by TASmith View Post
    As the future progresses, individuals are going to have more and more power to do harm. Homemade guns via 3D printers are just a tip of the iceberg. personal drones are just part of it. Here's something from Michio Kaku to think about. It makes you realize that, yes, some regulations and limits are necessary if we don't want total chaos.
    Michio Kaku says some silly things on occasion. The DNA type writer is pretty fucking silly. But the rest seems pretty likely.
    War over environmental disasters is a certainty. It's already happening. Famine and drought are the source of many conflicts. The IRA formed as a result of the potato famine. Somolian pirates were fishermen until the fish died off due to the toxic waste brought in from the canals.
    Nuclear weapons will become more accessible as long as nuclear energy is desirable. I think wind and solar are on the brink of viability to becoming more cost effective than nuclear. A nuclear power plant a few miles from my house had to shut down because it was too expensive to maintain.
    Natural gas companies have been fracking aggressively like the technology is about to expire.
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  5. #134
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    Firstly the formation of the IRA was not a result of the potato famine; the history of resistance to home rule goes back much further.
    I won’t go into detail, although I would encourage any interest in Irish history as it is oftentimes missing from mainstream curriculums.

    In regards to the Jefferson speech I find myself perplexed at the idea that those words can be applied in practical terms to today’s society, VK having already highlight the differences, which for me create a completely difference landscape, and therefore the idea that you still require the freedom to own a gun in order to defend the family against the neighbourhood Sioux settlements is nonsense.

    Jefferson bringing to light this idea of power acting as an object of manipulation and leniency may be perfectly reasonable, however, I do not believe he had accepted that in order for his nation to progress socially and politically, more of this leniency would come from the general populace taking up arms.
    He could not have foreseen the technological developments of the 20th century, and if he had done so, I m sure he would of altered his position in order to seek out a philosophy which expelled such ideas completely.

    In today’s political arena power comes in a myriad of manifestations, therefore this idea that the population of America equating freedom with the comfort and security a firearm brings doubt to my mind.
    You have all of the political devices a society requires in order to maintain democracy, you have the institution of law and freedom of speech, tell me, where do these tools fail where a gun can succeed?
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  6. #135
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    Come on, now that I started talking statistics, you gonna go back to "philosophical" argument and Kaku's bullshit speculation?

    Let's keep this in the area of hard facts, as Kendall insisted. Kendall and Prince, I suppose you both live in UK, a country with relatively low murder rates (1.2 per 100000 inhabitants) which also happens to have restrictive gun policy. You contrasted this with US, having admittedly higher homicide rate (4.8) accompanied by permissive weapon policy. On the basis of that comparison, you've drawn your conclusion: easier access to guns causes more murder. However, according to available broad facts, your conclusion is plain wrong. Tiny dataset of only two countries you used to back your position is just too limited to draw a valid conclusion.

    Let's look more closely at the numbers. If you take worldwide homicide rates by country (source: UNODC via Wikipedia article) and compare it with gun policies per country respectively (source: gunpolicy.org) you'll soon realize that there is no correlation. None. I encourage you to correlate this data on your own as thoroughly as possible. Preferably using customary statistical methods. Check if you can find any significant correlation. You won't find it, because there is none. I repeat: check the data for yourself. On what basis then can you conclude causality between homicide rate and gun policy? Some stirred up emotion after watching a news report?

    Numbers, on which you so insist, don't back up your proposition. You don't have the case there.

    (I hope you do understand concepts of correlation and causality, Kendall. If not, just say so and I'll take some time to explain them. They are not too hard to grasp nor particularly abstract.)

    Let me just give you another example that counters this confined US vs UK argument. There are many others like it that can be extracted from the actual data. I provided the sources. Homicide rates in Switzerland are amongst the lowest in the world (0.7) yet Switzerland is known for having extremely permissive gun policy. More than 30% of households in Switzerland own assault rifles (source: Wikipedia article on Gun politics in Switzerland). Read that again: assault rifles, 30% of households. Contrast this with say Brazil, a country with standard highly restrictive gun regulation. Murder rate in Brazil is 30 times higher (21.0 in 100000) than in Switzerland.

    So if I was going to use your flawed approach of cherry-picked comparison, I could have concluded, in the case of Switzerland vs. Brazil, that more guns, preferably assault rifles, cause less homicide. This conclusion would be wrong, of course, because I considered only a fraction of all the available data. The fraction that conveniently feeds my confirmation bias. See? It's the same error you're making in the case of US vs UK comparison.

    Something definitely affects the variation in homicide rates per country. I don't know what it is but it isn't the gun policy.

    So please, next time, before starting to flame me off the bat and accuse me of bluff and dishonesty, check the actual data you're so professing about. Because it might be you who's actually talking out of your ass.
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