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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    Yep that sounds right. all other things pretty much are. we're both mature (in theory) democracies with broadly similar age demographics and wealth spectra. by banning and destroying all handguns you literally remove a big load of deaths with no other changes. its a win.
    except for people who make guns. but machinists of that caliber can make something else no problem.
    Therein lies my initial problem with gun control.
    There are a whole lot of guns out there, a whole lot of people unwilling to hand them over, and a HUGE profit margin for the illegal gun trade.
    Prohibition almost never works, mind you. And I assure you, the vast majority of those who commit most of these homicides never had any intentions of registering their guns to begin with.

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  3. #54
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    Prohibition almost never works, mind you.

    youre imagining its some theoretical concept, even after seeing the us gun ( i keep writing gnu) murder rate was 72 x that of the uk where they are prohibited. it works fine.
    the us tho has had so many guns for so long youre right youre stuck with them forever. gutted.


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  4. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    Prohibition almost never works, mind you.

    youre imagining its some theoretical concept, even after seeing the us gun ( i keep writing gnu) murder rate was 72 x that of the uk where they are prohibited.
    Good for Brittan. You guys don't like guns, we get it. That's not our thing. I don't have a gun. I don't want one for that matter. I appreciate that I have the choice though. It's worth it to us.

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  5. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    Prohibition almost never works, mind you.

    youre imagining its some theoretical concept, even after seeing the us gun ( i keep writing gnu) murder rate was 72 x that of the uk where they are prohibited. it works fine.
    the us tho has had so many guns for so long youre right youre stuck with them forever. gutted.
    Yes, well, there was this little thing that started in 1971 called the "War on Drugs" that continues to ravage our pockets and foreign lands to this day. Fueling the violence of street gangs like wildfire, filling our prisons and the wallets of cartels alike, I think it's fair to say that it was a HUGE success, right?

    There was also that thing in the 1920's, the prohibition era? Yeah, we all know how that panned out.
    Considering the other previous IMMENSELY successful attempts at prohibition I would have to say that it would be a huge waste of time, money, and resources.
    Because if there's one thing America's infatuated with more than drugs or booze, that would have to be its guns. I'm not a fan of it. I absolutely abhor guns, but I know the consequences of prohibition.

    I think you're a smart guy, I can see where this idealism comes from, but I just can't agree with you on this one.

    Last edited by HarbingerofIllRepute; August 15th, 2013 at 06:39 AM.
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  6. #57
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    Eh. The UK has two times more violent crime per capita than the US. Oh, but it's not gun crime. Yay for getting glassed in the face!

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  7. #58
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    the uk also has a different definition of violent crime leading to a distorted comparison. look it up.



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  8. #59
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    I know. Using the oranges-to-apples comparison, the UK has five times the violent crime. Attempting to impose the same definition brings it to two times. Not remembering where I read that, though.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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  9. #60
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    There is a lot of homicide using guns that were not legally obtained. if you say ok now all guns are illegal you only take the weapons away from people who are licensed and legal to own them. criminals still obtain weapons anyway illegally regardless. Its like drugs they will always be around no matter what. making guns illegal wont make them go away.

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  10. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post
    I know. Using the oranges-to-apples comparison, the UK has five times the violent crime. Attempting to impose the same definition brings it to two times. Not remembering where I read that, though.
    I compared the numbers and you are right.

    "There is a lot of homicide using guns that were not legally obtained. if you say ok now all guns are illegal you only take the weapons away from people who are licensed and legal to own them. criminals still obtain weapons anyway illegally regardless."

    its prisoners dilemma. if everyone hands them in, no one needs one. if only some people do, the bad people have extra motive not to as they can fuck over the people who do. youre trapped with them now. thats how people seem to feel. resigned, rather than free. i thought you were americans used to be you guys were flying to the moon and doing all sorts of cool stuff, now this? 3d printed guns? are you guys mental?

    on that topic i fucking hate that 3d printed guns prick, a because he is a douche who clearly watched fight club too many times and hasnt anticipated the backlash when someone shoots kids with one of his guns, and B because if that happens and they crack down on 3d printers, we're double fucked. you can print medicine with those things, which doesnt make medicine companies happy and you know what dicks they are.

    aaanyway maybe you could keep hunting and agricultural guns legal, and some sport ones, and buy handguns and machineguns from people for a good price for a while before making them very illegal. then your working with a much smaller number most of which will be hidden away like granpas Luger from the war. its a start.

    regarding crims getting guns, thats probably true, speaking of big time gangsters. for the teenage kids who shoot up schools, its not, and they would be very unlikely to get assault rifles short of robbing into an army base.

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; August 15th, 2013 at 11:39 PM.
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  11. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    ...you can print medicine with those things, which doesnt make medicine companies happy and you know what dicks they are.
    A slight digression. Making a universal organic molecule "printer" would be theoretically impossible. It's nothing more than a printer manufacturer's wet dream, or more likely - advertising.

    Watch out for that seductive blurry area between reality and imagination/movies. Especially if you consider yourself a rationalist.

    Last edited by LaCan; August 16th, 2013 at 04:26 AM.
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  12. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    I compared the numbers and you are right.

    "There is a lot of homicide using guns that were not legally obtained. if you say ok now all guns are illegal you only take the weapons away from people who are licensed and legal to own them. criminals still obtain weapons anyway illegally regardless."

    its prisoners dilemma. if everyone hands them in, no one needs one. if only some people do, the bad people have extra motive not to as they can fuck over the people who do. youre trapped with them now. thats how people seem to feel. resigned, rather than free. i thought you were americans used to be you guys were flying to the moon and doing all sorts of cool stuff, now this? 3d printed guns? are you guys mental?

    on that topic i fucking hate that 3d printed guns prick, a because he is a douche who clearly watched fight club too many times and hasnt anticipated the backlash when someone shoots kids with one of his guns, and B because if that happens and they crack down on 3d printers, we're double fucked. you can print medicine with those things, which doesnt make medicine companies happy and you know what dicks they are.

    aaanyway maybe you could keep hunting and agricultural guns legal, and some sport ones, and buy handguns and machineguns from people for a good price for a while before making them very illegal. then your working with a much smaller number most of which will be hidden away like granpas Luger from the war. its a start.

    regarding crims getting guns, thats probably true, speaking of big time gangsters. for the teenage kids who shoot up schools, its not, and they would be very unlikely to get assault rifles short of robbing into an army base.
    So we aren't that far apart on things. People want to hunt, that is a hard thing to argue against given our food supply is bull shit now, with factory farming diseased ridden animals raised in cages to small for them to turn around in.
    No one needs a hand gun except to shoot other people with and I wouldn't mind seeing them phased out. The assault rifle thing is just bull shit, an assault rifle is an automatic weapon and those are illegal and very hard and expensive to get a hold of. What people call assault rifles are just hunting rifles with a different stocks on them, they are semi-automatic like almost all rifles are. I am not for limiting magazines because they are the easiest part of a rifle to make and people will just make them that want them.

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  13. #64
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    "A slight digression. Making a universal organic molecule "printer" would be theoretically impossible. It's nothing more than a printer manufacturer's wet dream, or more likely - advertising.

    Watch out for that seductive blurry area between reality and imagination/movies. Especially if you consider yourself a rationalist."

    sounds whacky, and im the first to admit cheapo 3d printers these days are only useful if you really like small plastic trinkets. but i can imagine the chain of events that leads to a wide crackdown on potentially useful 3d printer development in the future;
    im not at all convinced you one day package all the useful compounds you need in a box or a cable and run the printer of it to make many things.
    some unabomber guy prints a gun, shoots a lot of people and waves the gun at the cameras, and all the forces who dont like 3d printers will use it to make them illegal.


    /digression

    " I am not for limiting magazines because they are the easiest part of a rifle to make and people will just make them that want them."

    well, DP ok then.

    you know tho, i bet there are a million ways to make guns less fireable; maybe it knows if youre pointing it at a peson, maybe it sprays ID water everywhere like a taser, maybe its hooked into the gps..
    another digression,
    anyone ever read Dayworld? that had a benign totalitarian government that had panopticon surveillance and virtually zero crime? most people lived peaceful fulfilling safe lives. but it was a dystopia. interesting. maybe better the dystopia you know, and maybe we wont get a choice no matter how many mags you stockpile!

    actually there was a cool short story from somewhere where a street kid finds a battlefield AI-equipped pistol and uses it to take over his backwoods world...

    " Especially if you consider yourself a rationalist.!

    ha i wish. im just vaguely aware of how irrational i am.


    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; August 16th, 2013 at 01:36 PM.
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  14. #65
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    The problem with fascism or totalitarianism is it rarely stays benevolent. It works great, as long as you are willing to kill or lock up all dissenters or drug them even more than we do now.

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