My cherry girl needs help.

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  1. #1
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    My cherry girl needs help.

    Well, if any one is able to browse the forum right now, I could use a nice crit on this. It's still a WIP, of course, but there is plenty of time for modifications and such. I'm still trying to reach a style that I like. I will have to study up some more

    The thing that is bugging the hell out of me is the frickin face. I just...can't capture the female beauty, and it's never by much either. It's usually some minor adjustments here and there when I show my friend. Maybe I am trying to render too much still? Grrrrrr.. I dunno, I have been working on this all day, redoing things over and over, maybe my eyes just need a break. anyways... I was trying to do that whole pinup style with the face. Appreciate the time for comments, thanks.

    Updated image of where I am for the thread
    My cherry girl needs help.
    My cherry girl needs help.

    Last edited by Havok Reed; March 27th, 2013 at 05:07 PM.
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  3. #2
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    Yo, reference all over dat shit. You're trying to pull up reference from your brain and its coming up empty I'm assuming. It's like guessing for artists. Get the answers. If you're going for a pin-up style look that shit up, look up pulp comics of the 1930-40s. Then find some reference for a similar pose (try fashion models) so that you don't have that stiff mannequin body. Then you have to consider how her dress will lay against her body and all of that fun stuff.

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  4. #3
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    I have been using reference. I'm trying to incorporate that style with mine, which is the problem. I guess the better question would be, am i succeeding at combining the two. And the pose looks weird because you can't see the sketch under it. The dress makes sense when the lines are visible..I'll upload another image tomorrow with the lines as well as the photo I have been using for reference.. Going to bed now. Thanks

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    I think some of the proportions are a little more masculine. The shoulders are pretty broad and she has a relatively strong jawline with a prominent chin. There are some women who do have features like that, but as far as going for a pin-up look the features could be a little softer. As for the pose and such, I think it would be a lot of help if we can see the underlying sketch and the photographic reference.

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  6. #5
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    Thanks Sid. After getting a good night's rest and a clear head, I can see what's going on now. You're right about both, I made adjustments on them, as well as thinning out the arms a little too. Here is what I did, I also included the sketch layer so that the pose makes sense with the dress.

    I also want to correct what I said earlier about the "Pinup" issue. I was more or less trying to follow the lighting and skin colors to a degree, not the style.

    Here is the link I know her skin is more orange-red in the link, but I might not go that route. We'll see.

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    What should be bugging you is not the face, it's the pure neutral gray background. Very bad choice.

    The other thing is that you are working unevenly, detailing some bits but neglecting the others. You're likely to get a picture that looks like inconsistent patchwork. It's better to work gradually all over the canvas, instead of focusing on the face or arm and forgetting all the rest.

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    you're right. I just get on the tangent of wanting things to look right as I am going along so I end up getting hung up on certain areas. It's different every time. What would you recommend for a BG color to work with? I only chose gray so the white doesn't kill my eyes. I already have a BG color in mind for when I work on it.

    Last edited by Havok Reed; March 25th, 2013 at 08:53 AM.
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    Aww man, no pin-up style? I was kinda excited. I had this weird idea that the pin up style was a series of American made canon of proportions. Notice how Loomis had a very similar style to his women, and how he uses a grid for proportions.

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    He certainly does. I have his book =) and use it to study from. I have been practicing, trying to refine my style, but there are things about the way I draw that need tweaking. So when I am done with this I will probably hit the books again and really try to nail it into my head. I can't complain though, I have come a long ways compared to a year ago, and even more so about 2 years ago. I still probably have about 7 more years of hard work to get caught up with the professionals here.

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    It looks like you had reference of a woman walking along, swinging her arms and then...cherry. Plop.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    I don't get it. You're going to have to translate what you just said. I mean, I understand everything but the very last part.

    *edit* wait...perhaps you mean...I got everything laid out and then a fully rendered cherry? lols

    Last edited by Havok Reed; March 25th, 2013 at 10:23 AM.
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    It looks awkward, like it doesn't belong there. It looks like two different pictures. Who holds things over the shoulder with the pinky and ring finger? (Seriously, try taking that pose yourself). Is the stem of the cherry pressing on her arm in any way? Why isn't it casting a shadow or making a dent in her flesh? Why the hell is that thing there?

    Sorry. Monday. Feeling cranky.

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    Lol. Well this isn't even done, and as stated in the OP there is plenty of time for changes and modifications. Now, let me explain the reasons for doing things that I have because I have this whole huge setting in my head that makes sense as to why I am going this route.

    1.) Yes, she has two GIANT cherries with her. It looks out of place because you only see a fraction of where I am at with this, and I got carried away with the rendering of that cherry because it was fun.

    2.) Why? Because I live in the cherry capitol of the world and this is going to be an entry for the festival that is held here in the summer. I want a somewhat fantasy theme to this entire piece because I live in a very beautiful area that is amazing during the summer, like what you would see in a fantasy movie. It's nothing like New Zealand, but its still damn awesome here.

    3.) Why is she holding the cherry that way and is it denting her flesh?: Before I answer this, I want to say that these are things that I have thoroughly though about before you even asked this question. Yes, it will be denting her flesh and it orginally was. But I have made many, many, many, adjustments to that arm that it is no longer draped over her arm correctly. That will be fixed. That is why there is no visible shadow or dent right now. The reasoning for depicting why she holds it that way is because, she is looking at the viewer while walking by, and her fingers are up as a gesture of acknowledgement("oh hey there"), of the audience. And yes, I can very easily do that with my hand and it's not uncomfortable either, especially when you have a heavy weight to keep that half of your hand from moving much. But that wasn't the point. The weight of the cherries would not require a full grip. It's the idea that they are heavy, her hand is there to keep the hard, rope like stem from digging into her shoulder. This is all human tested by yours truly, I just don't have giant red cherries, but I have weights and thick rope.

    Thank you for the questions, I hope that all makes sense and I hope you have a better Monday than usual. =)

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    Your base drawing lacks articulation of perspective and volume. This was carried into painting. You should go back to drawing and revise it, pay more attention to form construction. Also the perspective of the cherry is greatly inconsistent with the seeming perspective of the figure.

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  16. #15
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    oookay then.

    Went back and fixed up the sketch that had many eye sores, which is what happens when I force my self to draw on a day when I just can't do anything right. Soooo hopefully the sketch is more correct? Changed the BG to something else, for the sake of not having a grey one I guess, lol.

    Think maybe I should thin the arms out a little more?

    *edit* Went and thinned out the arms a bit more.

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    Last edited by Havok Reed; March 25th, 2013 at 03:54 PM.
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    There are some issues with the anatomy I think;
    her neck is thick and manlike.
    She is twisted just slightly to the side, yet the right shoulder is placed more like in a straight frontal view; try to see the torso(and the rest of the body!) more like a box in perspective.
    Not sure what's wrong with her boobs, but something doesn't look right, maybe they're placed too low. They're also really flat, that might be intentional but it's not very pinuplike
    The swelling at the side of her hips looks odd, it's like you couldn't decide whether to draw an ass or an hip. The perspective also looks a bit off again.
    She has no stomach/belly, it just goes straight from wide/manly torso to a very slim waist.
    I think in general there are just a lot of little places where your sketch is just a little off, I'm not skilled enough myself to give you a redline, or even bring it under words properly, but you should go back to the reference; mirror it and your image to get a fresh view (staring at things too long can trick your brain into thinking it looks okay, even though it doesn't) or even lowering opacity and placing it over you ref, to see where you've gone wrong.

    For the concept, have you tried out different poses/ideas? It does seem a bit random and like you didn't put much thought into it, surely there are more interesting ways to show off a beautiful lady with her giant cherries :p
    Ah, well, just my opinion (:

    Last edited by Theeroos; March 25th, 2013 at 04:36 PM.
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    Better! Nice firm grip on that cherry! Her ribcage and pelvis are a tad close to each other.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    Hey man, you're still having some issues with overall proportion and weight. The thing that makes pin up girls look so sexy is the pose, and the proportions and relationships. right now her arms look more built than mine and im on day 52 of p90x. the right arm looks to be in a very awkward position as well. I had a few mins today and did a super quick paintover to give you some ideas, hope it helps somewhat!

    My cherry girl needs help.

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    Crumpling up this virtual shit and starting new.... Perhaps I can actually do something not shitty? If I keep working on this it wont get better so I just need to start fresh....I'll post where I am with the new one later.

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    Ok, I have some thumbnails here. I'm going to go for a true pinup this time, I'm really liking #3, I think it would kinda of fun... To be in a field of giant cherries! But I also like what's going on in #1 and #2. If I did #4, it wouldnt be cropped at the leg there, I just ran out of room for the thumbnail.

    I'm also trying to keep it appropriate for all ages as well. Feed back is welcome, thanks again everyone for helping me ditch that last failed attempt.

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    Okay, so I decided to go with #3. Speak now or forever hold your peace! JK, but I'm open to feedback on the current sketch. Just trying to get the figure to look right before I do anything else with it. I tried doing this pose my self, but I'm not sure if it is natural enough, I found that it really depends on the object that I was hugging and how large/firm it was to hold my weight. I found that the squishier it was, I was tilting my head to the other side, leaning more forward and my hand more under my chin. But with a firmer object (the closest thing I had was an exercise ball), I found myself sitting up straighter and not needing to prop my head as much and the tilt of my head worked either way.

    I think I am going to redo the head, I don't like it. I need to capture that slight upward tilt of the chin. Oh and now that I am looking at it, that arm is not foreshortened correctly. Will fix! it looks like an arm that never grew out, lol. ohhh man, cant keep working on this when im tired or I do stupid stuff like this. I think once I fix that arm her whole body wont look so disproportional. If anyone has a good reference for something similar to this pose, I couldn't find a damn thing. I could find bits and pieces..buuuut not exactly what i wanted. What do you call that type of sitting? I tried cross legged but get the "Indian style", as what I always known that as..

    Anyway, thanks guys.

    *edit* Okay made a few quick adjustments with that arm and shoulders a bit. Still need to redo that mug, which is too big and wide. Okay, going to bed.

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    Last edited by Havok Reed; March 26th, 2013 at 11:35 PM.
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    Better than the previous one.

    Watch out for those upper arms. They'd be much more foreshortened since they need to go forward to hug the sphere of the cherry.

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    Last edited by LaCan; March 27th, 2013 at 07:04 AM. Reason: I meant upper arms, not forearms
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    Ok, adjusted the foreshortening on the arms and played with the head a little.

    Are the shoulders too wide? I seem to have a bad habit of doing that and I'm really trying to fix that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok Reed View Post
    Are the shoulders too wide? I seem to have a bad habit of doing that and I'm really trying to fix that.
    It took about five seconds to find the image below using Google Image Search. Why are you asking people to fix your mistakes for you when you could find a reference photo so easily?

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    Excuse me, but where the hell in my post did I say, "hey can someone fix this for me, because I cant do it?" I appreciate the photo, although that wasn't the photo reference I was asking about because I found that particular image too. I was asking what you call that sitting position where one leg is over the other, like in my sketch, so that I can find more accurate photos. Do NOT come in here saying shit like I am asking people to fix things for me. That pisses me off more than anything. I simply asked for a second opinion on the shoulders because I have been staring at many different images and references that my eyes may be tricking me.

    You can critique my work and tear it down all you want but NEVER accuse me of being lazy by asking people to do things for me. You gave me a big angry face with that comment....

    Last edited by Havok Reed; March 27th, 2013 at 01:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok Reed View Post
    you're right. I just get on the tangent of wanting things to look right as I am going along so I end up getting hung up on certain areas. It's different every time. What would you recommend for a BG color to work with? I only chose gray so the white doesn't kill my eyes. I already have a BG color in mind for when I work on it.
    If you already have a background color in mind, begin with that color. It's that simple, really.

    You are making your job much harder by not painting the figure in the color environment it is meant to be in the end. Color is relative, and every part of the picture makes up the environment for the other parts. It needs to be internally consistent to look good, and if you try to paint the figure and then match the background to it, you are basically trying to build a car starting with one headlight.

    This does relate to your getting carried away with detail, too. You are too focused on the result you want and you are not thinking of the process.

    A good idea would be changing the working method. Instead of making a patchwork, try to work more evenly. Paing big blocks, then smaller blocks, then add finer details, etc. - over the whole canvas. Don't switch to a smaller brush until you have done all you could with a big one. Your goal should be to get a picture that would look, perhaps, undetailed or rough, but still work as a cohesive picture, at every stage of the process.

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    I gotcha, that makes sense. I will start doing that, and begin to do so on my new sketch and see what happens. =) Thank you for the advice.

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    Okay, here we go. I went and started it like arenhaus suggested and this is certainly much faster for sure and much more fun. I haven't spent a whole lot of time on the actual coloring. Been dealing with school crap in between. I'm not sure if I want to add stockings to her legs or not. It's something I can play with later on though.

    FIELD OF GIANT CHERRIES!!!! MUHAHAHAHA! Are your eyes bleeding from all the red yet? lol. perhaps I can tone down the saturation.....

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    Me tired....here's an update. I've been using nothing but the default chalk brush for thisssss....waaaaait no I lied, I used some weird fluffy brush for the BG, but that's it!

    Should I go in and smooth out the brush strokes or does this look good as is? Opinions? Thanks for looking and/or commenting. =)

    Oh yea, and I'm still on the fence about the stockings or not.

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    Last edited by Havok Reed; March 27th, 2013 at 10:39 PM.
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    Ooooh, this is going to be great if you introduce a lot of highlights and reflections with the cherries. Make them look fresh and red and introduce tons of reflected light, like their hard candy and it will bring the design together really nicely.

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SpringOfSea's Sketchbook