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December 5th, 2013 #121
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December 6th, 2013 #123
December 6th, 2013 #124
I only asked again yesterday about the thanks button and said it should be the first thing that gets put back when things start moving again - shortly I hope.
December 7th, 2013 #125
In my opinion the entire structure of the forum needs a dramatic overhaul. You can change the skins all you want but it doesn't hide that the core structure is archaic and outdated. Yeah, there's a lot of wisdom on the site, but when you look at the home page and see an obscene amount of text and links everywhere, who is honestly going to dig through all that unless they already know exactly where they need to go. Everything is buried in a messy heap of links, ridiculously long scroll menus and too many layers of subforums. Shouldn't be happening in 2013.
Also the community needs to have a sense of unity. With a strong community a forum can survive on the barest of features. But when a community is split into a million little groups, it will die off as the one or two key members from each group move on. As the community dies off, there are fewer community-driven activities which accelerates the lack of activity. This is another reason why the structure of the site needs a dramatic change.
Last edited by Ian Barker; December 7th, 2013 at 12:14 AM.
December 7th, 2013 #126
I honestly don't know what to say after reading all of these posts, but I can say that this site is in need of a much needed makeover. This upcoming redesign should not only look good, but it also should have a good degree of functionality. And this is coming from someone who doesn't come here very often anymore.
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December 7th, 2013 #127
Anybody else feel like this?
December 7th, 2013 #128Registered User
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Thanked 5,196 Times in 1,727 Posts
Artists want to hang around smart, talented, motivated, connected-up peers. They want to be inspired, enlightened, and rewarded. And they want to exhibit their work in the best possible venues for clarity of presentation, so as to properly engage with art directors, potential clients, and motivated fans (i.e. paying fans, willing to buy their wares. Because "likes" don't pay the bills, kids.) This becomes a particularly acute motivation in hard economic times, as now. Pros don't want to wind away hours with undisciplined amateurs with endless need for hand-holding who have education expectations which rarely involve payment. And such denizens seem to have increased as a total percentage of conceptart.org's population over the last three years.
Secondarily there is an inherent conflict on this site, because educational content is both free and behind a paywall. The presumption of that model, whether one is conscious of it or not, is that the educational content that is behind a paywall is worth paying for, while the content available for free is not. I think for that very reason, when a greater emphasis was placed on the purchase of educational content on this site a few years ago, I noted a precipitous drop in pros providing the free educational content, which I presume was one of the main drivers of site hits. There was an accompanying kind of loss of ideological belief in this place. All this happened slowly, over time, but it seemed recognizable as a trend, at least to me and my friends in the business.
Another way to look at this is, if a pro is going to give away free advice, it would be much smarter, business-wise if he was the direct beneficiary of his generosity. In such a large site as this, one gives away advice on, maybe, a one-to-five basis, it being buried on a thread (in a subforum of a subforum of a subforum) that may sink into oblivion in a week's time. Since the OP/student usually doesn't even know whether he is getting advice from a pro or a clueless high school kid, the value of any advice given just seems to accrue to the site as a whole, as a community. Thus the pro and the amateur are presumed to be equally valuable to the community. This is great for the amateur and terrible for the pro.
All of which is why there is Muddy Colors, I would imagine.
Going forward, as I see it, whether pros return to this site is entirely dependent on incentives. The lure of a spirit of egalitarianism and utopian sharing becomes increasingly unlikely as the web matures and shows its true economics.
At least Icarus tried!
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December 10th, 2013 #129
I hope this site lasts forever or as long as we have the internets
Can we bring back the donate function and a store for t-shirts / hoodies ?? I would buy it.
But with donate function there has to be like a way were funds dont get mis apropriated
and the user that does donate DOESNT get any added benefits over others why you ask?
donating is volantery.
thats my 3.5 cents.....
December 11th, 2013 #130
December 11th, 2013 #131
Thats the problem with a site that started out as a place for artists to share their knowledge freely with others. Asking for money on down the line looks like it runs counter to that idealogy.
But as this site grows, there's no way it can function on a free basis. It's a huge database of information and images, along with a huge membership. Just keeping that kind of platform running month to month costs a lot of money.
Muddy Colours is great for a small group of people to share what they know, and the blog format creates a buffer between them and the masses so they don't have to deal with whatever unwanted hassle the internet throws up. But CA.org cant function on that kind of basis. It's just too big.
So the harsh reality is, this place needs financial input on a regular basis, whether that comes from donations, subscriptions, stores, paid tutorials etc, or there wont be a site in the long run.
I also think there needs to be a change in perception of how knowledge and information are given out. I see people begging artists to make video tutorials but without any expectation of paying for them. Yet these same people get up in arms when artists arent being paid or paid enough for their work. It's a double standard and a nasty attitude of entitlement that I'd like to see stop.
There's probably lots more I'd like to say but I'm kind of distracted at the moment so I'll have to come back later. Just wanted to add my two bob's worth before I forget it.
December 11th, 2013 #132Registered User
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
- Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I lurk CA from time to time (since '08), but I've been out of the loop, so if anyone be so kind and tell me what happened here? I noticed a lot of features disappeared and overall the look of the forum is poor compared to what it was before. It sorta has this "abandoned" feeling like a lost puppy. Though the crit and the sketchbook sections are very much alive and kicking.
If I ever had a dilemma or question this was the place to get pro advice. The thing about CA is that this is a place where pros hang out and post, even if some people left, there's still value of art excellence and development. In other forums, if you post something you just get "oh that's amazing I wish I could draw like that", you get those here too, but mostly it's "oh dude the arm's too big" or "the bg needs detail" etc.
I really hope CA overcomes whatever it is it's going through and continue its noble tradition of supporting artists as it used to.
December 11th, 2013 #133Website
New World Creation: Designers Wanted – Environment of the Week
December 12th, 2013 #134
"I lurk CA from time to time (since '08), but I've been out of the loop, so if anyone be so kind and tell me what happened here?"
I'm in the same boat... been away for a while and have no idea what's happened in the meantime.
December 13th, 2013 #135
December 13th, 2013 #136
December 13th, 2013 #137
December 14th, 2013 #138
Siddhartha I am not sure if you remember when CA started but it was just me and Andrew at first...then a few others...but of all the main page members who were around at the start, and actually participating, we were all just 2-3 years out of art school. Andrew was two years out at that time. There are many people here at that level now and most the younger cats can paint better than we could back then. I guess what I'm saying is that there are a lot of great people that still post around here and it's a shame to write that off I think. A lot of the cup and comers here will go farther than anyone even imagines. Those are the folks who inspire me the most. There is professional presence...and there will be more in the future. People come and go in every community...and competition is fierce for time. We certainly have a lot of work to do here to improve the place. That much I am aware...so thanks for all the input.
With that said, I have been working on the thanks button stuff all night and the issue I am running into has to do with how we restricted things after the hack, so it is time to ask the programmer for help. Will keep folks updated.
This thread is inspiring and there is a lot of great info here. I will review it in full.
Thank you. tons.
December 14th, 2013 #139
Donate button is up, as well as the donation progress bar. Some of the new mods and changes I am able to do myself, although I need to edit the template for the green donate button yet. Those changes which require extensive database changes require programmer resources, which means funds. We put up some new live and on demand classes including composition, color theory, and now female character design to help fund that stuff, as well as the donate button. will keep at it.
December 14th, 2013 #140
Jason, just to be clear, I wasn't writing off the site or its members. Just the idea that we don't need more experienced people here. Communities of passionate artists, even just students, are a great atmosphere for growing, but I was responding to D and pointing out that you improve the quality of that community immeasurably when someone who knows what he/she is doing shows up. I can't count the number of times I've seen threads that were stuffed full of misinformation until someone like dpaint or JeffX99 came in and set the record straight.
December 14th, 2013 #141
I haven't been active here in a long time. In fact I just visited the site out of curiosity.
I remember when I first joined the boards were very simple. Simply organized, simply designed, without the banners everywhere and it seems without the cliques and sub-societies. It was more open and organic is what I'm saying.
I believe the site is still education focused, but it's more about rich media and less about one-on-one dialogues and groups.
That being said, being as I haven't visited the site in a long time, and haven't been active for even longer, this may have changed. I have the feeling that it hasn't though.
I think it would be interesting if the site were broken down into a series of smaller sites more catered to certain demographics, rather than one mega-site trying to appeal to all demographics.
www.conceptart.3d.org for example
Something like that, then people could go in and be sure that when they post something they will get greater exposure to the group they are targeting for this particular WIP, study, or what-have-you.
December 14th, 2013 #142
Just donated, hope it helps.
December 14th, 2013 #143
Maybe I missed this before, but do we need 4000USD per month to run a forum? Or it is yearly expense or something else? Looks like outrageously high amount of money for domain and file server. Not complaining, just curious.
I will donate as soon as I put up PayPal account
December 14th, 2013 #144
The site is over 10 years old. It has literally thousands upon thousands of pages and data. Im preety sure its not cheap. I m also preety sure its not just for a doman name and server server, but to help keep this community running and also help to add features and updates.
Help support CA's future and your own art future, and help Fund
December 14th, 2013 #145
Does the CA donation thing support Dreamfuel as well or does it only go to CA?
December 14th, 2013 #146
Sepulverture: I'm not sure I agree about breaking the site into smaller units. One of the great things about the forum is all the cross-pollination that went on. The sight size junkies could learn a lot from artists who can whip up entire compositions from imagination. The kids who only look at grizzled space marines could stand a lesson from Bill Whitaker about how much beauty you can find in a loaf of bread.
December 14th, 2013 #147Registered User
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
I found this place when I was 15, I'm now 24. Still great stuff on here but the activity has fallen significantly.
If I were to try and get more traffic into this place now I would get rid of the forum clutter, reorganize the forums based on importance to building the community and bring in some contrast and saturation to this drab looking place.
The below image is what I wish this place looked like (don't hurt me). I think it would help first time traffic.
December 15th, 2013 #148
Wardrum that looks really nice. Not to sure about the bar right the top, other than that it looks preety awesome. More exposure of the challenges etc and news about the site at the top like you have layed out would really look nice.
December 15th, 2013 #149
Shut up and give wardrum all my money.
This is by far the best CA.O design mock-up I've seen in the last few years. Great job man!
The main problem here is that such a design is veeeeery hard to do. Being limited to vBulletin gives tons of restrictions and making a whole new design with such "features" would need a very good designer who knows vB like his hometown.
IF there is someone out there you can make such a beautiful design, then he's probably either busy or costs thousands of dollars.
Just to be realistic.
But still, getting a design like this should be priority number 1. Just looking at it makes me want to be active again because it's less cluttering.
I tried to get a handful of friends over to CA.O but most of them stopped trying to figure stuff out after a few days.
It's a way too big mess for a completely new user right now.
Sup, dropped my 2 cents, now it's Jason turn.
December 16th, 2013 #150Registered User
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Thanked 23 Times in 16 Posts
@markmaker - I just threw the bar at the top together in ms paint(along with everything else). I would picture it looking more like the toolbar at the top of blogger.
Anyways, the issue here plain and simple is that the forum home page is visually unattractive and not instantly navigable to someone who has never been here. And for someone who has been here a while we realize the design is just a shell of what it used to be. In this digital age we all have ADD and if something looks scattered and unorganized we wont stick around to figure it out. Not everyone is like this, but you have to treat the situation like everyone is like this. We want meat, and we want it hot and right in front of us, not scattered pieces of beef jerky with lint on them. CA.org used to be pure 100% grass fed beef..
I'm not being a hater, but this upgrade thing just seems like a disaster. Sites do this shit all the time, trying to add new features and streamline old ones.
Get back to the basics, back to the foundations. Figure out what it was that made it work. Yes, people are a huge portion of that but so is the place you give them to socialize. Really though, it doesn't seem like whoever owns this site is interested in the community, nearly as much as they are as making money from it.
Last edited by wardrum; December 16th, 2013 at 09:57 AM.