Help Me Please to Iimprove on This
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  1. #1
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    Help Me Please to Iimprove on This

    I am a beginner working on value studies. I found this reference of mine that I wanted to do. This looks flat to me and the perspective is off on this. I used a round hard brush. Not sure If I got the
    values correct or not. Wasn't sure about the crashing of the wave as well or the rock, mud that is in the ref., Please help me to improve this value study. Also as I was working on this I wasn't sure how
    to do the rock, mud on the right. Or the water. Any advice would be appreciated.
    Please help me.
    Thanks
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  2. #2
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    I don't think this is too bad to be honest. I know it isn't exactly like your reference, but it reads well as a sketch and I think you should start to work on some of the details. Work on a small area first and concentrate at looking at the photo and studying the shape of the rocks, think about them in a 3d way and take you time. Correct things as you go along and don't worry if it doesn't come out photorealistic. Just keep it up!

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    First off let me say good job on using a brush with 100% opacity it isnt easy but you will learn alot more that way. Now onto the crit.

    You need to pay more attention to the large forms, forget about cracks and small details and look at it as a whole. Where is the light comming from? Look at the large rock thing on the right, you can see that all the rock faces that are facing up are being lit and the side planes that are turning away are in shadow. In your painting you just have random splotches of black and white that are'nt describing the large forms, which makes it look flat. Spend more time looking and thinking about what is actually happening in the reference instead of just trying to copy the photo.

    Soemthing else to keep in mind, if you cant get the effect your looking for with the hard round brush try a differnt brush, dont use things like the smudge tool because in a photo like this there isnt any reason to.

    "The whole point of practice is to do it until you can do it right." - dpaint

    Dont trust anything i say! I'm a noob.
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    Please keep in mind that a good brushwork wont save your painting (as in general), but I seriously think you're using the wrong brushes. These lines are looking like a mix of pixelbrushes like in paint and some smearing with the smudge finger tool. If you're using photoshop, this guy here has a great set of useful brushes: http://algenpfleger.deviantart.com/a...shes-212670052
    Also, are you using a graphic tablet? Without that you wont have an easy time, absolutely get one if you haven't yet.

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    Still too much scribbling. Work with bigger brushes, don't smudge, don't add tiny textures. In figuring out values, it pays off to block in large pieces, simplifying the value composition to perfect it.

    If you want a good way to practice, I suggest you don't focus on one piece, but do lots of little thumbnails with different compositions. Practice discerning what makes a good composition different from a bad one.

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    Thanks for the advice I wasn't sure if I was doing this correctly or not. As for the brush I was using the hard round brush thru Gimp so I have a new pc so I am able to use photoshop brushes. I have started to think of this as a 3d image so that I can paint this.

    Code:
     Look at the large rock thing on the right, you can see that all the rock faces that are facing up are being lit and the side planes that are turning away are in shadow. 
    In your painting you just have random splotches of black and white that are'nt describing the large forms, which makes it look flat. Spend more time looking and thinking about what is actually happening in the reference instead of just trying to copy the photo.
    I wasn't sure where the light was coming from til element1988 mentioned about the light. So hopefully I am catching the light correctly. I thought since this is just a value study that you should only use the hard round brush which I was doing. I am able to use photoshop brushes for this which I have downloaded just now and will start using for this. Swamp Thing thanks for the link to the brushes. Being a beginner I don't understand what you meant please clarify this.

    [CODE]These lines are looking like a mix of pixelbrushes like in paint and some smearing with the smudge finger tool./CODE]

    I will stop using the smudge tool however. I don't have a graphic tablet but I do plan on purchasing one soon.

    Code:
    Still too much scribbling. Work with bigger brushes, don't smudge, don't add tiny textures. In figuring out values, it pays off to block in large pieces, simplifying the value composition to perfect it.
    arenhous why not do any textures on this.

    Well I started working on this last night before I saw these suggestions. Here is an update on what I have done so far and I will begin using the photoshop brushes on this now. I will post this again this evening after I have had a chance to start using the photoshop brushes. Out of that group that I have downloaded which brushes should I use for this. I was thinking about one of the texture brushes with various sizes. What do you think? Better get to work I have a lot to cover today with this.

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    remember the gradient in value on your picture. For example the bright white sea closests in the picture, all has the same value, while it's different on your reference picture.

    It is good you are using references, but look at it closely. I think you're heading into detail too quick, with the waves and rocks, and I think it would help you more, if the values are done correctly from the start, before any detail work.

    Start out with a big brush, then work your way down. A lot of shapes in your picture are undefined, and you can't go into details until they are defined and look closer to your references.

    Also, try avoid using a 100% black and a 100% white in your picture, until you are completely finished with your picture, and you need certain elements highlighted and darkened.

    Good luck (and good job working from a reference, it's great training!)

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    I usually use n.4 for most drawing (nr.4 in in the graphic of my link, the quadratic one). For textures - well, I think it's best to avoid using texture brushes for now, you can add certain textures afterwards but that's mostly for finishing, but don't let the brush do your work. The most important is the construction underneath - the values. Like arenhaus said, do a lot of thumbnails before to get an eye for what is a good composition and also an understanding for the values in a painting, especially how distance effects value. The detail rendering as the next step will only turn out well if the planning before was sucessful - which is thumbnail and blocking in the greyscales correctly. Someone posted a good strategy in this thread - http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...onment-help%29 (post nr17).

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    Quote Originally Posted by spanishrose View Post
    arenhaus why not do any textures on this.
    Because if you want to practice values, it would make sense to do very general block-in instead of detailed work, use a big brush so you can force yourself to think in big blocks of light and dark, and also work small so you can do a lot of thumbnails quickly. Texture would only slow you down, but add nothing worthwhile to the values.

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    Well I have done 2 thumbnails on this trying to just block in. But I am not sure if I got the values correct. I still need to work on that.
    As I was working I thought of a couple of questions.

    How many values should I do?
    Should I use different brush opacity's if so then how many layers do I do.

    Here are the 2 images that I have done
    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Thank you
    Name:  crashing waves5.png
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Size:  80.5 KBName:  crashing waves6.png
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    I thought this would be easy for me but I am finding it to be harder than I thought it would be. I am getting frustrated with this but I will press on since this is a huge weakness that I have to break.
    I will work on more thumbnails with different images starting tomorrow. I may do a couple more on this image as well.

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  11. #11
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    ... you are still trying to add textures and producing noisy results. You must clamp values together, not produce a camoflage pattern.

    Make 100 thumbnails of various landscapes using only five shades of gray (black, white, midtone, and two in between) without textures. Try to make different compositions - some dominated by one value, some contrasting, some mostly light, some mostly dark, etc.

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    I wanted to thank everyone for the input. I realize I have alot to learn about this art.

    I will do those thumbnails soon.

    will there be anyone willing to critique them when I am done I will post them in my
    sketchbook and will have a link to them.

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    I have done 10 value studies here with various environments.

    Question: Am I doing this correctly now. Also I want to know if I am blending the values correctly I am using different opacities for the brush work.


    Critiques are welcome more will be coming soon


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  14. #14
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    That's more in the right direction.

    Try to not use textures or textured brushes; you should suggest the texture, at most.

    Now do more, this time paying close attention to where the light is coming from, and how that affects the value.

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    arenhaus

    I was wondering if I was going in the correct direction. I am working on more value studies and I am trying to get the lighting correct. I will post again soon.

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    I have been working on this waterfall image that I found. I think the light is subdued and even thou I am far from being done I thought I would post this to make sure the lighting is correct.

    I am NOT done with this yet. I have gotten over my head with this and should have chosen something easier, never the less I am still working on this one.

    I do desaturate the reference when I work on it. I will be getting a few more mini thumbnails. I am looking for different lighting on the images. I know the depth and perspective is off but I am more concerned with the lighting. I will try the dealing with the depth and perspective on the mini thumbnails when I do them in the next couple of days.

    Critiques will be appreciated.

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  17. #17
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    Someone please help me with the lighting on this. Am I doing this correctly? Still working on the thumbnails. Will post soon.

    Thanks

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    Do the thumbnails first... :-) Seriously though, you can't "fix" the lighting unless you know enough to draw the scene from imagination. And the problem here is that your photo is almost all one value, so a value study will be basically a grey blur (pull it into photoshop, posterize it down to 3 values and you'll see what I mean). The greys you've chosen don't actually match up to the values in the picture. In your shoes I'd choose something like thumbnail #4 (the cave), find a picture in bright sunlight like this one http://www.nickmuraki.com/OceanCave.jpg and paint it.

    Cheers

    D'Arcy

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  19. #19
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    The waterfall photo has a really poor, broken-up value system. Pick reference with clearer distribution of values, where there are larger, clumped areas of similar values forming interesting shapes.

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    I will be putting this on the back burner so to speak, I agree with Justa and arenhaus. I will continue with the value studies that I am working on and will show this weekend what I have done.

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    Stick with simpler compositions and ref. That rocky stream is way too much to fuss over. Keep it simple and big till you have a feel yourself for how you're going to handle painting, leaves for example versus rocks, keep at it!!

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    fersteger2 I will be trying to do more simpler compositions. Doing those boats were hard for me and I know they are not correct. So I won't be doing perspective any longer but will try with some depth first.
    I have tried to do the lighting but not sure if I did it correctly. Any feedback would be appreciated

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    More will be coming soon.

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  23. #23
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    I'll just add do the value studies from reference or life, not your imagination. The one on the bottom left here looks most realistic, also the beach, the rest just look funny.
    Hope that helps.

    D'Arcy

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    Yes this did help me. I did have references for these studies, but I also decided to omit some of the ref., which I found out was not a good choice. Thank you for letting me know that some looked funny. Those two a you mentioned are two of my favorites and I will continue to do these studies. I am doing another beach scene that I will post soon.

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    Smile

    I did another beach image in the value tones.

    I omitted the boats in this image because I haven't looked into perspective. But I have the rest of the image that I wanted to copy this for the practice and to train my eye to see more of the values.
    I hope I have done that. I have a lot to learn yet.

    I would like any critiques please.
    Name:  beach bl_white.jpg
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